Fuck it, I'm coming out: I actually liked DA2

[Smiffy]

Most of the cutscenes in the game are dialogue-based or set up a quest. I can't remember many cutscenes with battles and "awesome" stuff other than the finishing moves after a boss battle (the finishing moves of DAO are now placed in a cutscene). I had no problem with them. I will say this though: the prologue is definitely the weakest part of the game.

I have watched a couple of scenes but I'm particularly referring to this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z30MsqBGfT8, as far as I understand a very central one.
What I found particularly bad was:

i) How Hawke and his gang enter the hall. This is what I meant with "aimed at inspiring awe and awe only".
ii) How that girl with the book enters the hall. Same thing.

Even Jean Claude Van Damme might have found these two scenes a bit "too much", but apart from their overly pompous nature they fail in a dramaturgical aspect: The way Hawke and his gang enter the scene you have no doubt at all - not for one second - that his actions will be the single deciding factor. And most obviously he is there to save the day. And he will. And you know it.

Consequently a feeling of insecurity or nervousness or tension or what the hell ever a player might experience when facing such a presumably dangerous foe in a presumably important scene, is being sacrificed for the sake of stroking his ego. And in doing that the whole plot more or less becomes redundant.

For me the whole game seems to consist of nothing more than a series of manipulations. You are supposed to:

- Hate the villains
- Love the cutie
- Feel the romance
- Feel the awesome
- Laugh at the jokes
- Cry at the tragedies

And all this seems to be "implemented", as if ticking these points off of a checklist. I don't know.

 

[Mastermind]

Consequently a feeling of insecurity or nervousness or tension or what the hell ever a player might experience when facing such a presumably dangerous foe in a presumably important scene, is being sacrificed for the sake of stroking his ego.

"I see the stories they tell of Grey Warden endurance are not exaggerated."

Stroking the player's ego is pretty much the underlying philosophy of the franchise. Unless you're a heterosexual male.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

For me the whole game seems to consist of nothing more than a series of manipulations. You are supposed to:

- Hate the villains
- Love the cutie
- Feel the romance
- Feel the awesome
- Laugh at the jokes
- Cry at the tragedies

And all this seems to be "implemented", as if ticking these points off of a checklist. I don't know.

Most stories are like that, and that's not exactly a bad thing - it depends on how subtle the story is at feeding you those points. Apparently, what you'e trying to say is that it's obvious in DAII (Hawke enters a room = awesome time, Companion talks with you = romance time, etc)

 

[Achilles]

I have watched a couple of scenes but I'm particularly referring to this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z30MsqBGfT8, as far as I understand a very central one.
What I found particularly bad was:

i) How Hawke and his gang enter the hall. This is what I meant with "aimed at inspiring awe and awe only".
ii) How that girl with the book enters the hall. Same thing.

Yes, the Arishok (sp?) battle. Well, by that point in the game Hawke is already regarded as a very important person in the matters of Kirkwall, plus he's the only one to have had dealings with the Arishok himself. I feel that the entry is appropriate with his general status at that point. As for the girl, her personality gives off a sarcastic and smug vibe, so her attitude is at the very least consistent with the way she behaves during the rest of the game.

 

[Relay]

Biowhore declined to the point of no return and its games are fucking interactive movies, not RPGs. Even Oblivion makes for a better RPG than DA2. You can steal, kill (almost) anyone, be attacked by city guards, be an actual member of a faction and so on. Oblivion is mediocre but it's a true RPG at its core. DA2 is a game almost entirely made of cutscenes and press R key something awesome happens. Nothing in that game makes sense and it gets its ass beat even by games like Baldur's Gate 2 when it comes to what should be core to DA2 : in the dragon age universe, magic is vilified and mages controlled by the circles. So why can you cast magic at will as soon as you enter kirkwall and not have anyone call you on it ? In Baldur's Gate 2, magic didn't attract so much hatred yet you could get threatened and attacked by the authorities if you were casting a spell in the streets of athkatla. You had to earn your freedom to cast spells. The rule of the law was made convincing by the fact that it had a (small) consequence. It maintained the illusion of being in a virtual world. The only reason why DAO didn't fall into this trap was because you were the warden and were free to do as you please but in DA2, act 1 in particular, you're a nobody.
DA2 doesn't allow you to do anything outside of chosing a tone, all saying the same thing but in a diplomatic/sarcastic/agressive way. There is no skill outside of combat not even dialogue skills (coercion has been removed and you can't intimidate anyone in the game anymore if you're not playing an agressive asshat, which does NOT make sense. You should be able to be intimidating when the situation requires it and still be diplomatic with friendlies. DA2 thinks you can only be mostly one of three personalities, even making your character speak without letting you chose the tone at times), no true sneaking, no stealing, no laying traps, backstab became a J-RPG gimmick..

