Will PoE be shit?

[Shannow]

Shannow
Dude, if you want to ignore arguments and call things "baseless" simply because you disagree with them, go ahead. I couldnt care less how much you want to delude yourself.

Which is exactly the opposite of what I did. But I couldn't care less how much you want to delude yourself.

 

[Amn Nom]

No. I want to preface this with I'm in a complete media blackout and know next to nothing about the game's combat systems. With that said, it will have a good world and it will be well written. As a story guy that is what I care about the most from an Obsidian title. If the combat is good, then that is a bonus and will make replaying it even easier.

 

[Dormir Con Las Arañas]

the animations are so smooth that i kind of want it even if it's shit

IE looks and feels clunky as fuck after watching PoE footage

 

[Rostere]

Yeah, I must admit I came a little when I saw the arbalest reloading animation.

 

[AwesomeButton]

PoE backer here, beta access.

I'm willing to bet a significant sum (like $5 US) that PoE will NOT be shit, but at the same time I have to keep reminding myself that it will definitely not be as good as I want it to be, at least in the first year after its release.

The main reason for this expectation is that from what I've seen of them, these guys are incapable of keeping schedules.

I expect they will keep rebalancing the ruleset, which doesn't appear to be completed one month and a half before release, and it will take them at least half a year to get it about right. A game claiming to follow in the footsteps of the IE classics with an unfinished ruleset just doesn't sound serious, but I'm 99% certain that major changes to the ruleset will follow the release. I think they've made it too complex for their own good if we add in their aim (or is it one of Sawyer's crusades taking place in this game's development process?) to provide "equal opportunity" for every character build.

Ironically, it seems to me that the red line between old-school games and old-school-inspired/wannabe games is this striving for an artificial balance. I'm just pointing it out, not saying it's a bad thing. I definitely like the idea of being able to replay the game a few times and find different ways around challenges. I also appreciate the burden the team has taken on itself in order to provide this opportunity to players, because that's one of the hardest paths for a game designer to take - predict as many player decisions as possible and provide him with content that's relevant to his decision. But from all the importance OE has been giving it in their appearances, it seems like they are obsessed with the idea that the most moronic character builds have to be viable, which to me seems like a waste of development resources.

The main object of forum wars I've witnessed in the OE forums and here has been the combat system. I'm undecided on whether it's shit or not... It certainly doesn't feel anything like the IE games, but that doesn't make it bad. I also think many people who feel intimidated by the combat system are not trying to imagine learning to play with it from lvl 1 and from having 2 characters in the party. I'm pretty certain it will not feel like such a mess if the player is introduced to it gradually.

Finally, I have to say I really sympathize with the PoE team for the kind of setting they've crafted. Some guys here call it bland, generic, etc, but I think I see signs for it being much better than average, mainly because it's done by people who have had almost complete liberty about what they should end up with. Also, let the skeptics not forget that we still know very little about the story and setting. Personally, I'm filled with respect towards any developer who has the taste and daring to name one of his setting's main regions a celtic-sounding name such as Glanfathan I understand this like the most tactful way to shove a middle finger up the mainstream hacks who come up with mediocre settings and toponyms like "Frostback mountains" or "West Hill". "We're straight out outta Glanfathan, bitches!". The best kind of casual derps-repellent nowadays is apparently to use names in your lore which they won't be able to pronounce.

The approach to game lore, from what I've seen, has been very serious and mature, and I think we definitely have something to look forward to there. I also think this attention to detail will not be an isolated phenomenon and we'll also get actually interesting NPCs and story/sidequests. I just hope they release the game with combat that's too messed to attract anyone outside hardcore fans.

 

[Nikaido]

mainly because it's done by people who have had almost complete liberty about what they should end up with.

"Complete liberty" doesn't mean much when it's used by people who just copy paste bits from d&d like illithids. It only means something when in the hands, of, gasp, actually creative people.

 

[AwesomeButton]

mainly because it's done by people who have had almost complete liberty about what they should end up with.

"Complete liberty" doesn't mean much when it's used by people who just copy paste bits from d&d like illithids. It only means something when in the hands, of, gasp, actually creative people.

Just out of curiosity, care to list what have they copypasted?
I tend to think little is known about the story/setting but on the other hand I'm taking care not to read too much about it, so I may be wrong there.

 

[Lord Carlos Wafflebum]

The wizard spells come to mind immediately as an example. No clue about the story tho. My assumption is that the story will be more inspired than class abilities and spells.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I haven't gotten to studying the spells much, maybe I should. Are there illithids too?

 

[Lord Carlos Wafflebum]

I don't know what Nikaido was referencing when it comes to illithids. There are some high fantasy tropes in the game that are true of any fantasy rpg, but for me the most glaring examples are spells and character abilities. Names have been changed from their D&D counterparts, but that's effectively it.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Since it's not D&D, I'm really not convinced that having analogues of famous things present in D&D can be called copypasting. Funny enough, people are complaining more often of the opposite - that PoE is too far from the D&D IE games.

