WHAT DA FUCK? - a Gothic 4 thread

[aries202]

I don't remember there being 'witches of fate' in the Gothic series, but I think that the witches mentioned actually might be the 'goddesses of destiny' used in the Nordic Mythology and in Macbeth where they foretell Macbeth's fate or destriny if you will.

They are called 'norns' in Nordic Mythology and they are holding each human's life in their hands when they weave each human's destiny.

Now for the blloomy US vs the grittier European version as I understand it, you get an option use which color palette you would prefer. This is fine with me...

 

[Lumpy]

They fucked the combat while trying to make UI to be like in every other game through.

While I don't doubt that the UI is somewhat responsible for the crappy combat, I do believe that the main culprit was the loading screen soundtrack.

 

[DraQ]

So former developer Piranha Bytes is gone, replaced by Spellbound Entertainment in hopes that fans of the epic RPG genre will eventually see Gothic in the same bright light as Oblivion.

Uh, what?

They mean bloom.

 

[Shannow]

G3 ... already all the oblivionisation Gothic can take without starting to suck.

Like?

At least you ask instead of behaving like a fucking moron who is only able to think in extremes or a kid with a severe reading disability (I'm looking at you, Lumpy).
As to the question: I'd like to say "none" and still support my point (with some leeway for hyperbole) but I'd lump the focus on graphics, "easier" combat mechanics and the huge world into the oblivionisation category.
I'm not saying that they were neccessarily inspired by Oblivion. But there were cases that reminded me of Oblivion or at least its marketing/development stategy:
Gothic 1/2 had solid graphics for their time but (either I missed the buzz or) they never went for "shiniest current non-fps". G3 looks great if your system can handle it but I would have prefered climbing, low system requirements and working movement on stones...
Gothic 1/2 had the best combat in any pc aRPG, IMHO, and they changed it to a rather badly implemented clickity-click combat. A true, if unfinished, attempt to try something new (better) or catering to the "casual" oblivion gamer who might be overtaxed with timing based combat that requires more than some clicks?
A huge but sometimes empty (in oblivion's case repetitive) feeling gameworld. Was it made because they wanted a huge vibrant world full of interesting locations, creatures, npcs and quests or was it a case of "Oh, Oblivion is MUCH larger than Morrowind. We don't do games in non-EPIC proportions anymore." cock comparison?
Those were valid design decisions but that does not mean that I have to like them. In fact I think most of them were badly implemented and reminded me of what an Oblivion-fanboy/corporate suit would do to "improve" Gothic.
Thankfully it is still a good game which makes me worry about the path Spellbound seem to be taking. More of what made Oblivion big in a Gothic game would probably completely ruin it for me.
At least PB promised a more to the roots game in their next RPG

 

[GeneralSamov]

You know, it's really unfair to call it Oblivionization in the case of Gothic 3, since a lot of the design decisions made in that game left almost everyone thinking as the game was simply rushed out unfinished, rather than intentional dumbed down. The fact that the sales were poor and that consequentially PB got dumped by JW kinda points in that direction, too.

Bethesda though doesn't seem to be needing to be in a rush to release shallow shit.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Good points although I don't see them as "Oblivionization" (new word?). They did fuck up the combat, but I don't think that what they had better was much better. Gothic combat was always criticized and was rarely (never?) seen as a feature, but more like a price to pay to play an interesting game. Like PST combat.

 

[JarlFrank]

Gothic combat was always criticized and was rarely (never?) seen as a feature, but more like a price to pay to play an interesting game. Like PST combat.

Gothic 2 had awesome combat though, "best RPG combat ever" was my first thought when I played it.

 

[WalterKinde]

Yeah G2 had good combat.
I could understand the need to lose all your uber god skills at the start of G2 but getting your ass handed to you by the dinosaurs outside the first town or by the town bully was really demeaning , that taught you to play the game with strategy and not rush in swinging your blade, compare that to G3 where the opening battle is liberating the first town you and your companions come to, its a rather jarring contrast , i thought the game setting for G3 was on easy by default until i met up with some wild boars

 

[Gnidrologist]

I always wandered why weren't wild boars one of the fractions you could work for. They were clearly mutch tougher than orks and humans.

 

[Fat Dragon]

What kind of goals would a wild boar faction even work towards?

 

[JarlFrank]

What kind of goals would a wild boar faction even work towards?

Food.

 

[Kraszu]

Gothic combat was always criticized and was rarely (never?) seen as a feature, but more like a price to pay to play an interesting game.

Many peaple liked it. I don't know what is said about it on German forums but I first heard that combat is supposed to be bad on English forum, maybe inability to adjust to diferent UI is one of that USA specific thing.

 

[Argosy]

I only used that to show what I think of bloom and shiny fantasy for a GOTHIC world

It'd look a lot like this.

 

[WalterKinde]

you could have resized the pic first
Thats bloomlite anyway.
You got to look at the Beth version of bloom to see the full powah of the bloom.
Bloom in G3 is only on distant areas/targets walk up close to a target/place thats blooming and it disappears or maybe my vid card is crap :D
Your sword and the nameless PC don't glow with the power of bloom nor the wild boars etc when you get close to them.