And there are still people here to defend this huuuuuuuge piece of shit ? Biowhore deserved a shitstorm of biblical proportion on a higher level than what happened to Beth when they released Oblivion. You thought Oblivion was decline, think again. This is decline. Bethesda are more likely to learn from their mistakes than Bioware. Fallout 3 definitively did things better than Oblivion, as shitty as it was. Beth aren't making RPG that are as good as the old classics but they still stay true to what makes a RPG and aren't in the business of making real-time 3D movies. I don't expect a lot from them but I know I will be playing Skyrim and pretty sure that it will be a better experience than anything that Bio makes nowadays.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

And there are still people here to defend this huuuuuuuge piece of shit ? Beth deserved a shitstorm of biblical proportion on a higher level than what happened to Biowhore when they released Dragon Age 2. You thought Dragon Age 2 was decline, think again. This is decline. Bioware are more likely to learn from their mistakes than Bethesda. Mass effect 33 1/3 definitively did things better than TES XXX: Vivec's Milk Finger, as shitty as it was. Bio aren't making RPG that are as good as the old classics but they still stay true to what makes a RPG and aren't in the business of making reaç-time hiking simulators. I don't expect a lot from them but I know I will be playing and pretty sure that it will be a better experience than anything that Beth makes nowadays.

over and over

the decline

never stops

 

[racofer]

 

[RK47]

But racofer will still be around to incline threads in 2014, amirite?

 

[Clockwork Knight]

No, because thirdworldia will be a dictatorship by then, and the internet will be consored.

 

[racofer]

Unless... I manage to get the hell out of here before that.

 

[Crooked Bee]

And there are still people here to defend this huuuuuuuge piece of shit ? Beth deserved a shitstorm of biblical proportion on a higher level than what happened to Biowhore when they released Dragon Age 2. You thought Dragon Age 2 was decline, think again. This is decline. Bioware are more likely to learn from their mistakes than Bethesda. Mass effect 33 1/3 definitively did things better than TES XXX: Vivec's Milk Finger, as shitty as it was. Bio aren't making RPG that are as good as the old classics but they still stay true to what makes a RPG and aren't in the business of making reaç-time hiking simulators. I don't expect a lot from them but I know I will be playing and pretty sure that it will be a better experience than anything that Beth makes nowadays.

 

[The Barbarian]

Conan - he of little patience and less virtue - managed to get about two hours of enjoyment from DA2. With great effort and fury, he overcame the game's many shortcomings for long enough to glean some measure of worth from the investment of his time.

Comrades, 'twas not an experience that bears repeating. The Barbarian feels no motivation to wade any further through this, even if he only managed to reach Act II. For the record, he did complete DA:O - a game he had been waiting for since early 2006. Though ultimately disappointing, it kept his attention well enough for a period.

Games, on the whole, however, have declined in his eyes most seriously. Perhaps that is a reflection of Conan's own failings as a gamer-in-transition (to being a warrior grown, and living in a world of timesheets, bills and providing for his own needs). Perhaps, however, the world of games - and RPGs in particular - has lost some of its luster. The jewels... they do not sparkle as brightly as they once did.

Time is entropy. Nothing gold can stay, as the sage Robert Lee Frost would say.

DA2 is not good enough. As a game, in its own right, some will find it useful, no doubt. They may even find it in themselves to enjoy its offerings; to sup on its various qualities with relative ease and wholeheartedness. The Barbarian is not such a man. He yearns for the gentler days of yore. Days of naivety and wide eyed wonder. In 1996, he famously made the acquaintance of Civilization II. In 1997, Conan spent untold hours playing Space Empires III. In 2002, he discovered Baldur's Gate 2 after failing to enjoy BG1, and his world entire changed.

These were not the greatest games ever designed. But, looking back, Conan is convinced... Those were great days he was living, bros. He was a jolly, green tunic wearing giant, walking on the earth with dual-wield bastard swords. The people he wasted there and then were the finest NPCs he'd ever know. Conan misses having NPCs around worth slaying.

He doesn't miss the stats, or the attributes, or what have you. He misses the texture of those games.

