Mass Effect 2 is out?

[Volourn]

Well said.

 

[relootz]

So i cba to read 14 pages. What is the general consensus about this game?

Is this an actionshooter with a mind numbing story or a decent enough RPG to give it a try?

 

[Mangoose]

IMO, the encounter design has been improved greatly, a big part being not shooting Geths 90% of the game (though on the other hand the overall level design is too linear).

 

[SerratedBiz]

Whoopdedoo, now you get mercenaries 90% of the game in, as you said, completely linear levels. Awesome improvement.

 

[Haba]

Is this an actionshooter with a mind numbing story or a decent enough RPG to give it a try?

Herpa derpa. Why are you asking for general consensus when you know that you'll still get only individual opinions?

It is not an RPG, so if you're expecting for one, you'll in for disappointment. If you can stomach mediocre sci-fi with high production values, go for it.

 

[Volourn]

"It is not an RPG"

Agreed. It's an Action RPG.

 

[Mangoose]

Whoopdedoo, now you get mercenaries 90% of the game in, as you said, completely linear levels. Awesome improvement.

The linearity in overall map design does suck, but in each encounter the areas are pretty open with multiple lanes, and the enemy will push to flank you. (Side note, kinda feels like the opposite of Dragon Age). Mercenaries 90% of the time is not as bad as it sounds, because mercenaries commonly consist of common grunts, armored and/or shielded elites, heavy weapons users, and mechs. Unlike the geth fights in ME1, where it was the hordes of grunts with a few using heavy weapons.

 

[AlaCarcuss]

"It is not an RPG"

Agreed. It's an Action RPG.

I have to agree with volly here.

I can't count how many times people have posted here "it's not an RPG". Of course it's not a fucking RPG - it's not even marketed as an RPG. It is an ACTION RPG (ARPG), and a very good one at that.

It just has slightly more RPG elements than most ARPG's, and that's the angle it should be viewed from - not as a dumbed down RPG with improved action (shooting), but as a good ARPG with a bit more RPG than is usual for the ARPG genre.

It really seems like we can't have it both ways. Either a game is a great RPG with shit combat (ala Arcanum), or it's a shit RPG with great combat (ala JA2). Hmm, here's a question - would Arcanum or Fallout with JA2's combat system be the perfect game?

 

[SerratedBiz]

but in each encounter the areas are pretty open with multiple lanes, and the enemy will push to flank you.

Not entirely true for either statement. While you will find -some- areas with multiple rooms or paths to reach the next encounter, the way cover and the levels were designed do not allow for much tactical movement. I would estimate that for each encounter where you run head-first into enemies (which is all of them), only a fourth of them hold any advantage in alternate terrain (and most of these are the boss or special fights in each mission).

As for the enemy AI, I would say it happened but very rarely so (even in the higher difficulties). Notable exceptions are the huge areas like the area in which you place the cure in Omega (where some of them do flank, but it feels scripted since it seems it's always the same ones and never as squads or anything).

Mercenaries 90% of the time is not as bad as it sounds, because mercenaries commonly consist of common grunts, armored and/or shielded elites, heavy weapons users, and mechs. Unlike the geth fights in ME1, where it was the hordes of grunts with a few using heavy weapons.

I can agree that the enemies are superficially different, but combat-wise, not so much. While playing in Insanity difficulty I found that shields, armor or barriers boil down to a rock-paper-scissors thing if you use powers, or just shooting if you're a soldier.

If you use powers, there's always one that is more effective against one type of defense and you can't use the other ones until said protection is gone (fe, Warp will down that enemy's shields but not so much their armor, and Pull won't work until the enemy is down to the health bar). That means you will mostly use a very selective set of powers for each enemy. Even easier is to use weapons because, once you develop weapon research enough to reach Armor Penetration (I think it's available for all weapons) then bullets destroy shields/barriers/armor much faster than powers do. Again, this is in my experience with Insanity playing a powers-based character.

TL;DR: Diversity of enemies is shallow and, finally, unimportant because you will end up shooting them all anyway because it's faster.

 

[Mangoose]

Not entirely true for either statement. While you will find -some- areas with multiple rooms or paths to reach the next encounter, the way cover and the levels were designed do not allow for much tactical movement. I would estimate that for each encounter where you run head-first into enemies (which is all of them), only a fourth of them hold any advantage in alternate terrain (and most of these are the boss or special fights in each mission).

