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a grain of salt... GI FO3 article leaked.

Krafter

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Feb 22, 2006
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Castle Amber
Ugh. Real time first-person shooting with pause? Seriously, what? Did they even glance at Fallout? This one is so bad that it simply must be true. Big fans, my ass.

Considering even the already dumb Elder Scrolls series loses skills with each game, you knew they would do the same with Fallout. Fallout 4 will have 12 skills, and so on.

You heard it here, the only reason that there is a level 20 cap is so they can raise it in the expansion pack.
 

Mr. Teatime

Liturgist
Joined
Jun 25, 2003
Messages
365
Yeah, even I can smell the expansion. Either they've slowed levelling way-the-fuck down or made a shorter game. And perks are in trouble, unless a lot of them are choice/quest based rather than level based, which I'd actually prefer. eg. the gecko skinning one you could get in FO2.
 

mister lamat

Scholar
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
570
i like expansions. since it'll ship with an sdk the level cap is pretty irrelevant.

who the fuck got over level 20 in the first two anyways? weeks of game time scouring the wastes looking for small bands of raiders, rad scorpions and mantii doesn't strike me as worth keeping around.

*edit: the more i read people's shitty conjecture regarding a sentence of questionable grammar and poor construction i'm tempted to think it's actually a bit of a we-go/rt blend.
 

sah

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Jun 9, 2007
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Poland
Nothing exciting about that, they also joked about mudcrabs, soil erosion, etc. Nice guys.
 

MessiahMan

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Codex 2012 Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2
Ugh. A developer saying that the bounty hunter quests were the best because the combat was so graphic. Lovely to see that they understand what made Fallout such a great game.
 

mister lamat

Scholar
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Mar 23, 2006
Messages
570
why not? free thought in the workplace is kind. doesn't hurt the creative jihad at all.

unless of course you believe there was a list of 'acceptable oblivion jokes' done up by the pr guys.
 

HanoverF

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MCA Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Codex USB, 2014 Divinity: Original Sin 2
Anyone optimistic needs to stop taking the stupid pills and replay Oblivion, or do you think the reason that game is missing interesting quests, multiple endings, choices and consequences, detailed NPC interaction is because it wouldn't belong in the Elder Scroll series?
 

Deacdo

Liturgist
Joined
Oct 24, 2004
Messages
585
I'm less interested in a bunch of game endings than I am for a bunch of endings for each town you influence like in FO1 & 2.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
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Messages
28,035
HanoverF said:
Anyone optimistic needs to stop taking the stupid pills and replay Oblivion, or do you think the reason that game is missing interesting quests, multiple endings, choices and consequences, detailed NPC interaction is because it wouldn't belong in the Elder Scroll series?
My sentiments exactly. I'm surprised at the number of "good news!!! better than we expected!" posts I saw on NMA and DAC.
 

Section8

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- Game runs on an evolved version of the Oblivion engine. Third person view has been reworked since the verdict was that the Oblivion version sucked balls.

I don't see any real problems with this as long as they don't take the lazy option of not extended some of the more minimalist systems in Oblivion.

- Game starts with your birth and your mother's death in a vault hospital. This is essentially the character customization part of the game. Your father hands you up to have your DNA analyzed and you get to pick out all your character traits. Your dad takes off his mask to reveal similar traits to the ones you picked.
- You grow up in the vault and as you grow you get your first book titled "You're Special" which allows you to choose you baseline stats for each of your 7 primary aptitudes. You'll also get your first weapons and wrist computer (menu) as you get older you'll take tests to determine the initial layout of your skills and traits.
- Every aspect of character creation is based on S.P.E.C.I.A.L. system. Of your 14 skills you can tag 3 to grow at a faster rate than the rest as you level up.

Cute, but is it really necessary? More importantly, can we skip it when we replay the game?

- Battle system is called the Vault-tec Assisted Targeting System (V.A.T.S.). The article states. "While you'll certainly be able to tackle enemies in real time using first person shooting, V.A.T.S. lets players pause time and select a target at their leisure". Battle system still uses action points, but once you've used them up you'll still be able to fight targets in real time while they charge back up.

Sounds like a bullet-time style system. Let's the real-time combat runs too fast for the player (a la Max Payne), and so measured use of APs is required, and not born of the foolishly misled notion that TB advocates are incapable of playing an FPS and need a leg up.

- Game is still violent and gory. One of the featured screens is of a guy's head exploding in super gory detail. Apparently all gory deaths in the game will be in slow motion.

As long as it's unobtrusive, this sounds good. Dark Messiah handled slo-mo deaths pretty well. Games like the recent NFS games did it badly by shifting to "cinematic" camera during crucial moments.

- More than one way to play the game. Go balls out and kill people, or sneak past situations, or perhaps talk your way out of situations.

Definitely a positive, but this is also a touted feature of Oblivion, and it was underwhelming. Also, here's hoping that all content isn't artificially engineered to fit all three paths.

