Am I missing something in The Witcher?

[Chefe]

So, this game is pretty well liked 'round these parts, and with the enhanced edition and all I figured I would finally give old Geralt a go. I downloaded the demo and... don't see why this is considered to be a good RPG, or even an enjoyable G.

C&C? Don't make me laugh. There's the "advance the conversation" option and a "make the person hate you forever and never speak to you again" option. All other options are simple "What's that foozle?" and "Where's this place?" questions.

No C&C might make it a bad RPG, but what keeps the game from actually being enjoyable is the way dialog is implemented. You pick some "question" option and then are treated to a five minute conversation between Geralt and the NPC, totally out of your control. I don't like cutscenes, especially if they happen every single conversation. This game makes Mass Effect look like Torment.

Characters in the Witcher care less than characters in Morrowind. I didn't think such a feat could actually be possible, but it is. They also say the dumbest fucking things. I don't consider it immersive when I'm standing in a tavern and hearing "Dwarf cock!" shouted all over the place, then click on three completely different NPCs and hear them each say the same line about some boil remedy.

I won't even go into how Geralt seems to have a bad case of the "way too badass" syndrome.

Combat is gut-wrenchingly horrible. You stand there and click when your magic arrow lights up. If you're in a fight with multiple enemies they just hang around until you're done DDR-ing one guy before they move to attack you. There's no skill at all. Your health is way higher than everyone elses. You also have no control over what attacks you are performing, so you watch the same drawn out combo move every. single. time. There are multiple fighting styles, but that pretty much just means that when you see "fast ninja type enemy" you hit "fast mode", then proceed to click when the arrow turns fiery at the appropriate intervals.

Something also needs to be said about the women. The men in the game have all kinds of varied facial and body styles, but the women only come in two flavors - really fucking old and busty tavern wench. Okay, this is fine if you're using the game as some sort of medieval wanking material, but having 90% of the ladies look like they belong performing the pole in some Texas small town joint is really fucking stupid for anyone who doesn't consider their penis a gaming peripheral.

Why, Codex? Why do you like this?

 

[racofer]

Why, Codex? Why do you like this?

Boobs.

 

[Drakron]

Choices and Consequences come later, there are none on the demo that actually plays on the demo.

In the full game ... yes, going with Triss means in Act 1 you dont get to fight a mutant dog because by going with Triss means you stop then from getting the equipment so they cannot start experiment.

 

[Wyrmlord]

Why, Codex? Why do you like this?

I have not played the Witcher. I am not qualified to comment on it.

But that said, I suppose there might be some explanation.

Possibly it's because people in the Codex are quite readily forgiving with small or upstart studios. There are several bad things you could say about mainstream RPGs. Does that make games of lower budget better? Probably not. The truth is that the quality of indie RPGs is very inconsistent. Though frustration with mainstream games drives certain gamers to really jump over any indie RPG, which otherwise might still have its own flaws.

I say this because much of the RPG intelligentsia likes to revere Jeff Vogel. But it's not hard to find games better than the ones that he makes. Let me be honest. I really don't mind the graphics of his games at all. But the lack of any interesting quests, combat encounters, or places to explore is my personal problem with them. But hey, it's a one-man effort, so it deserves some slack, right?

I am not sure I would be so idealistic. I just want to have fun with what I play.

 

[Bluebottle]

While it certainly wasn't the most amazing RPG of recent years, it was still better than most. It can also be commended for a few decent ideas it brought to the table, and a pretty interesting setting.

The choices you are asked to make have far longer term consequences than is usually the case in most games, with you often not being presented with the repercussions of your actions for a long while. Not only does this sometimes lend itself to a more believable situation it also prevents the player from just reloading if things didn't necessarily pan out how they'd expected. On the other hand, it can be considered frustrating for the same reason.

It also has a reasonably inventive system of dealing with character knowledge. Knowledge that you acquire throughout the game, be it information related to the general plot, characters, creatures or ingredients, is all stored in the journal and is often required to solve quests or perform certain actions. While I didn't think was necessarily explored quite as much as it could have been as a mechanic, it does still have a great deal of potential.

 

[Hory]

C&C? Don't make me laugh. There's the "advance the conversation" option and a "make the person hate you forever and never speak to you again" option. All other options are simple "What's that foozle?" and "Where's this place?" questions.

C&C is reflected more in the plot than in immediate dialogue responses, and that's a good thing. I don't know about the demo, but in the game I haven't encountered many options to "make the person hate you forever". In fact, I can only think of one character who acted this way towards me, after I repeatedly accused him, several times, with unique conversations for each instance, and it was clear to me that he was getting more and more angry about it. And even then, it only lasted for one chapter.

No C&C might make it a bad RPG, but what keeps the game from actually being enjoyable is the way dialog is implemented. You pick some "question" option and then are treated to a five minute conversation between Geralt and the NPC, totally out of your control. I don't like cutscenes, especially if they happen every single conversation. This game makes Mass Effect look like Torment.