True, I misspoke in that not every encounter is wide and non-linear. But I would say it is more than one fourth, because the more linear encounters are usually quicker and intended to be quicker "trash mob" pacing, while the more open "big" fights appropriately take up more time. You blast through some quick hallways and then are forced to fight tactically when you reach a large room, and IMO that's okay pacing.

I've been through quite a few fights with interesting AI. In addition to flanking, some of the heavily armored guys will push towards you, trying to melee you if possible. I believe this more tactical AI occurs in the more open fights (where there is more room to move around, and your squad can't cover every lane), so I would say it happens more than "very rarely."

I can agree that the enemies are superficially different, but combat-wise, not so much. While playing in Insanity difficulty I found that shields, armor or barriers boil down to a rock-paper-scissors thing if you use powers, or just shooting if you're a soldier.

I agree that the rock-papers-scissors thing feels banal shit boring. However, shield/armor add to the toughness of enemies, so the diversity allows you to make soemwhat tactical choices in terms of target (the easy to kill but larger group of grunts versus the harder to kill but more powerful commandos). Also, don't the higher difficulty levels add shields/armor to even the common grunt? If so maybe playing Insanity negatively homogenizes the experience instead.

Heavy weapons users are strong suppression fire units, as you have to stay in cover to avoid the heavy hits instead of standing up and gunning down the grunts. You either have to take pot shots out of cover and rush him after taking out the front line, or shoot him down with a sniper, as the heavy weapons user typically hangs far back near heavy cover.

But yeah, power diversity is very weak and does negatively impact the combat. When I read about the mechanics, the class-specific abilities seemed to add uniqueness to each class. But in practice, I can only imagine half of them being useful (the Soldier's abilities, the Infiltrator's stealth... maybe, and the Vanguard's Charge). The Adept just has another redundant power, the Sentinel just has more shields, and the Engineer's (my character) drone is useless, unless level 4 buffs it a lot. Beats me why the NPC Vanguards (Jack and Jacob?) don't have Charge.

 

[Raghar]

a bit more RPG than is usual for the ARPG genre.

Like what?

 

[BLOBERT]

BRO IT IS A TOTAL PEECE OF SHIT DON'T LISTEN TO THESE FAGGOTS THEY WILL TELL YOU IT IS GOOD FOR WHAT IT IS THIS ISNT BRIAN SURGERY IT SHOULD BE GOOD FOR WHAT IT ISNT AS WELL

 

[Twinkle]

"It is not an RPG"

Agreed. It's an Action RPG.

I have to agree with volly here.

I can't count how many times people have posted here "it's not an RPG". Of course it's not a fucking RPG - it's not even marketed as an RPG. It is an ACTION RPG (ARPG), and a very good one at that.

It just has slightly more RPG elements than most ARPG's, and that's the angle it should be viewed from - not as a dumbed down RPG with improved action (shooting), but as a good ARPG with a bit more RPG than is usual for the ARPG genre.

It really seems like we can't have it both ways. Either a game is a great RPG with shit combat (ala Arcanum), or it's a shit RPG with great combat (ala JA2). Hmm, here's a question - would Arcanum or Fallout with JA2's combat system be the perfect game?

IF (ABOVE_POST == TROLLING) THEN
PRINT "10/10"
ELSE
GOTO FACEPALM
END IF

 

[Longshanks]

"It is not an RPG"

Agreed. It's an Action RPG.

It just has slightly more RPG elements than most ARPG's, and that's the angle it should be viewed from - not as a dumbed down RPG with improved action (shooting), but as a good ARPG with a bit more RPG than is usual for the ARPG genre.

Really?
Surely you mean less. I mean even Fallout 3 is far more of an RPG than ME2. Then there's ME1, Jade Empire, Bloodlines, Gothics... the list goes on.

There are even FPSs that match or at least come close to matching its level of RPG: Deus Ex, SS2, NOLF, Tron 2.0, even Bioshock. GTA: San Andreas probably surpasses it.

ME2 could easily be labelled as a shooter without anyone batting an eyelid, except maybe over developer legacy.

 

[Grifthin]

Well, My Mass Effect 2 arrived on Saterday. Had a small hicup trying to install it but soon everything was ready and DLC all installed. I've played about 26 Hours so far and here are my impressions.

Audio
The music is generally speaking very well done, I love the remixed tracks of some of the original tracks as well as the Piano numbers. Being able to select tracks from the first game while in your quarters is also a neat feature.

