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New Rise of the Triad game!

  • Thread starter Multi-headed Cow
  • Start date

zwanzig_zwoelf

Guest
In a post on the Steam board, the developer says that most of the framerate problems are caused by the developers trying to be clever with an engine that is no longer built for clever developers. All the levels are built out of modular components, but UE3 is normally used for environments built of large individual models and stuff, so loading all the individual components with something called "drawcalls" is just too much for UE3's tight little anus, even though it's just the commands that bring it to its knees. It sounds almost too stupid to be true, but who knows!!!
Draw Call = rendered object. If they used Quake/Unreal-like mapping method, then engine will fucking fall to it's knees, because it renders tons of unneeded stuff, while removing unneeded stuff is a pain in the arse and one of the reasons why those AAA creeps need big teams.
 

Jashiin

Arcane
Joined
Mar 28, 2012
Messages
1,440
So it's shit. I was hoping this would be a good old school romp. Oh well, we'll stick to quake3 on the occasional lan.
 

DalekFlay

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New Vegas
All it needs is optimizing so I can run it at constant 60fps, remove all mouse fuckery and add quicksave. Would take a legit developer like a week.
 

Jashiin

Arcane
Joined
Mar 28, 2012
Messages
1,440
How can mouse smoothing/acceleration be an issue in a game like this. Doesn't inspire any confidence in the devs abilities.
 

otsego

Cipher
Joined
Aug 22, 2012
Messages
233
The game is a blast. It took a few levels, but it comes around. Hearing those pink-purple doors open up, followed by an 'Infidel!' brings a nostalgic smile. Dodging the whirling blade traps -- while easy now in my practiced 'old' age -- was fun. Finding super-secrets in the classic style (anyone find Scott Miller's head yet?) was refreshing... difficult, outrageous, with the pay-off being little more than 'you did it!'.

Flawed and frustrating in all the ways that have been covered in this thread, but full of moments that make it feel just right as a ROTT game. Those moments make it more than worth the $15 tag ($3 for me, since I conned a bunch of suckers into buying 'cards' and TF2 crates and essentially paying for this game for me).

OST is pretty sweet as well, thankfully someone uploaded it to youtube.

$15 ain't gonna get us a pretty throwback to the good ol' days -- cause lets face it, this effort is seriously lacking in polish and quality. But I'd wager any fan of the old game who can get into it and forget about all the clipping, getting stuck on walls (during bouncy puzzles... FFFFUUUU---), and voice-overs/SFX that pale in comparison to the originals, will enjoy it immensely.

Especially after the first few levels. Episode 2 is really good.
Looking forward to the inevitable fan-remake of the original game.
 

sexbad?

Arcane
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sexbad
Codex USB, 2014
Please report if the mouse issues are fixed
With the first patch mouse smoothing is apparently defaulted to "off," but if that's not enough or if they lied you can go to Users\username\Documents\My Games\Rise Of The Triad\ROTTGame\Config\ROTTInput.ini and change "bEnableMouseSmoothing" and a few other, more finicky variables (listed on the Steam boards), and that aspect should be just fine.

The excuse the developers have for all the modular components that mess with UE3 is that they wanted these components to function as a tileset for modders. While it's a massive mistake for the developers, if they didn't understand that that's how UE3 functions, it also highlights how the current UE seems (at least to me) designed against modding. Even if the devs will redo the current maps as fewer but larger draw calls, this still means that any custom maps that use the modular sets will be totally fucked.
 

Jashiin

Arcane
Joined
Mar 28, 2012
Messages
1,440
It just boggles the mind how a game that relies completely on steady aim has mousesmoothing.
 

Psquit

Arcane
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Sep 18, 2012
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Ushuaia
Lack of good boss fights ruin it for me.

I want more bosses with 3 forms minimun.
 

Zewp

Arcane
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Sep 30, 2012
Messages
3,593
Codex 2013
1gb patch out today. Haven't checked what it fixes yet.
 

