Dragon Age vs Baldurs Gate 2.

[Grifthin]

You don't need to put anything into class skills. What if you just want a plain jane mage with no skills in Arcane shield tree or any specializations. Gives you a epic spread of abilities but leaves your arse so squishy. Thats what I did with my second mage.

The mage sustained abilities are like castable buffs - I still classify them as spells myself.

 

[JarlFrank]

Aggro is also slightly more complex than just the aggro skills - The heavier a characters armor the more likely a enemy is to attack that character. So if your party only has one member with massive armor and the party all wears light/medium/heavy armor then the enemy is more likely to go for the tank in massive armor. But agreed - it would have been better to have a better mechanic for punishing the enemy for ignoring your warrior.

Which is incredibly retarded.
Nobody in real life would go "Hmm there are 2 wizards in robes, one girl in leather armor and one dude in really heavy plate which will probably be hard to pierce. So I'll just hack away at the plate guy while the others, who would be far easier to kill, fling missiles at me."
It would be far mor logical if the enemy tried to kill the lightly armored party members first, and THEN go after the tank.

 

[Micmu]

Aggro is also slightly more complex than just the aggro skills -

Wow, there are agriculture skills in this pile o'crap, too?

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

You don't need to put anything into class skills. What if you just want a plain jane mage with no skills in Arcane shield tree or any specializations.

yes but what's the point of specialisations then? they do give benefits after all, so being forced to sacrifice precious spells for them is not ... cool.
But hey some people seem to like spamming a few spells exclusively. Just think warlock - the most retarded caster imaginable. I hope someone makes a mod that let's you swap the spells to your liking.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Just think warlock - the most retarded caster imaginable.

Personally, I'd say sleeping 8 hours after one or two proper fights is far more retarded.

 

[Quilty]

These DAO discussions need to end. I liked the codex more when it was made up of tubgirl.

I want my daily dose of multiheaded cocks damn it.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Just think warlock - the most retarded caster imaginable.

Personally, I'd say sleeping 8 hours after one or two proper fights is far more retarded.

Oh I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. Of course it's superduper awesome that you never have to rest to regain your spells. You can happily spam your eldritch blast forever. This is so exciting! Do I spam the brimstone blast or the vitriolic blast, hmmm the choices...

 

[Carceri]

These DAO discussions need to end. I liked the codex more when it was made up of tubgirl.

I want my daily dose of multiheaded cocks damn it.

Me too. Here, let's incline this thread.

 

[Volourn]

"makes no sense at all when fighting human enemies who should be smart enough to (like you) target the mage."

That's funny. Everytime a mage of mine castsa spell amny enemies go striaght for the mage. Even taunt doesn't work all the time eespicially when you cast a fireball and since a mage will not be able to take a lot of hits that's ok. A reveant, for exmaple, can kill a mage character IN TWO HITS. Most hevay tanks can too. And, if a mage gets overwhelmed by a spider or soemthing, GOODBYE MAGE, while a warrior could survive the attack.


"Nobody in real life would go "Hmm there are 2 wizards in robes, one girl in leather armor and one dude in really heavy plate which will probably be hard to pierce. So I'll just hack away at the plate guy while the others, who would be far easier to kill, fling missiles at me."
It would be far mor logical if the enemy tried to kill the lightly armored party members first, and THEN go after the tank."

GENIUS. Then watch as the guy heavily armed slices you to bits as you concentrate on the pussies.


"you forgot to substract the points you need to invest in your classes,"

You don't *need* to do anything.

"yes but what's the point of specialisations then? they do give benefits after all"

You answered your own question.

btw, I'm at level 14 and I already have 20+ spells.


DA > BG2

 

[Quilty]

These DAO discussions need to end. I liked the codex more when it was made up of tubgirl.

I want my daily dose of multiheaded cocks damn it.

Me too. Here, let's incline this thread.

Beautiful. :tear:

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Just think warlock - the most retarded caster imaginable.

Personally, I'd say sleeping 8 hours after one or two proper fights is far more retarded.

Oh I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. Of course it's superduper awesome that you never have to rest to regain your spells. You can happily spam your eldritch blast forever. This is so exciting! Do I spam the brimstone blast or the vitriolic blast, hmmm the choices...

Oh I didn't mean to hurt your feelings pointing out the main problem of the other alternative.