Graphics
I'm running a 26" LCD and I must say the game is gorgeous. Unfortunately you have to jack the anistropic rather high or you get some "jaggedness" in some areas which spoil the cinematic feel of some scenes. The game performs much better than the first though and does not seem to have the same slowdown that occured in the first ME1.

Gameplay
I like the new gameplay, The first games inventory was cumbersome only serving to be tedious while converting omnigel. You had a endless procession of items of which most where worthless. This time around the weapons are much rarer and feel significantly different from each other. Having 3 sniper rifles feels much better due to the variety of targets they are effective against. Same goes for the rest of the weapons.

The much hated heatsinks (ammo) I find works well making you choose between powerful weapons with small clips and weaker weapons with more ammo. It also makes firefights feel more tense due to having to watch ammo levels and reloading. A nice contrast to the endless stream of bullets you could put down range in the first.

Armorwise I like it. In mass effect 1 many of the armors where simply recolors of each other with minor stat boosts. You always ended up using Predator H or collosus. The new system gives you the N7 armor but allows you to swap out individual pieces for bonusses that suite you. I find it much better myself as it allows me to customize the armor to suite me (High shields and ammo capacity). The only pity is that the pre-order bonus armors can't be changed but it's a minor problem at best.

The resource system has been expanded. In the previous game there was no real point to scanning mineral deposits. This time round you can use the resources you secure to upgrade your ship, Different types of weapons and abilities. It's great to be able to focus on Either Tech/biotic/Weapon/Armor/Utility/Ship resource with branching trees. And Speaking of exploring you don't have to drive around a huge copy/paste open area this time to get to a mission area. You are droppen in diretly on these N7 mission which makes a nice change. They also a bit more unique this time around.

The skill have been overhauled as well gone are the days of weapons skills. In ME1 with zero ranks in Sniper rifles you couldn't hit the broad side of a barn despite having a enemies head square in your sites. Now aiming is entirely down to player skills. The rest of the skills have also been condesed down. You now start with fewer skills (5-6) down from the previous 12. However you can evolve each skill into 2 different types as well as getting advanced skills. Despite having fewer skills they feel much more important and diversified. In ME1 there was little difference between AI hacking 5 and 7, but in ME2 you can see a tangible increase in power with every rank. A welcome change. The cooldowns have been changed to shared allowing you to either use a ability in succession or use several abilities one after another.

Story
Not done with the game yet but I must admit that there's been some good twists so far. Many of the squad members turned out remarkably different from the Videos (especially Grunt/Jack hell everybody really). Importing your Shepard from the first game is awesome as you constantly hear or see the effects of your choices from the first game. From people that you saved, Mail on your person pc to news bulletins and gossip. I can hardly wait to see how ME3 handles this. The various areas in the game feel much more lived in. Specifically Omega. The citadel is a bit more populated and not a all as desserted as it was before. Thus far I am enjoying it grately. havn't tried any of the "romance" options yet. Maby in the next play through. The much hated scars that get influenced by paragon/renegade system can be removed easily enough if the player wishes with a medical bay extention you can buy. I've chosen to leave mine on as I makes shepard look alot like a cyborg (which you are to a extent) especially when combined with some of the research you can do.

Overall I'm really enjoying the game. The presentation is slick and just oozes polish from the menu's to the Voice acting to the gameplay. I didn't think I'd have this much fun with it but it's a significant step up from ME1. 9/10.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

ME2 is an ARPG?

You surely are jesting. Not even Volourn can still call it an ARPG with a straight face, for the simple reason that it doesn't have enough RPG elements. You guys calling it ARPG, have you actually played an ARPG at all? Bloodlines, Gothic, Divine Divinity. Compare the character system of these games with the "character system" of ME2. R00fles! There's not even a comparison possible, because ME2 only has a rudimentary character system. Like Deus X, Bioshock etc.
3 skills + 1 unlockable skill for party members is not a character system. It's cute that Shepard has 2 bonus skills for the tremendous number of 6 skillz to "level-up" but that can't be called a RPG (or ARPG) character system FFS. It's like the very definition of *dumbing down*. STREAMLINED.
Yes it's a sad truth but the presence of cutscenes, dialogues and C&C - yes ME2 does have C&C - don't make a RPG. A proper RPG character system otoh does. A dissappointment for the local C&C crowd.

