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Torment and the Nameless One's past

Wyrmlord

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Feb 3, 2008
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It's probably been a year or two since I last played Torment, but based on whatever information is thrown around in the game, what do you guys think was the definite history of the Nameless One in a chronological order? Here's what I can jot together.

1. The Nameless One was a man who commanded a freighter that flew in the sky. On this flying boat, he charted the lands as its admiral, and lived a life of mapping the relief and the terrain of the land below.

2. When war broke out against the nation he served, he was responsible for leading this ship on attacks on the enemy territory. With his flying ship, he used to bombard entire towns with his canons, destroying entire scores of cities, and killing people by the millions.

3. Once when his second-in-command asked him whether it was moral to do what they were doing, the admiral broke down in tears, and told him that regret can drive a man mad. He was perfectly aware of the horrible things he was doing, but he had to convince himself that those down below were the "enemy" and not women and children. He was already a morally broken man, and could not bear himself. His subordinate was a man very attuned to human senses, and he would go on to record his experience in the war in a sensory stone in Sigil.

4. When the Nameless One saw firsthand the destruction he had caused, he was overpowered by enormous regret that was already swelling in him, and the sheer pain of it led him to becoming a changed man. He saw that he must account for everything that he had done.

5. The Nameless One returned to his home as a decorated war hero, and he commanded a high status. He thus was able to find a bureaucrat who had contacts with people of the Planes, and had valuable information for anyone who would pay him well for it. The Nameless One told him that even though he had now become a morally decent man, he needed entire lifetimes of good deeds to make up for the endless lives he took away. The bureaucrat directed him to find a powerful hag of the Gray Wastes, but chose not to tell him that no one who ever visited ever came back alive. This bureaucrat would be condemned to the Pillar of Skulls in his death.

6. He was thus forced to go into the Planes of Evil to find her. In his journeys, he often found himself pushed into the middle of the Blood War, and in a horrific experience, he was overpowered by succubi who ripped off his flesh, carving it in deep cuts that penetrated completely through his flesh. He was also systematically tortured by the baatezu, who also liked to use his body as a chopping board.

7. He finally reached the Gray Wastes in a blood soaked body and his clothes torn down to mere rags discoloured by blood and dirt. When the hag he searched for was finally found, she was touched by his predicament, in seeing that he transformed himself into a better man, and was willing to endure enormous pain to atone for his wrongs. She could not have thought a mortal man was capable of such a thing, and he was the one who could finally answer her eternal question of "What can change the nature of a man?"

8. When the ritual succeeded, the essence of his mortality departed, fracturing his mind, and taking away all the inborn regret that he lived by, the regret which contained so much negative energy, it formed a gigantic fortress in the Negative Material Plane.

That should probably cover most of the story of the original incarnation. Beyond that, as he went through endless reincarnations, at one point, he would become a masterful Practioner of the Arts, who would go on to traverse the planes, and then cheat and bind any person of value to serve him. These included a githzerai zerth of a destroyed city in limbo, a blind archer, the very same bureaucrat who led him to the hag, and a foreseeing Sensate.

Are there any more details that you guys remember, perchance? None of this was ever told in chronological order, and I am curious to sum up exactly what happened.
 

Qwinn

Scholar
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1., 2., and 3. were an experience from a sensory stone in the Festhall. There is no particular indication that TNO was anyone represented within that experience.

Nor am I sure where you got the idea that Morte was a bureaucrat in a past life. We do have reason to believe Morte lied to him in some way that led to TNO's death (not necessarily his first incarnation), but we don't know any details.

No idea where you got 6, and Ravel's motivation in #7 seems fabricated as well. If I had to guess at her motivation for helping him, it's that he was charismatic and flattered the hell out of her, nothing more than that really. (EDIT: Actually, in a recovered memory you can get, he gets her to help him by insinuating she -can't- do it... he poses it as a challenge, and her ego compels her to agree.)

The only bit of that that I would say is supported by in-game information is #8, and the paragraph that follows... although there's reason to believe the Practical Incarnation was a fighter, not a mage.

Qwinn
 

Qwinn

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No, you didn't miss anything. Very little of that first post was in-game.

Qwinn
 

Qwinn

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See that? Your observational skills are incredibly impressive. You miss nothing.

Qwinn
 

Wyrmlord

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28,886
Qwinn, I made that connection, because the original incarnation tells you that he was a man who charted lands for a living and I thought it could connect with the sensory stone experience, especially since the admiral talks about regret in the experience.
 

Qwinn

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Eh... dunno, Wyrmlord, that seems a bit of a stretch to me. From "I served as a cartographer for a time" you infer "Oh, he must've been that Admiral that commanded a skyship to bomb cities", how? Because he could see from a high vantage point?