And be honest about the number of spells a Wizard actually uses. Put to proportion, barely scrapes the surface.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

And be honest about the number of spells a Wizard actually uses. Put to proportion, barely scrapes the surface.

Wizard only uses few spells? There's one tiny difference: it's your choice.

btw, I'm at level 14 and I already have 20+ spells.

Glad you like it. Not being able to ever change your spell selection and to do the same stuff over and over *yawn* throughout the whole game while utilizing the pinnacle of tactics (healing) to overcome the tactical *yawn* challenges.

BG2>DA btw

 

[Tycn]

...
"Nobody in real life would go "Hmm there are 2 wizards in robes, one girl in leather armor and one dude in really heavy plate which will probably be hard to pierce. So I'll just hack away at the plate guy while the others, who would be far easier to kill, fling missiles at me."
It would be far mor logical if the enemy tried to kill the lightly armored party members first, and THEN go after the tank."

GENIUS. Then watch as the guy heavily armed slices you to bits as you concentrate on the pussies.

Because attacking the heavily armoured warrior prevents him from attacking back mirite?

 

[Melcar]

Bullshit

-Volourn

 

[GarfunkeL]

Uh-huh. Ever been in a gang/team/company fight? You send your biggest guy to pin down the opposite side's Hercules and hopefully one or to others and try to gank up on the weakest/smallest of the other side - in the hope of killing/knocking out that one quickly, so to get numerical superiority. It works every time - unless the opposing side uses the same tactic and are actually bigger/badder/better in HtH.

Also, wasn't it already proven that some of what you say about DA combat is irrelevant since you play the XBOX-version which is totally inferior to the PC-version?

 

[Azrael the cat]

"makes no sense at all when fighting human enemies who should be smart enough to (like you) target the mage."

Oh yes, I'm not saying the aggro system isn't working. If the tank NEVER lost aggro, or didn't lose aggro easily enough for it to be a real risk when spamming spells, the system wouldn't just be stupid, it would be broken. As far as aggro systems go, it works just fine (apart from the unnecessary and counter-intuitive 'easy-bonus' aggro for wearing heavy armour). My beef is with the mmorpg-style aggro system in a single-player game, where you can do a better job of making the aggro immersive by having it correlate with risk of being damaged.

 

[Azrael the cat]

...
"Nobody in real life would go "Hmm there are 2 wizards in robes, one girl in leather armor and one dude in really heavy plate which will probably be hard to pierce. So I'll just hack away at the plate guy while the others, who would be far easier to kill, fling missiles at me."
It would be far mor logical if the enemy tried to kill the lightly armored party members first, and THEN go after the tank."

GENIUS. Then watch as the guy heavily armed slices you to bits as you concentrate on the pussies.

Because attacking the heavily armoured warrior prevents him from attacking back mirite?

The problem isn't that the enemy is attacking the tank - that's needed so that you can have 'front line v back line' tactics and so that warriors aren't obsolete. The problem is that mmorpg aggro is a really counterintuitive way of making that happen. You want a system where the enemy STILL attacks the tank most of the time, but does so because the in-game mechanics would punish it for not doing so. THAT'S the problem: that aggro systems seem like the computer's LARPing rather than strategising - you want the computer to attack the tank because the tank will pwn him with snares and Attacks of Opportunity for running past and ignoring him.

 

[TNO]

The problem isn't that the enemy is attacking the tank - that's needed so that you can have 'front line v back line' tactics and so that warriors aren't obsolete. The problem is that mmorpg aggro is a really counterintuitive way of making that happen. You want a system where the enemy STILL attacks the tank most of the time, but does so because the in-game mechanics would punish it for not doing so. THAT'S the problem: that aggro systems seem like the computer's LARPing rather than strategising - you want the computer to attack the tank because the tank will pwn him with snares and Attacks of Opportunity for running past and ignoring him.

This.

Aggro mechanics are generally a bit silly, especially the 'give the designated tank dubious ways of drawing aggro.' The computer isn't even LARPing here, it is giving wholly implausible mechanics to stop the AI doing what is obvious - sending a couple of guys (as you tend to outnumber) around the back to kill the mage spamming AoE hell as quickly as possible. I'd far rather fighters being lethal and deadly at hand-to-hand, and so the enemy mobs him because that's the best chance he has to win.