Astral Rag

Arcane
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Feb 1, 2012
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- Enabled "Stat FPS" console command to monitor ingame framerate
- ”ARE YOU SURE?” When restarting level added
- Arrow and Numberpad Keys + Special Characters, now bindable
- If restarting a checkpoint with Armor in Singleplayer, the armor will work properly
- Godhand in Multiplayer Nerfed. It will now respawn every 5 minutes and last 10 seconds
- Scope/Blood is no longer stuck on screen if a Client happens to Die while activated
- Disabled mouse smoothing by default
- Added mouse smoothing launcher config option
- Disabled smooth framerate locks by default
- Increased the size of several memory pools to increase performance
- Added several texture rendering optimizations
- Added a variety of texture streaming optimizations

Most of this was fixable from day one by simply editing one .ini file, yet it took them weeks to release this patch which doesn't really fix any of the major issues :roll:

Maybe next week.
 
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sexbad?

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Wow, Yahtzee actually managed to address a game. Not particularly well, but better than his usual trash.
 

Multi-headed Cow

Guest
Well the patch was an improvement for me. Not MUCH of one, but it's slightly more playable now. Still lots of inexplicable shit like if I stand at THIS end of a rectangular box of a room I get 90+ FPS, but if I stand at THIS end I get 20-30. But still, that 20-30 is better than the shit it was pulling before.
 

Zewp

Arcane
Joined
Sep 30, 2012
Messages
3,593
Codex 2013
Performance is still shit after the patch. Still can't play it properly.
 

UserNamer

Cipher
Joined
Nov 6, 2010
Messages
692
I'm trying the game, I guess it's badly designed. Note that I started right at the last difficulty level, as I'm at ease with ultraviolence in doom, serious in the serious sam genre, and trauma in painkiller.

Well, that difficulty level is simply annoying. It's not so difficult, but the game often comes to a screeching halt when you have to stop and find some piece of shit guards firing at you kms away. Really a bad design choice, it's not particularly difficulty, just an annoying waste of time that is unfit in this sort of supposedly fast paced game. This is made worse by the horrendously imprecise mouse control. This same issue makes most of the fight a bore. You either pop up and shoot a bunch of rockets at the badly animated, scarsely populated horde, or you die- strafing around the enemy fire isn't really fun for the aforementioned shittiness of the mouse control

The enemies have some interesting abilities straight from rott, like stealing your weapons, trapping you in nets, faking death and so on... but they are mostly annoying to fight, there are few of them, badly animated, the violence seems shitty compared to stuff like serious sam 3 or brutal doom, the bullet feedback is atrocious and that blood effect is super shitty.

I guess it's good that you can move fast and some weapons are ludicrous. I think I'll try this game again but the flaws are exceedingly annoying. They are not just flaws, they qualify as major flaws in my opinion.
 

UserNamer

Cipher
Joined
Nov 6, 2010
Messages
692
I have been playing this some more, and man the flaws are incredibly bad and unforgivable

I was in this prison level where I died a bunch of time because I really didn't have the patience to stop and hide and look for some stupid guard raping your health from one of the rows (the game is pretty easy other wise and it would be a walk in the park if the mouse input wasn't so horribly imprecise and frustating. Even looking for sniping guards isn't that hard, it just requires you to stop and hide and then clumsily aim at it and kill it, easy but infuriating when you just can't be bothered and they rape your health from afar, again I'm plaiying on the max setting.

So what happen is that I finally start to pay attention to these stupid sniper guard (where they really so necessary) and I get stuck in the goddamn geometry of the level.

I ragequit, get back to it, beat a gauntlet of spinning rotating blades, and there is a stupid as shit jumping sequence, not so hard but made fucking stupid by the unintuitive jumping interface that require an annoying degree of precision to make the simplest of the jump.

The level after is an incrdibly stupid boss battle, basically an idiot in a moving container box that activates easily avoidable traps (why putting something so stupid and uninteresting in a game?). Again the only annoying part is aiming at his stupid cabin (not as trivial as in better designed shooters) while taking cover.

I'm afraid this game could fully qualify as a POS (piece of shit) if it weren't for some neat things like the super speed, the wacky power ups and the overpowered arsenal
 

retardation

Learned
Joined
Mar 23, 2013
Messages
180
This game is shit and this is the only place where it's not regarded as an instant classic. As someone already said, the game it's based on is shit, to begin with. Levels are mostly poorly designed and not very old-school (just because they are maze-like doesn't mean they're old school. Old school means varied and intriguing). They are also bland and completely unfit for fluid gameplay. Doorways are too small. You put a character in an Unreal Editor level and you build a doorway around him. How can anyone fuck that up?
 

