People News David Gaider Complains about "Increasingly Toxic" Fan Feedback

[Hobbit Lord of Mordor_]

It's like a pig farmer complaining about having to walk through pig shit.

 

[Roguey]

No, and you're being disingenuous to try to minimize Gaider's power and influence. As far back as BG2, he was one of four "core design" guys (along with Knowles, Kristjanson, and Winski) directly under Ohlen and Martens. Gaider's not just some dude in charge of dialogs as you would pretend. Bioware's descent into pulp romance schlock can be squarely pinned on Davyd.

If by "core design" you mean "the entire design team" then yeah, he was part of the core. BG2's content was primarily designed by a mere six people (plus three additional), fun times in 2000, eh?

He has less influence than you think. David Gaider hasn't done anything the Biodocs or a lead designer (whether that be Ohlen and Martens on BG2, Ohlen/Karpyshyn on KOTOR, Knowles on HotU and DA:O or Laidlaw on DA2) didn't approve of first. Lead designers outrank writers, project directors outrank leads, etc.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

So, did the one dink of the group who dressed up as a fairy kill himself yet or is he still around?
Also, fuck bioware.

 

[Shannow]

Well, apparently,

There seems to be an assumption that hits have something to do with my salary. They do not. I am not paid based on traffic. We have goals and bonuses based on traffic, but I get a normal paycheck just like I would with any other job.

 

[Commissar Draco]

So, did the one dink of the group who dressed up as a fairy kill himself yet or is he still around?
Also, fuck bioware.

You mean Stanry Ru who gave KKKodex such memes like end of the rine and ding dong banu? He didn't killed himself... it was far more fired by EA Jewish overlords.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

When?

 

[Whisky]

Not long after TOR was released. He was laid off, not fired. If I recall, he was originally QA, but as time went by, his duties were basically moderating forums. He was an unnecessary expense.

He still mods the forums.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

So wait, the fag who was in pictures wearing a fucking god awful tacky blazer, a top hat, and pink fairy wings wasn't even a developer, but a glorified expense?

That's rich!!!

 

[Tommy Wiseau]

One day EA informed him that his services were no longer required, but being the lonel-- err, loyal employee he is, Stanry decided he wanted to go above and beyond the call of duty, so now he's ding dong banning people and ending their lines without pay.

 

[Jick Magger]

It didn't help that he was a walking punchline that pretty much nobody took seriously, not even the drones at the BSN.

 

[waywardOne]

No, and you're being disingenuous to try to minimize Gaider's power and influence. As far back as BG2, he was one of four "core design" guys (along with Knowles, Kristjanson, and Winski) directly under Ohlen and Martens. Gaider's not just some dude in charge of dialogs as you would pretend. Bioware's descent into pulp romance schlock can be squarely pinned on Davyd.

If by "core design" you mean "the entire design team" then yeah, he was part of the core. BG2's content was primarily designed by a mere six people (plus three additional), fun times in 2000, eh?

Just stop. There were two leads and four others under them. The points are he's had significant influence at Bioware for more than a decade, and that influence goes far beyond text-based fluff; your obfuscation, distraction, and minimization attempts are pathetic. Plain and simple, you're a liar and unworthy of being considered a legitimate participant in this discussion. There's no need for quotes:
(BG2 manual)

 

[DraQ]

Slightly more BHz and Roguey will start emitting ultra violent radiation.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Bwahahahaha
Fuck that loser.

 

[Roguey]

Just stop. There were two leads and four others under them. The points are he's had significant influence at Bioware for more than a decade, and that influence goes far beyond text-based fluff;

Prove it. Your uh, screencap there shows nothing other than "he was part of the design team of BG2" and well, no shit.

I however can prove that Bioware would have gone forward with romances without Gaider's involvement: http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/13/index/7637945/4#7818962

Romances: When we announced there would be romances in BG2 there was outcry against it on our boards. But the reason we put them in was because people were inventing their own. In BG1 it was enough that we simply didn’t contradict it. Players read into all sorts of interactions, scripting or not, and they were eager to believe that relationships were developing. So we knew the appetite was there.

Luke there was the lead writer of BG. Was at Bioware years before Gaider obviously. Bioware's deviant fanbase was larping romances by themselves, he saw it, and took advantage of it.