A high amount of dialogue sounds like a good feature, but it eventually made me bored of the too much talking. It's a problem of having dialogue trees; they make the player want to go through each option. I don't think that having the opportunity to choose more often would have made a big difference. You can't implement dramatic interventions at each step of a dialogue, and if they're not dramatic, there's not much use in having those options. It wasn't better in MotB, where you repeatedly had to pretend to agree with the beliefs of the followers, or you won't get the +10 reputation points.

Characters in the Witcher care less than characters in Morrowind. I didn't think such a feat could actually be possible, but it is. They also say the dumbest fucking things. I don't consider it immersive when I'm standing in a tavern and hearing "Dwarf cock!" shouted all over the place, then click on three completely different NPCs and hear them each say the same line about some boil remedy.

Either the demo is significantly worse, or you're exaggerating. When it comes to voice-overs, there is going to be some repetitiveness, but I have to give credit to Witcher's huge number of fully spoken NPC lines (the most in any game?).

I won't even go into how Geralt seems to have a bad case of the "way too badass" syndrome.

I agree, but the lines are pretty congruent. It doesn't feel like he's portrayed as a bad ass for the sake of being a bad ass.

Combat is gut-wrenchingly horrible. You stand there and click when your magic arrow lights up. If you're in a fight with multiple enemies they just hang around until you're done DDR-ing one guy before they move to attack you. There's no skill at all. Your health is way higher than everyone elses.

Pretty much. It's real time and you don't control any followers. It can't get very tactical.

You also have no control over what attacks you are performing, so you watch the same drawn out combo move every. single. time.

Nah, there are 5 combo rows for each style, so a total of 30, plus all the "finish him" animations. Again, it's more than 99% of other games. You usually watch one combo enough so that you can specialize in it (anticipate how long each move lasts), and then you get to the next style level.

There are multiple fighting styles, but that pretty much just means that when you see "fast ninja type enemy" you hit "fast mode", then proceed to click when the arrow turns fiery at the appropriate intervals.

If that's all you do in combat, maybe you should put more points in magic. After all, the warrior path is the most simple one in most games. Why would you go for it if you enjoy it less?

Something also needs to be said about the women. The men in the game have all kinds of varied facial and body styles, but the women only come in two flavors - really fucking old and busty tavern wench. Okay, this is fine if you're using the game as some sort of medieval wanking material, but having 90% of the ladies look like they belong performing the pole in some Texas small town joint is really fucking stupid for anyone who doesn't consider their penis a gaming peripheral.

Why do the game's women bother you so much if the sexual aspect isn't of importance to you?

Why, Codex? Why do you like this?

It's one of the best RPGs of it's time. Not like they chose it over other "real gems".

 

[Imbecile]

Why, Codex? Why do you like this?

Because its not mainstream. That said I really enjoyed act 2s investigation - and there are definitely delayed consequences to your actions, which is nice.

Also: boobs.

 

[Lesifoere]

Yeah, the fact that TW came out after years of gritting your teeth through, say, Oblivion, Jade Empire, KotOR and NWN gives it massive bonus points. Nobody's saying TW is better than PS:T or whatever; it's just that compared to recent releases, it's leagues and light-years ahead.

The C&C has already been covered. I actually liked the fact that consequences are delayed. No instant gratification, which is a hallmark of Bioware games. You do something, you change the outcome of something else related down the end of the chapter, or even the next chapter.

Characters in the Witcher care less than characters in Morrowind. I didn't think such a feat could actually be possible, but it is. They also say the dumbest fucking things. I don't consider it immersive when I'm standing in a tavern and hearing "Dwarf cock!" shouted all over the place, then click on three completely different NPCs and hear them each say the same line about some boil remedy.

?

You're complaining about the fact that they don't provide unique voice-acted lines for every single minor NPC? Okay then. All NPCs with actual speaking parts, ala not one-liners, have distinct voices.

Combat is gut-wrenchingly horrible. You stand there and click when your magic arrow lights up. If you're in a fight with multiple enemies they just hang around until you're done DDR-ing one guy before they move to attack you. There's no skill at all. Your health is way higher than everyone elses.

?

When I fought multiple enemies, they attacked me all at once, as long as space permits. Of course, the group style does let you hit them all simultaneously too, so again I've no idea what you're talking about re: "DDR-ing one guy."

Most of the RPGs liked/revered around here have combat that's either lacking or ridiculously easy. Bloodlines as Tremere is spamming blood boil/salvo, Celerity/Blood buff as Toreador, etc. PS:T--well, let's not talk about that one. Arcanum's combat is unbelievably shitty.

but the women only come in two flavors - really fucking old and busty tavern wench.

?

There're noblewomen and nuns in the city who are pretty well-covered and not exactly "busty tavern wenches." I recall some older peasant women in the Outskirts, too.

 

[Crichton]

By and large, I agree with you. It was mega-overhyped (especially here). I was particularly crushed by the gameplay since they keep talking about Gerry learing "combos", but there are no "combos"; you can't combine anything with anything else, you pick a "style" and click and that's it, Gerry goes through the same little sequence. You can't combine movement and sword swings, you can't pick your sword swing, you can't combine different "styles", you just frigging click!