One day, his heart will mend.

 

[Vibalist]

wow

 

[Befuddled Halfling]

 

[Baddygoal]

DRAGON AGE 2 IS RATED D FOR DERP

 

[Quetzacoatl]

Ban Alexandros?

 

[Xor]

At the very least he should be shunned.

 

[Achilles]

Man, the Codex is full of Bioware C&C: No matter what game you say you like, someone will always think you're a retard

 

[Relay]

Man, the Codex is full of Bioware C&C: No matter what game you say you like, someone will always think you're a retard

But some games are more equal than others. Clockfag tried the old and tired reversal of argument except that it just cannot possibly work with Bio vs Beth : no matter how shitty Beth games are, they still are and have always been western RPGs at heart. On the other hand, Bioware has been steadily removing features we came to expect when we talk about RPGs. They have done so since Neverwinter Nights (the single player campaign). It's a universal fact. Unlike C&C, which is a feature mainly expected by codexers and like-minded people, the ability to freely kill people, to steal, to break the law, to roam among the land, to create your own character (fuck hawke and shepard) and shape it is something that is set in stone for the global western RPG gaming community. Oblivion had shitty writing, shitty combat with level scaling, but all the criticism you can direct at it is for failing to be good at what it is trying to do. On the other hand, Dragon Age 2 is mostly criticized for what it didn't actually try to do. It is not trying to be a RPG. You aren't free to be anything but the Champion and the champion obviously doesn't steal from shopkeepers. It's a beat-them-up with experience and lots of cutscenes. It's not more of a RPG than Call of Duty or Bad Company 2. It's what a fantasy streets of rage would look like in 2011.

I hate Bioware as much as one can because they are redefining the genre in the heart of the mainstream. Bioware is seen as one of the flagships of western RPGs by the media, and they are dramatically lowering the expectations of what being a RPG means. Being a RPG now means chosing the orders of missions and selecting from a few retarded abilities. It's no different from a BC2 campaign and choosing your weapons and customizations, or Shift 2 and car tuning. Bioware games are static, you can't do anything to the game world, it is set in stone, far more than previous western RPG have been. You could botch a Baldur's Gate 2 save by doing the wrong things, turning people from a city hostile for example be it from killing someone, even accidentally (friendly fire!) or stealing stuff. You can't "be wrong" in DA2. There is no gameplay, only going forward in cutscenes and pressing the R key (or A button). You can never go wrong by using spells of mass destruction with innocents around.

Bioware games are no longer RPGs. Their game world is as static as the utter shit that only the japanese used to put out. I would take shitty writing and uninspired, boring trite from Bethesda over an interactive movie from Bio.

 

[Johannes]

It's a beat-them-up with experience and lots of cutscenes. It's not more of a RPG than Call of Duty or Bad Company 2. It's what a fantasy streets of rage would look like in 2011.

That wouldn't be so bad if it was good at what it's trying to do.


But apparently it's at least better than those godawful jap games that are below even Alexandros's standards!!

 

[Achilles]

Relay, that is an excellent point and one I can wholeheartedly agree with. I too want huge, open areas, I too want a realistic and interactive world, I too prefer a "tabula rasa" character instead of one set in stone. It's important to note that my "defence" of DA2 is aimed mainly at the people who liked DAO but think that DA2 is the devil. If one dislikes the "Bioware RPG" formula in general and thinks that DAO was shit and DA2 even shittier, I honestly have no beef with them.

Saying that the game is a beat 'em up seems a bit harsh though. Going by the rule that "RPGs are the games where character skill is more important than player skill", I can't see how anyone would not consider DA2 an RPG, regardless of what one thinks about it's quality.

 

[waywardOne]

i don't mind having to play a predefined character; it just puts more of an onus on the plot and dialogs, something bioware gets worse at with every game.

 

[Volourn]

People who think thata re stupid and don't know what an rpg is otuside of: me likey = rpg me hatey = not rpg.

I loathe the ES series, but theya re rpgs.

DA2 is a rpg whether you like it or not. Period.

You could rate it as worst game ever and it is still a rpg.

I could rate Megamania as best game ever but it is not a rpg.

FFS PEOPLE FFS

 

[Commissar Draco]

i don't mind having to play a predefined character; it just puts more of an onus on the plot and dialogs, something bioware gets worse at with every game.

Also love your sig it's 100% True.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Even the characters are aware of Bioware's model recycling policy