The main problem is having magic users being very big glass cannons. In most systems mages become OP as fuck past about mid level, because most systems of magic progression aren't linear but geometric. So they get balanced by being weak and easy to kill field artillery (not that this works, as they often get defensive/combat buffs.) Given usually you can't do what real militaries do with field artilery (keep them at the back, have a load of dudes in front to stop any enemy dudes killing them) you need something like Aggro.

I would rather magic stuff not be a special sort or ranged attack. I don't recall Merlin or Gandalf fireballing their opponents. Give magic subtler and generally less combative roles, and perhaps let magic users be not wholly ineffective in a fight. Make it so that magic attacks can't be launched regularly in each fight, but are a rare and carefully marshalled quality which can only be called upon in the most desperate circumstances. With this, mages stop becoming the scariest thing in your party, and it makes much more sense for enemy mobs to try and kill what is - namely, the fighters.

But given how combat magic is the easiest to realise in a computer game, I can dream on.

 

[Stalin]

Both overrated

 

[Grifthin]

And be honest about the number of spells a Wizard actually uses. Put to proportion, barely scrapes the surface.

Wizard only uses few spells? There's one tiny difference: it's your choice.

btw, I'm at level 14 and I already have 20+ spells.

Glad you like it. Not being able to ever change your spell selection and to do the same stuff over and over *yawn* throughout the whole game while utilizing the pinnacle of tactics (healing) to overcome the tactical *yawn* challenges.

BG2>DA btw

I suppose a better comparison would ba sorceror then. Limited spell selection, cast more often.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

I suppose a better comparison would ba sorceror then. Limited spell selection, cast more often.

I dunno. I like Sorcerers. 1) a sorc has more spells 2) you don't have to take (useless) spells to get to the spells you actually want.

I dislike the whole manabased system to begin with. Cast 3 spells and then shoot with your staff... or drink a manapotion. I don't like it. But hey, since I seem to be the only one who dislikes this system, maybe it's just me and in thruth this approach is super awesome as Volourn says, and that it fondly reminds the people of their beloved WoW certainly helps.

 

[Freelance Henchman]

If we are stating opinions, personally I'm sick and tired of the D&D magic system, especially the prepared "Vancian" wizard/cleric casting (named after Jack Vance who invented it, and they used it expressly because it's nothing like any real world system of belief AFAIK). I don't find it terribly logical or terribly interesting and vastly prefer the mana based system.

 

[Kaanyrvhok]

Also, wasn't it already proven that some of what you say about DA combat is irrelevant since you play the XBOX-version which is totally inferior to the PC-version?

Inferior yes but also harder. Its true they go after mages, and low hp more in the Xbox version.

 

[JarlFrank]

...
"Nobody in real life would go "Hmm there are 2 wizards in robes, one girl in leather armor and one dude in really heavy plate which will probably be hard to pierce. So I'll just hack away at the plate guy while the others, who would be far easier to kill, fling missiles at me."
It would be far mor logical if the enemy tried to kill the lightly armored party members first, and THEN go after the tank."

GENIUS. Then watch as the guy heavily armed slices you to bits as you concentrate on the pussies.

Because attacking the heavily armoured warrior prevents him from attacking back mirite?

Missed the point, man. Point is, killing the mage in robes takes a lot less hits than killing the heavily armored tank. Also the mage might deal more damage. Killing him before dealing with those who are harder to take down gives you an advantage. Instead, the enemy attacks the one guy who is hardest to kill while those wearing no armor can happily cast their spells and fuck him over while the tank defends and is getting healed.

Attacking the most heavily armored guy first doesn't mean trying to eliminate the greatest threat first. It means giving the player an advantage by making sure the enemy gangs up on the tank instead of eliminating the mage and archer which might fall twice as quickly as the warrior.

 

[Lesifoere]

If we are stating opinions, personally I'm sick and tired of the D&D magic system, especially the prepared "Vancian" wizard/cleric casting (named after Jack Vance who invented it, and they used it expressly because it's nothing like any real world system of belief AFAIK). I don't find it terribly logical or terribly interesting and vastly prefer the mana based system.

Agreed. Hate WoW if you will, but managing mana while playing a spellcaster in it is far more interesting than resting after every three fights (the tank is taking burst damage, do I cast a fast but mana-inefficient heal or do I trust that he has enough damage mitigation to survive until I finish my longer mana-efficient one?). And no, you can't spam potions at will: you're limited to one until you exit combat.