 

[Gnidrologist]

What kind of goals would a wild boar faction even work towards?

To take over other factions, what else? As if orcs or humans have any subtle motives beyond the inherite need to fight each other for control over the land.
To hell with orks and humans. Boars are the fresh whiff of air. Go boars!

 

[Fez]

I liked the combat for G1 and G2, but G3 was a step backwards. I'm replaying it now and reliving the horrors of player stunlock with the boars and other animals (which are more deadly than the greatest orcish champion if they do their unbeatable combo), no blocking with the shield for beasts, tiny slopes or small rocks or otherwise insignificant things causing the PC to do surfing impressions while the enemy beats him to death, clickfests for duels and so on.

I still remember the moment when the great wolf hunter promised to teach me his skills...until I led a wolf into the area of his hut and he died to the first one when he attacked it. Lame. Leading wild animals into the camps was one of the easiest ways to kill people and take over the location without any real risk. It is a wonder that the rebels did not think of this. Then again, they claim to be able to hunt in this wilderness and yet the animals are clearly more dangerous than any hunter.

Only slightly combat related: You could also rob anyone in the game who showed green to you if you just hit them once, waited until they calmed down and put their weapon away and then repeated the process. Eventually they fall unconscious, you get the experience for defeating them and you can loot them. When they wake up they will still be okay with you. You can beat up Milton right at the start and get a Fire chalice that way. Same for your other companions and their very valuable or quest related inventory.

Other annoyances: Killing chickens and pigs gives you as much experience as dangerous beasts or killing four chickens adds up to some of the more dangerous animals and so on. That doesn't make sense. Instead of going out to slay the dragon, I could have just killed twenty defenceless chickens and somehow got the same experience?

It wasn't all bad for G3; I liked the idea of being able to sway towns and the consequences for stealing and murder within them (if people disappear or die then a guard will mention it and warn you or attack you for it later as a result of repeated transgressions). There are some things that could be worth looking at.

 

[Fat Dragon]

I still remember the moment when the great wolf hunter promised to teach me his skills...until I led a wolf into the area of his hut and he died to the first one when he attacked it.

Mighty wolf hunter indeed.

 

[Fez]

It was a starving wolf too, not even one of the high level wargs later on.

I think the only way he could get pelts at all was to scam all the passing Nameless Heroes into gathering them from the local towns, which he would then sell back. No one ever actually gets new pelts, the old pelts are simply circulating between the towns, thieves and fake hunters. The system worked flawlessly until one day someone decided to test his claims before handing over the pelts.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

This can't be any worse than gothic 3.

 

[A user named cat]

Gothic 3 is just a huge headache. It just seems to hate certain hardware setups. Even with the 1.6 patch that supposedly built a new memory engine or whatever they claimed, it's the exact same. Lots of stuttering, falling through the earth randomly and 5-10 second pauses when new scenery loads. This on a brand new 9600gt and raptor drive. It's like Ultima IX all over again, but worse.

 

[WalterKinde]

yes the 1.6 patch if it does something its really under the hood, there are clipping issues like floating textures,getting trapped in the ground or rock walls usually pressing jump a few times untangles you, other times npcs get trapped in tress etc and it takes a swipe with your sword to unstick them, and every few minutes a freeze and long save/load times when compared to other rpgs, theres nothing "quick" about quick save or quick load in gothic 3.
And while i am not using a 9600GT or raptor, a 8600GTS and a 250gb 7200rpm harddrive should be enough for the game to run smoothly.

 

[Section8]

I only used that to show what I think of bloom and shiny fantasy for a GOTHIC world

It'd look a lot like this.

[orstrayian]That's not bloom. This is bloom:[/orstrayian]

Seriously.

 

[MountainWest]

I only used that to show what I think of bloom and shiny fantasy for a GOTHIC world

It'd look a lot like this.

[orstrayian]That's not bloom. This is bloom:[/orstrayian]

Seriously.

I call your F3 and raise with the beautiful beaches of Two worlds.

 

[Callaxes]

Bloom isn't neceseraly a bad thing. If used right or atleast without pouring the effect on everything open collored, then it could actualy add to the realism.

http://images.bit-tech.net/content_imag ... _bloom.jpg

Edit: large pic

 

[A user named cat]

Two Worlds could be toned down though with an intensity bar if I remember correctly. But when it's jacked up, it's probably the worst use of bloom ever as it's just way too blinding from that pic shown.

WalterKinde, like I said, G3 seems to hate certain hardware setups. I've read of people with old harddrives, AMD 3800's and 7600 gs video cards getting smooth as silk gameplay. Then people with core 2 duo's and sli 8800's getting jerky as hell performances. Just doesn't make sense and not worth bothering with, the game is dull as hell anyway with worse combat than Arcanum and a very non-Gothic feeling game world.

 

[Elwro]

The team invested months of research into the differences between European and American gaming preferences, so much so that there will be two different color palates for Arcania: North American (bright and beautiful) and European (muted and gritty)

While the whole issue is depressing, this is still goddamn funny. It beats visiting geologists to study soil erosion. :D (Oh, sorry: :evil: - is that gritty enough?)