 

[Lord Carlos Wafflebum]

Analogues are well and fine, but what I'm talking is taking a D&D spell, changing the name, and calling it new.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Analogues are well and fine, but what I'm talking is taking a D&D spell, changing the name, and calling it new.

Which spell (come on, is this just over one spell?) do you have in mind exactly? What makes a spell - its effect/range/damage stats and visual effects, and strings for name and/description, if I'm not missing something. Leaving out the "changing the name" part, how can you take a D&D spell to a game that's not even D&D without making it a differet spell?

 

[Sensuki]

No, lots and lots of the spells are D&D spells renamed, with the same effects(or basically the same). Some of them have the same name - like Fireball and Winter Wind. Some of them are renamed just because. Lightning Bolt is now Crackling Bolt (why, I don't know).

 

[prodigydancer]

"Complete liberty" doesn't mean much when it's used by people who just copy paste bits from d&d like illithids. It only means something when in the hands, of, gasp, actually creative people.

So you're saying that a spiritual successor to IE games shouldn't have anything in common with IE games? I call it an original line of thinking but the real problem is it's not...

There are some high fantasy tropes in the game that are true of any fantasy rpg, but for me the most glaring examples are spells and character abilities. Names have been changed from their D&D counterparts, but that's effectively it.

It's good they copypasted some D&D spells. A pity they didn't copypaste all of them.

 

[Infinitron]

Ah, another friendly visitor from the Obsidian forums.

 

[AwesomeButton]

No, lots and lots of the spells are D&D spells renamed, with the same effects(or basically the same). Some of them have the same name - like Fireball and Winter Wind. Some of them are renamed just because. Lightning Bolt is now Crackling Bolt (why, I don't know).

You aren't saying that any game that has Fireball or "a spell that features a lighting bolt that jumps from one character to another and causes lighting damage" is plagiarizing D&D, right? In PoE's case the damage isn't even "lighting", I guess it would be shock damage, right?

Still, the spells may look the same or be called the same, but how many games have similar spells to those? And still, their effects are different because the game isn't D&D, doesn't have rounds, etc.

 

[prodigydancer]

Ah, another friendly visitor from the Obsidian forums.

Obsidian forums didn't scale to my level of political incorrectness. It's a pretty low level but they still didn't.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I don't argue PoE doesn't have spells which have equivalents in D&D, it apparently has them. My argument is that this can't be called plagiarizing. If the definition of copypasting spells is so simple, then Skyrim must also be copying D&D because it has a spell called Firebolt: http://minify.link/58f8 And Arcanum has "Fireflash":

This spell creates a ball of superheated plasma, which streaks to the specified tile and explodes.

Returning to Nikaido's original point that the PoE team isn't creative and is copy-pasting stuff from D&D - he is wrong.

I'd still be curious though if anyone can bring up an example of a spell which is more or less unique to D&D and is also present in a similar enough form in PoE. Weasel words intended, to encourage you to search and compare

Ah, another friendly visitor from the Obsidian forums.

I'm on those forums too. Actually I learned about the codex forums from the Obsidian forums, and after some lurking, I think the people who actually know about rpgs are here, as well as some other people who mostly provide fun.

 

[Alex]

Arcanum's spells seem to have been copypasted from GURPS, actually.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Arcanum's spells seem to have been copypasted from GURPS, actually.

I don't have experience with GURPS, but it's pretty ridiculous for someone to claim that Arcanum is unoriginal because it's copying its spells from somewhere else.

 

[Nikaido]

PoE isn't just copying classics of all high fantasy crap like fireballs. It's copying things that actually belong to d&d as intellectual property, with names and identity you can't actually legally use (it's not released under the OGL nor does it come from historical myths), so Obsidian did the next best thing of doing a retarded variation of everything, changing just enough to become legal while still being nothing but uninspired clones.

For the illithids, they became spider infused rather than lovecraftiantentacley-infused.

A lot of the overall feel and bestiary of the setting is just straight off ripoff from D&D. At this point it isn't just "we were inspired by d&d" but "we're taking d&d and adding funny names and quirks".

 

[Athelas]

For the illithids, they became spider infused rather than lovecraftiantentacley-infused.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clark_Ashton_Smith_deities#Atlach-Nacha

 

[AwesomeButton]

So how is their illithid called? Where can I study the known bestiary, the PoE wiki? I want to see if it's really as bad as you are describing it.

For the illithids, they became spider infused rather than lovecraftiantentacley-infused.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clark_Ashton_Smith_deities#Atlach-Nacha

Lol, "Hyperborea", Herodotus ripoff!

 

[Ulminati]

A lot of the overall feel and bestiary of the setting is just straight off ripoff from D&D. At this point it isn't just "we were inspired by d&d" but "we're taking d&d and adding funny names and quirks".

"We're taking D&D and casting Protection from Lawyer 10' radius."