Helton
Arcane
He is aware in the sub-conscious, though. Thoughout the game he can influence a high wisdom character. I think he could have come to regret everything long afterwards.
Erebus said:Helton said:I just thought the regret came later. As I recall he was mean to Ravel. Didn't we get a sensory stone detailing the exchange?
Yeah, we get to remember the moment when he meets Ravel and tells her he has an impossible challenge for her (not sure it's in a sensory stone, however). He's definitely being manipulative but that doesn't mean his intentions are purely selfish.
The fact is Ravel tells us she killed the original incarnation just after the ritual to see how well it had worked (that's when she discovered the loss of memory problem). So the original incarnation did not have time to become a better man after the ritual. That means he already had the state of mind we find in the Good Incarnation we eventually meet : peaceful and remorseful.
This incarnation was also responsible for an amazing discovery. He found someone who told him his mind was weakening with every death of an incarnation, and who, somehow, was able to prevent memories from slipping away upon death. Unfortunately, this discovery would only benefit a future incarnation. Predictably, the 'insane' incarnation butchered his helper.
Qwinn said:... back when the closest thing to the internet was local BBS's run on 16k TRS-80s with a 300 baud modem, ?
...
Qwinn
phelot said:This incarnation was also responsible for an amazing discovery. He found someone who told him his mind was weakening with every death of an incarnation, and who, somehow, was able to prevent memories from slipping away upon death. Unfortunately, this discovery would only benefit a future incarnation. Predictably, the 'insane' incarnation butchered his helper.
Is this implying that anytime TNO died previous to this discovery, he would lose his memory? I thought it was explained that he only lost his memory after a particularly tragic death, or at least a brutal one.
Erebus said:phelot said:This incarnation was also responsible for an amazing discovery. He found someone who told him his mind was weakening with every death of an incarnation, and who, somehow, was able to prevent memories from slipping away upon death. Unfortunately, this discovery would only benefit a future incarnation. Predictably, the 'insane' incarnation butchered his helper.
Is this implying that anytime TNO died previous to this discovery, he would lose his memory? I thought it was explained that he only lost his memory after a particularly tragic death, or at least a brutal one.
That's also what I thought at first. But it seems that TNO actually lost his memory every time he died until the beginning of the game. Paranoid's diary tells he met someone who told him he would stop losing his memories after three more incarnations (not sure if the guy actually did something or just foretold what would happen ; anyway, Paranoid killed him).
Qwinn said:Yeah, Chris Avellone backed this up at some point, I believe.
MCA said:Every time the Nameless One dies before the start of the game, his personality is erased.
[...]
As the start of the game, however, Ravel's "blessing" is breaking down, and the Nameless One is actually able to remember his previous deaths up until the start of the game. Ironically, this coincides with the fact that his mental degradation is also escalating, and the longer he is killed and reborn, he will eventually become nothing more than a mindless zombie that is impossible to kill. Once he loses his will, there will be no way for him to save himself - or at least discover what drove him to this state. The events of the game is his last chance in his lifetimes to put things right.
mca's explenation is just fine; d&d stats are superfluous, they don't dictate plot.
also Qwinn should be banned because of the sig thing.
Qwinn said:Erebus said:phelot said:This incarnation was also responsible for an amazing discovery. He found someone who told him his mind was weakening with every death of an incarnation, and who, somehow, was able to prevent memories from slipping away upon death. Unfortunately, this discovery would only benefit a future incarnation. Predictably, the 'insane' incarnation butchered his helper.
Is this implying that anytime TNO died previous to this discovery, he would lose his memory? I thought it was explained that he only lost his memory after a particularly tragic death, or at least a brutal one.
That's also what I thought at first. But it seems that TNO actually lost his memory every time he died until the beginning of the game. Paranoid's diary tells he met someone who told him he would stop losing his memories after three more incarnations (not sure if the guy actually did something or just foretold what would happen ; anyway, Paranoid killed him).
Yeah, Chris Avellone backed this up at some point, I believe. Apparently, what was happening was Ravel's gift was "breaking down", and because of that, you'd keep your memory when you died, but after a limited number of additional deaths soon you'd lose your mind altogether and remember nothing. So the game represents TNO's last chance to figure out what is happening to him.
I wasn't all that thrilled with that explanation, personally. It just seems odd that you can get a 25 Intelligence and 25 Wisdom while you're on the verge of mental breakdown. I think a better way to have explained your keeping your memories intact in-game is that you only lost them when you were killed by the shadows of your regret. That would've made TO more threatening, and the Fortress -really- feel dangerous. Course, this would've required other changes. Being killed by shadows would have to be permanent death, and no more Morte being saved by you being run over by a cart in the street, for example - but I think it would've been more coherent in the long run, oh well.
Qwinn
phelot said:The only problem with it is, wouldn't Morte and Dakkon be a bit more of a threat then anyone else since they've actually been to the fortress? Though now that I think about it, didn't they forget for some reason?
Qwinn said:At one point Morte makes it clear that the Practical Incarnation didn't share any details about where they were going, what they were doing, etc. They might've been able to mention once going through a portal in the mortuary, but it's doubtful Practical shared any other details... like, the key to that portal, or what the purpose was in going to the other side.
Course, he could've solved his whole "everyone who knows how to get to the Fortress is dead" problem by telling everyone he meets and leaving a whole crapload of notes around the mortuary and Sigil, but, eh, whatever, poetic license...
I was always curious what regret Practical would've picked for his key, heh. Since he hardly seems to have any. Maybe it was of the "I regret that I have no regrets" variety.
Qwinn