MicoSelva

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My favourite FPS of all time is probably Duke Nukem 3D, and that games has very little sense of momentum.
I finally got around to play DN3D (the only BUILD engine game I've completed before was my favourite Shadow Warrior, although I've also played a lot of Blood) and managed to finish first three episodes, but the expansion one (The Birth) is a real bitch difficulty-wise, so I am kind of slogging through.

Playing this game reminded me why FPS (back then called FPP: First Person Perspective; even abbreviations are dumbed down nowadays) were fun. Fast-paced action, wacky weapons (shrinker fuck yeah), tons of exploration with scavenging for ammo and medpacks. And level design. Oh my gods, level design is SO GOOD.

I could live without enemies teleporting directly behind your back in some spots, though. That's fucking cheap.
 

UserNamer

Cipher
Joined
Nov 6, 2010
Messages
692
I don't like the build games that much because I think the enemies are shit*. The sprites feel weird, there is something about their attributes (things like speed, damage output and health point, abilities and attacks) that makes for very dull and uninteresting firefights despite the generally interesting settings and player arsenal. (*blood cultists are still great though)

I think the monsters in doom, quake, serious sam are magnitudes better to fight. I think the shittiness of the enemies in the build games is a major flaw, one that bumps them from the top of worthwhile fps and push them in the category of "somewhat mediocre, but interesting" games. Painkiller is also good, especially because the enemies have a wider variety to their abilities and attacks, but I find them lacking from a visual stand point- I feel they have zero charisma compared to id games or the ss. The remake did them a whole lot better, but sadly it made the gameplay shitter by cutting the fights and absolutely butchering the attacks hitboxes
 

sea

inXile Entertainment
Developer
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May 3, 2011
Messages
5,698
In a post on the Steam board, the developer says that most of the framerate problems are caused by the developers trying to be clever with an engine that is no longer built for clever developers. All the levels are built out of modular components, but UE3 is normally used for environments built of large individual models and stuff, so loading all the individual components with something called "drawcalls" is just too much for UE3's tight little anus, even though it's just the commands that bring it to its knees. It sounds almost too stupid to be true, but who knows!!!
Uh, what? Need this explained, maybe, but I assume what they're saying is that they use a lot of individual static mesh components in their levels... but looking at the game's graphics, there's nothing out of the ordinary. I've made a few levels in Unreal before that were detailed enough, and I didn't have any performance problems whatsoever. Go back and play Unreal Tournament 3, which still looks great, and you will see levels are made up of tons of various static meshes too, plus a decent dose of CSG for walls and floors.

So my guess is that they simply didn't include any culling volumes, meaning the engine is rendering everything in the level even if you can't see most of it. In that case they simply need to define culling volumes in their various areas so that if you're in a room, the game isn't rendering anything you can't see outside of it.

Unless I'm misunderstanding the problem of course, but I've never heard of this issue at all specifically with Unreal.

EDIT: Found the original developer post.

If I'm reading this right it means that they are using, say, 10 meshes for a wall instead of 1. That isn't clever. That's stupid. In an engine like Unreal (and most other modern game engines) it's far more useful and performance-friendly to simply have 1 mesh for a wall, barrel, etc. and use CSG for any flat plane (like a solid floor). A smart developer would have simply created a wall mesh and then used decals and other detail objects placed on that wall to hide the fact that it's the same wall used over and over. Unreal also allows you to scale objects along all axes, flip them, rotate them, etc., so you can use the same mesh in many places where you couldn't normally (i.e. if you have a wall that's 10 feet, you can scale it down to 5 feet or up to 15 feet).

This isn't an "Unreal thing". This is something that virtually every modern 3D engine will have trouble with.

In other words, developers either were not aware of the technical limitations of their engine when they built their game, or they (more likely) ignored them. Instead of picking an engine that let them do what they wanted or modifying it, they just forged on ahead knowing that there would be major performance problems.
 
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UserNamer

Cipher
Joined
Nov 6, 2010
Messages
692
I read some stupid excuse about building stuff (that are made of a single piece\mesh in other properly designed games) in multiple parts to encourage modding or some really stupid excuse like that.

Even if it was true, what is the point of sacrificing performance so much for the modding scene of a minor, indie game? Did they expect the game to become the next quake or doom? Whatever
 

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