 

[Infinitron]

David in Edmonton: A Report on the Banality of Decline

The great evils in history generally, and RPG romances in particular, were not executed by fanatics or sociopaths, but by ordinary people who accepted the premises of their company and therefore participated with the view that their actions were normal.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Fuck Gaider, fucking full of himself smugness.

 

[Harg Harfardarssen]

David in Edmonton: A Report on the Banality of Decline

The great evils in history generally, and RPG romances in particular, were not executed by fanatics or sociopaths, but by ordinary people who accepted the premises of their company and therefore participated with the view that their actions were normal.

 

[waywardOne]

Just stop. There were two leads and four others under them. The points are he's had significant influence at Bioware for more than a decade, and that influence goes far beyond text-based fluff;

Prove it. Your uh, screencap there shows nothing other than "he was part of the design team of BG2" and well, no shit.

I however can prove that Bioware would have gone forward with romances without Gaider's involvement: http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/13/index/7637945/4#7818962

Are you fucking joking? Proof would be older than some year-old retcon at BSN to justify the shit they're into now. For the elucidation of all, being part of a design team trumps lead writer. Lead writers merely flesh out the storyboard the design team comes up with. That Gaider jumped into that and then passed over Krist just further proves my point.

Romances: When we announced there would be romances in BG2 there was outcry against it on our boards. But the reason we put them in was because people were inventing their own. In BG1 it was enough that we simply didn’t contradict it. Players read into all sorts of interactions, scripting or not, and they were eager to believe that relationships were developing. So we knew the appetite was there.

Luke there was the lead writer of BG. Was at Bioware years before Gaider obviously. Bioware's deviant fanbase was larping romances by themselves, he saw it, and took advantage of it.

Links? I wasn't anywhere near active on their boards at the time, but I'm damn sure they never announced anything of the kind. BG1 was highly lauded because the minimal NPC personalities were still miles beyond what rpg gamers expected out of party NPCs, namely serving as mules and cannon fodder. To take that and claim that a significant portion wanted imagined relationships molded into terribly fleshed out dialogs is ludicrous.

You're still deflecting, only now instead of minimizing Gaider, you're trying to say it was the fans themselves that made Bioware decline into shit. I can't wait for your next attempt.

 

[Necroscope]

Romances: When we announced there would be romances in BG2 there was outcry against it on our boards. But the reason we put them in was because people were inventing their own. In BG1 it was enough that we simply didn’t contradict it. Players read into all sorts of interactions, scripting or not, and they were eager to believe that relationships were developing. So we knew the appetite was there.

Luke there was the lead writer of BG. Was at Bioware years before Gaider obviously. Bioware's deviant fanbase was larping romances by themselves, he saw it, and took advantage of it.

He never actually says it was his idea to implement romances in BG2; the collective entity is impersonal, so we [Bioware] may as well mean Gaider.

 

[Moribund]

waywardOne, ffs.

First off it says lead designer not lead writer, as in the boss of the guys directly below, the mere designers. One step below that is even less status. The top of the list has the guy who is CEO and it goes down from there, like any credits. You don't have your super important peopel waste all their time making dumb blog posts and cruising the forums, he's what's called a flunky, one step above community manager. Just look at him!

Second, again you have to be joking if you really think there was no demand for sex mods and weird shit in BG mods from day one. Unfortunately BG being rtwp and featuring romances and therefore easy let the door open for every reject imaginable to play the game. From almost day one everyone has been creeped out by shit like anomen sister incest mod, except you apparently who somehow missed this for 14 years straight until just now. It was especially striking to me as certainly nothing like that happened in any RPGs I knew about. Now there's more weirdos and pedos playing RPGs than normal people.

 

[Roguey]

Are you fucking joking? Proof would be older than some year-old retcon at BSN to justify the shit they're into now.

"Retcon?" Tinfoil sales are up.

For the elucidation of all, being part of a design team trumps lead writer. Lead writers merely flesh out the storyboard the design team comes up with.

You're pretty damn ignorant about how things work/worked at Bioware. I suggest reading Gaider's blog series about the narrative process: http://dgaider.tumblr.com/page/4

That Gaider jumped into that and then passed over Krist just further proves my point.

"Passed over"
Your own screenshot:

Looks like they both had equal influence using your reasoning.

Links? I wasn't anywhere near active on their boards at the time, but I'm damn sure they never announced anything of the kind.

"I wasn't there but I'm sure this didn't happen because it didn't!"