The game is good. Much, much better than ME1. Not much sense in looking at it as a fully fledged RPG, it's simply got some RPG elements in it - but the story, characters and the action sequences have been greatly improved. It's a very enjoyable package that provides solid 20-30 hours of entertainment.

So the game is good/entertaining. I'm inclined to agree. Except the planet scanning which is absolutely unbearable. Five fucking minutes per planet, continiously pressing the right mouse button (ever heard of tenosynovitis in the mouse hand BIOWARE??, it's causing physical pain FFS), I only regret that I can't personally thank the genius who invented this. He should be forced to scan every fucking planet in this game -toroughly - one after the other. And then start over again - to fully experience how awesome it really is.

In ME1 action sequences felt half-arsed and sparse throughout the game. ME1 gave me the impression that it's just a giant cutscene with a combat mini-game to give the illusion of interactivity. There's more combat in the second installment and it's improved in numerous ways, from the introduction of ammo (which makes you switch weapons to conserve fe. the small clip the Widow sniper rifle has), to the AI (it isn't great, but serviceable and far from the dumbfuckery that was the ME1 AI), to the abilities which you'll finally have a reason to use (ME1 ability based classes were completely useless when compared to the soldier) finally to the level design.

Yes it's a better shooter than ME1. The level-design is much better though, no more copy-paste. Pretty varied and interesting compared to ME1.
If you think that anything but Soldier was useless in ME1 you're a fool. I played a mage and barrier (bastion) made me invulnerable entirely whereas the offensive abilities were good enough too. Being able to only use a pistol wasn't much of a disadvantage either.

The most visible improvements are in the story though. Party members have much more depth and most of the bland ME1 ones were ditched, except for Garrus and Tali. Dialogue has improved too, it's not as rigid and bland. Cunts and fucks emerge sometimes, but in the proper context and from the proper people, none of them feel awkward of forced. There's very little dialogue that doesn't have anything to offer (in terms of information or entertainment).

Yes the general athmosphere, dialogues, story etc are improved.

Don't want to spoil stuff seeing as how some want to give the game a spin, but believe me that the general premise is also much better, as are both the main quest and the side quests. The annoying Mako driving got replaced by sending probes. I've seen people claim that it takes hours, it's bullshit. I've spent maybe 30 minutes on gathering resources during the whole 30h playthrough.

I need 5min per planet. And ~30 probes. So stop the lies. If this minigame is supposed to be skipped - as you obviously did - why is it there in the first place? It would be a vast improvement to remove the necessity to press the right mouse button continiously. That's fucking annoying.

You peeps who haven't played the game shouldn't base your opinion on the "dumbed down RPG, watered it down!" crowd. The game doesn't try to be strong through it's RPG elements. They're rather an addition that spices things up a bit. If it makes you happy, consider it a TPS shooter or a story-driven action game.

Are you drunk? So the game doesn't try to be a RPG hence it's untrue that it isn't one?
It's not a RPG. It's not a ARPG. It's a shooter with a few RPG elements. That's just a conclusion, and it does'nt evaluate the quality of the game.

Anything to back that up? I recall trying to play an adept and found the class infinitely worse - when you used up your abilities you were practically dependent on your party members - and the AI didn't work as it should, leaving most of the dirty work in your hands. You ended up having to waste a lot of time harvesting the baddies with a pistol - the soldier did it much faster with his better weaponry skills.

Nonsense.
1) There are kickass pistols, dealing a lot more damage than they should.
2) Barrier makes you invulnerable. The difference to Soldier invulnerability is - if you increased the rights skills that contribute to longer duration, shorter cooldown - you're always under the effect of Barrier, if it ran out, recast it. No waiting neccessary.
2) There were several powerful offensive abilities too.

I finally played as the soldier/tech hybrid class, but never really found a use for the talents during combat, I simply sniped my way through the game.

Sounds as if this is your fault and has nothing to do with the potential of the class.
In my party the next powerful char(except the Krogan maybe) was Tali. Inpenetrable shields and powerful offensive abilities.

There is a difference between reduction and dumbing down. I believe that simplifying the character system provided an ultimately better solution for this type of game. I'd prefer the inventory to still be there with a revamp, of course, but I like ME2 option better than the clusterfuck full of useless garbage that ME1 provided.

But of corz there's a difference - it's called streamlining now. Glad you like it.