But like a lot of RPGs, the focus is on content over gameplay. You're quite right, it's no PS:T, not even really in the same league as the BG games or KOTOR2, but if you take the time to explore, read and listen to everything, a lot of work went in to putting that thing together.

 

[made]

http://www.rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=20967

Here. 60 pages worth of reasons why the Witcher is AWSUM.

 

[Heresiarch]

C&C? Don't make me laugh. There's the "advance the conversation" option and a "make the person hate you forever and never speak to you again" option. All other options are simple "What's that foozle?" and "Where's this place?" questions.

Wut? Witcher has the best presentation of C&C in RPGs, in which consequences doesn't appear right after you made a choice, but after a loooong time and can bring a chain of seemingly unrelated special events.

And "no I hate u I wont talk 2 u" is pure nonsense. 80% when this happens just switch the area back and the NPC will forgive what you said. Unless you messed up a critical conversation, then it can lead to permahate (not a bug).

Witcher IS one of the best recent, plot-driven RPG out there. Just all those long-lasting c&c and tons of detailed, well written text to read alone is worth it. And it's one of the few RPG in which almost all the choices are in grey area rather than DND lawful dude or chaotic stupid stereotypes. And it doesn't have Mass Effect-like cheesy plots. And it has boobs to boot.

 

[Lesifoere]

Well, the boobs are pretty cheesy in and of themselves. But I think it's actually less embarrassing than the sex in Mass Effect. Thinking back on Kaidan Anomen Onasi makes me a little ill. All that clumsy "flirting" and all the "I AM A NEW AGE, SENSITIVE MALE!" vibes.

 

[Barrow_Bug]

Because it's Polish? I'd have to say it's a pretty fresh take on low fantasy. The way there's a little satire here and there works for me as well.

 

[Gragt]

Boobs, no strings attached. Need I say more?

Well I will say more: no elven princess syndrome, no person of the other sex messed up in the head who can't trust you but woul like to, no one dependant on you. Sure it's still cheesy gratification but it has a tongue in cheek feel that makes it work.

 

[aries202]

After playing the demo for only a short while, I was intrigued by the story, the setting and a Witcher named Geralt. I do think that Geralt has earned the right to hos 'way too badass attiude' - him being a Witcher and all.

The Witchers takes on elves for example are very refreshing and unique, too, I find. They are not the peaceloving Tolkien kind, but fearce and brutal
elves who fight against human oppression (or so I interpret it).

Skills do matter: If you put your earned points in sword for example, you will get better at swinging your sword. I still have some trouble with when I need to swing the sword, but after a while you get used to it.

If you have followed this place, and the comments on The Witcher, you will know there is now an Enhanced Edition out of the Witcher which do, in fact, enhance The Witcher experience greatly; conversations have be-rewritten and re-recorded.
Even though I had previously paid for the ordinary The Witcher game, I shelled out the money to buy the Enhanced Edition.

When I played the Witcher, the following happened: (in the voice of Geralt)

Spoiler

I was beating some drowned ones and was winning, then suddenly these elves appears and tell me to hand over the stuff I had made an arrangement with a merchant to hand over to him.
I thought for a moment of fightning, but there were like 20 or more of them, so I took a quick on my chances. I decided it were better to leave the stuff to the elves - even though I had heard something about someone sdaying that thet might be - saboteurs. Time will tell if what I did was right.

The consequences for some actions never hit you before much later. In this respect, The Wicther is unique. And it is a pearl amongst the RPGs that have been published in the recent years.

/aries202

 

[inwoker]

Chefe, you proved demo is shitty. The game, however, isn't.

 

[WhiskeyWolf]

Chefe wants Geralt to be emo.

 

[Burning Bridges]

I'm smelling a second MotB here. Fuck you codex, fuck you for talking me into that thing.

 

[DefJam101]

MotB was p. good except for the godawful combat.

 

[inwoker]

Choose yourself:

1)You are black. Your opinion therefore doesn't count.
2)Codex did 9/11.
3)There was no holocaust.

 

[DefJam101]

option 1

 

[Hory]

I found MotB's combat to be more challenging than Witcher's (which I even played on Difficult mode).

 

[DefJam101]

I found MotB's combat to be more challenging than Witcher's (which I even played on Difficult mode).

Yeah it was challenging, but it still sucked balls. Real time D&D is pretty lawl.

 

[Oarfish]

And it mainly took place at far too short ranges to effectively use area of effect spells, what with everything running around like it was a Benny Hill sketch. Turn based is just so much more dignified. Oh, and stop the ability to use the same crappy threat range tricks. Letting off a fireball in a 300 meter cave system should bring everything and its dog down on you that isn't trying to run away.

And they need to bring back the only good thing about BG2 combat - the mage duals. Which will of course involve having combat AI that doesn't suck.

 

[Ion Flux]

I haven't played this game so I have no idea, but:

...anyone who doesn't consider their penis a gaming peripheral.