Anyway the old Bioware forums are gone forever, like tears in rain. But Luke has no reason to be dishonest, especially since he said there was some outcry against it.

BG1 was highly lauded because the minimal NPC personalities were still miles beyond what rpg gamers expected out of party NPCs, namely serving as mules and cannon fodder. To take that and claim that a significant portion wanted imagined relationships molded into terribly fleshed out dialogs is ludicrous.

"Everyone liked it for the same reason I did. No one could have have possibly talked about the imaginary romances they were having with the companions."

You're still deflecting, only now instead of minimizing Gaider, you're trying to say it was the fans themselves that made Bioware decline into shit. I can't wait for your next attempt.

Uh huh. Here's an old BG2-era thread full of people talkin' about romances: http://www.gamejag.net/forum/index.php?/topic/3369-what-might-have-been/

I hope that there has been at least a slight bit of consideration for making Valygar a romance option for us ladies, because after the Planer Sphere quest I found him very intriguing. I have a thing for dark, brooding types anyway- if there had been romances in BG1 I would have been after Kivan like a shot.
...
Anomen is certainly sweet, and I enjoyed his storyline...but he's more of a big, clumsy, earnest puppy than anything else. This little glimpse of our strong, silent, brooding dark ranger is very nice. He'd make my PC's heart go pitter-patter.
...
And I've commented on not wanting to play from a female perspective. I think I need to qualify that now. I don't want to roleplay a female character if I think I'm going to have suffer through that pompous Anomen. My self-taught paladin did not care much for his arrogant temple dogma. Valygar was a very cool character though. Might have made it worth it. I carried him and Mazzy through a whole game hoping they would hit it off.
...
PS: The romances will continue, right? They were the best part of BG2 and it would a damn shame if they would not continue in an expansion pack. It is just that I am still worried that the expansion pack will be similar to the one in BG1, (i.e. it takes place before the final battle). If it is like that then I may never know what Anomen intended to say to my PC after leaving Suldanessellar. Damn that Anomen's last romance dialogue has been buggin' me!

 

[Infinitron]

Roguey, if you want to convince people that Gaider isn't the source of all the shit in Bioware's writing, you should try to get more quotes from these other people.

Fact is, the man has made himself the public face of Bioware's writing team. You want to talk about "tinfoil"? Tinfoil is believing there's somebody behind the scenes who was the REAL evil all along.

Provide facts, because otherwise, people will continue to believe what their eyes are seeing.

 

[Roguey]

Roguey, if you want to convince people that Gaider isn't the source of all the shit in Bioware's writing, you should try to get more quotes from these other people.

I've provided enough. How many more do you want me to get? Two? Three? Ten?

Fact is, the man has made himself the public face of Bioware's writing team. You want to talk about "tinfoil"? Tinfoil is believing there's somebody behind the scenes who was the REAL evil all along.

I prefer the more reasonable position of "Everyone at Bioware is terrible and full of hubris."

Provide facts, because otherwise, people will continue to believe what their eyes are seeing.

One mid-level employee who really loves attention doesn't control the corporate culture of a place that employs over 300, believing so is foolish.

 

[Infinitron]

One mid-level employee who really loves attention doesn't control the corporate culture of a place that employees over 300, believing so is foolish.

I don't think "corporate culture" is relevant here. This is more about the internal subculture of Bioware's writing team. You'd be surprised how much influence a handful of people can have. :jew:

Bioware almost certainly has a written, codified set of writing guidelines, probably developed internally by the writing team over the course of the early 2000s. Who wrote them, I wonder? Who was the most influential of the writers?

I'd love to get my hands on them someday (the guidelines, not the writers )

 

[Roguey]

One mid-level employee who really loves attention doesn't control the corporate culture of a place that employees over 300, believing so is foolish.

I don't think "corporate culture" is relevant here. This is more about the internal subculture of Bioware's writing team. You'd be surprised how much influence a handful of people can have. :jew:

Bioware almost certainly has a written, codified set of writing guidelines, probably developed internally by the writing team over the course of the early 2000s. Who wrote them, I wonder? Who was the most influential of the writers?

I'd love to get my hands on them someday (the guidelines, not the writers )

Going by the leads I'd guess Luke (BG, TotSC, MDK2, JE) Drew (KOTOR, ME) and Dave (ToB, HotU, DA:O).