 

[Grifthin]

@ VentilatorOfDoom

You have to admit that the weapon skills in ME1 where a bit retarded. You are playing a N7 trainee - your the most hardcore human that the alliance can produce but god help you if you try to use a gun without any ranks in it. The only thing you could reasonably use without training was the pistol. Hell Assault Rifles and Snipers where horrible.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

@ VentilatorOfDoom

You have to admit that the weapon skills in ME1 where a bit retarded. You are playing a N7 trainee - your the most hardcore human that the alliance can produce but god help you if you try to use a gun without any ranks in it. The only thing you could reasonably use without training was the pistol. Hell Assault Rifles and Snipers where horrible.

Perhaps. Doesn't change the fact that they streamlined the character system out of existence. I never said or implied that the ME1 char system was awesome btw.
Anyway - only Adept had no weapon skill except the bonus pistol skill for Shepard. Adept has Biotics instead. So where's the problem? Adept plays differently than Soldier. It's called a choice: the choice of a class. In ME2 it's happy shooting for everyone!

On a sidenote: the XP for quests instead of kills is a good idea, but it would be more significant if there were any other solutions to the quest maps than to shoot everything.

 

[Jaedar]

There are a couple of no-combat missions (like 5 or so).

Personally I think the RPG system in ME2 works for Shephard. 6 classes with 6 skills each, at least one that's unique and one modular slot where you get to pick one of your companions 'unique' abilities. Fairly decent amount of customization.

Your companions fail though, 4 skills, where one is "Passive: Increases Everything" is not enough. They are all very bland, and there are usually at least 3 companions that fill the exact same function.

 

[Micmu]

ME2 is an ARPG?

Well, obiously it has "RPG" in it since the RPG Codex news/RPG discussion sections are littered with posts about this *obvious* action game.

 

[Volourn]

"Now aiming is entirely down to player skills. The rest of the skills have also been condesed down. You now start with fewer skills (5-6) down from the previous 12. However you can evolve each skill into 2 different types as well as getting advanced skills. Despite having fewer skills they feel much more important and diversified. In ME1 there was little difference between AI hacking 5 and 7, but in ME2 you can see a tangible increase in power with every rank. A welcome change."

Fuck off. Seriously. Fuck off.



"ME2 is an ARPG?

You surely are jesting. Not even Volourn can still call it an ARPG with a straight face, for the simple reason that it doesn't have enough RPG elements. "

Bullshit. Don't fuckin' speak for me, youm piece of shit. ME2 is defibnitely an ActiONR PG. It has more in common with other (action) rpgs than shooters. It may be a fuckin' dumbed action rpg but it is an action rpg.



"You guys calling it ARPG, have you actually played an ARPG at all? Bloodlines, Gothic, Divine Divinity."

Yup. I've also played BGDA, Diablo, and a host of other so called action rpgs. FFS

 

[Black]

Bullshit.

 

[Raghar]

"ME2 is an ARPG?

You surely are jesting. Not even Volourn can still call it an ARPG with a straight face, for the simple reason that it doesn't have enough RPG elements. "

Bullshit. Don't fuckin' speak for me, youm piece of shit. ME2 is defibnitely an ActiONR PG. It has more in common with other (action) rpgs than shooters. It may be a fuckin' dumbed action rpg but it is an action rpg.

Lets have 1 and 2. When 1.1 has some elements of 2, is it 2?

Lets have 1 and 2. By some previous development 1.7 is more common than 2. When 1.4 is more close to 1.7 than 1, is it 2?

Shooters evolved as well. They are no longer games with as simple game play as point a gun on an opponent's head.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Bullshit. Don't fuckin' speak for me, youm piece of shit. ME2 is defibnitely an ActiONR PG. It has more in common with other (action) rpgs than shooters. It may be a fuckin' dumbed action rpg but it is an action rpg.

No it is not. And you know it. ME3 will be even more streamlined, remember the article where the shooter crowd lamented it still contains too many RPG elements? Stop lying to yourself, even ME1 was pretty simplified for an ActionRPG already and ME2 just crossed the line.

 

[Gay-Lussac]

BRO IT IS A TOTAL PEECE OF SHIT DON'T LISTEN TO THESE FAGGOTS THEY WILL TELL YOU IT IS GOOD FOR WHAT IT IS THIS ISNT BRIAN SURGERY IT SHOULD BE GOOD FOR WHAT IT ISNT AS WELL