Qwinn
 

Norfleet

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kingcomrade said:
I know you are Qwinn because I can see it on the left bit of your post
I think his point is that it's unnecessary to sign every post you make because we can already see your name.
 

Qwinn

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And that is a fascinating point, really. It never would've occurred to me on my own, and no one else has ever thought to point it out in the past. I'm eternally grateful.

Qwinn
 

VentilatorOfDoom

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There might not be a clear indication ingame for this, but you have to admit that the narrative at least gives you the impression that TNO maybe could have been the guy from the sensory stone. I had this impression at least. Of course there was no clear confirmation.
I also don't remember anyone directly mentioning the Blood War. Did TNO say: I must join the Blood War at the end? You just see some demons fighting and TNO getting himself a weapon. Could have been a Tanari grill party, for all I know.
 

VentilatorOfDoom

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Qwinn said:
And that is a fascinating point, really. It never would've occurred to me on my own, and no one else has ever thought to point it out in the past. I'm eternally grateful.

Qwinn

Why do you sign every post of yours btw?
 

Qwinn

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Wyrmlord, dug through the files to see if there was anything else to back up your interpretation (which would be interesting if it were there, I just don't think it is). Couple of small things:

It is the Admiral himself, not his second in command, who records the experience in the Festhall. It's from his point of view.

Also, during that experience, it says this:

Beneath the brazen plate that covers the ruined half of your face, your dead eye begins to weep..."

I never got the impression that TNO was deeply scarred or half blind -before- he became immortal. I suppose that after Ravel doing her thing, it could've healed those scars, but it just doesn't jibe with what we know, particularly the way his appearance changes from perfectly unscarred to scarred during the intro movie. Nah, I really don't think it's him.

Qwinn
 

Qwinn

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VentilatorOfDoom said:
Why do you sign every post of yours btw?

Well, you asked politely, so I'll answer. Two reasons, really. One, it's a habit from ages ago, back when the closest thing to the internet was local BBS's run on 16k TRS-80s with a 300 baud modem, and even the code necessary to automatically sign every post was better used elsewhere. Plus, it has sometimes gotten me better results when I have, for whatever reason, needed to do searches for my own posts (like, for example, when someone has misquoted me, and I have needed to find the original) Not all board search engines allow you to filter by user.

Now, I'll ask my own question. Why are people more curious about that than they are over why someone sees fit to have this:

Some may question my right to Retardo ten billion threads. Those who understand realize I have no right to let them live.
--
"And now I must fly," said the Bursar, "Except that I mustn't."

...appear after every post?

Qwinn
 

Liberal

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VentilatorOfDoom said:
Qwinn said:
And that is a fascinating point, really. It never would've occurred to me on my own, and no one else has ever thought to point it out in the past. I'm eternally grateful.

Qwinn

Why do you sign every post of yours btw?
College girls love that.
 

VentilatorOfDoom

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fair enough Qwinn.


I'll answer your last question with another question.
Why would anyone be curious about something KC does?
 

Qwinn

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Messages
666
I'll answer your last question with another question.
Why would anyone be curious about something KC does?

...

I have no answer to that. Well played, sir.

Qwinn
 

Hobo Elf

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I always thought that there was no "definite history" for The Nameless One, save for a small few facts. It's all mostly just vague stuff that leaves you wondering if that really was his past experience or not. But it's been YEARS since I last played it.
I should get my CDs out and re-play it again.
 

DarkUnderlord

Professional Throne Sitter
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28,358
Qwinn said:
Why are people more curious about that than they are over why someone sees fit to have this:

Some may question my right to Retardo ten billion threads. Those who understand realize I have no right to let them live.
--
"And now I must fly," said the Bursar, "Except that I mustn't."

...appear after every post?

Qwinn
Well you see the first line is in reference to the content of General Discussion where kc has moderator powers. One activity of a moderator is to move threads to Retardo Land. The second I believe is a quote from Terry Pratchett's Discworld novels of which kc is a fan. Thus both fit quite perfectly and make sense to have in a signature. Which kc only need type once and can change whenever he likes.

Qwinn said:
One, it's a habit from ages ago, back when the closest thing to the internet was local BBS's run on 16k TRS-80s with a 300 baud modem, and even the code necessary to automatically sign every post was better used elsewhere.
So you're saying you haven't actually posted on a forum since about 1977, thus haven't had the opportunity to develop the habit of not signing posts? Do you still try and insert a floppy disk whenever you want to load a program? Personally I had a MicroBee.

Qwinn said:
Plus, it has sometimes gotten me better results when I have, for whatever reason, needed to do searches for my own posts (like, for example, when someone has misquoted me, and I have needed to find the original) Not all board search engines allow you to filter by user.
So what happens if everybody starts doing that?

Qwinn
 

Marsal

Arcane
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
1,304
KC types his sig after every post. He's cool like that.

Qwinn
 

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