- Enemies can target you just like you can target them, so you can get injured in very specific points on you body. This is in addition to an all new health/radiation system. This new system has you measuring how radiated certain things (like water) are and how they affect you when you consume them.

This I like a lot. Giving the player functional injuries instead of simply damaging a pool of hitpoints is a step up. Of course, the original Fallout had a similar feature, so it's not sounding like leaps and bounds or anything.

- Karma system returns

Meh. The karma system in Fallout was a bit too "catch all" for my liking. I'd rather have social groups that each track the player's reputation based on their own moral code. Still, it's not a step down, so I won't lament the lost opportunity too much.

- XP based system, most XP comes from quests

Sounds pretty reasonable to me, although they run the risk of overincentivising and encouraging completism for the sake of XP.

- Level cap is 20

Fair enough, although it would have been nice to go to 21, just to get one final perk as you plateau.

- 9 - 12 possible endings based on your actions in the game

Sounds impressive, but you could claim Fallout has many more by defining each unique combination of binary endings for each settlement as a "possible ending". You could also say "Deus Ex has 4 possible endings based on your actions in the game", while it may as well have been one. Promising, but I'll remain reserved.

- No level scaling like oblivion, you walk into a high level area, you die horribly.

Good. Happy with this.

- There are NPC's you can hire, but this is not a party based game.

Another good point, glad to see the "lone wanderer" idea preserved. I just hope the father character doesn't fuck with that.

So are we accepting this as truth, and therefore making it newsworthy, or are we waiting for confirmation?
 

Brother None

inXile Entertainment
Developer
Joined
Jul 11, 2004
Messages
5,673
Vault Dweller said:
My sentiments exactly. I'm surprised at the number of "good news!!! better than we expected!" posts I saw on NMA and DAC.

Keep in mind of what people were expecting when they say "better than we expected." Considering many were thinking Oblivion/Diablo with Guns, this looks like a slight step forwards.

This has been more or less confirmed, though not officially yet. We'll wait for scans for more details.
 

Fez

Erudite
Joined
May 18, 2004
Messages
7,954
I still think Section8 put it best with the "battered wife" syndrome example.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
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Messages
28,035
Section8 said:
- More than one way to play the game. Go balls out and kill people, or sneak past situations, or perhaps talk your way out of situations.

Definitely a positive, but this is also a touted feature of Oblivion, and it was underwhelming. Also, here's hoping that all content isn't artificially engineered to fit all three paths.
Exactly.

So are we accepting this as truth, and therefore making it newsworthy, or are we waiting for confirmation?
There are some confirmations that the overview kinda matches the article, so if you want, go ahead and post it.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,035
Brother None said:
Vault Dweller said:
My sentiments exactly. I'm surprised at the number of "good news!!! better than we expected!" posts I saw on NMA and DAC.

Keep in mind of what people were expecting when they say "better than we expected." Considering many were thinking Oblivion/Diablo with Guns, this looks like a slight step forwards.
In what ways?
 

Mr. Van_Buren

Scholar
Joined
Nov 1, 2005
Messages
127
section 8 said:
Sounds pretty reasonable to me, although they run the risk of overincentivising and encouraging completism for the sake of XP.

I can't say that's any worse than encouraging combat for the sake of XP, though.

At least there's a consistant, dramatic, and character driven reason for the accumulation.

Though I will be saddened by the loss of one of my favorite FO late-game lvling strategies. That being the pumping up of Strength and Melee along with nessessary perks in order to level quickly through random encounters while not wasting ammo.

ah, good ol' sledge, it's finally time to retire ye. You will be missed.
 

Mr. Van_Buren

Scholar
Joined
Nov 1, 2005
Messages
127
Vault Dweller said:
Brother None said:
Vault Dweller said:
My sentiments exactly. I'm surprised at the number of "good news!!! better than we expected!" posts I saw on NMA and DAC.

Keep in mind of what people were expecting when they say "better than we expected." Considering many were thinking Oblivion/Diablo with Guns, this looks like a slight step forwards.
In what ways?

Personally, no level scaling was a sigh of relief for me. One less thing I'll have to mod out.
 

mister lamat

Scholar
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
570
There are some confirmations that the overview kinda matches the article, so if you want, go ahead and post it.

no! it'll lose it's indie cred.

being on the x-box could we see something more like Gears with a pause button on the sniper scope?
 

Brother None

inXile Entertainment
Developer
Joined
Jul 11, 2004
Messages
5,673
We're still hoping to get scans soon, but again, this is more or less confirmed.

Vault Dweller said:
In what ways?

Well, uhm, it's not just FP/RT, the teaser already showed they have a better grasp of the setting than Cuevas did, the multiple-ending thing looks like a move in the right direction, doesn't look like they're completely butchering SPECIAL.

I know they really hurt your feelings with Oblivion and all, but there are in fact gradations of being negative. We might just be on a different scale.
 

Fez

Erudite
Joined
May 18, 2004
Messages
7,954
Maybe they'll have a bullet time slo-mo mode too.
 

Deacdo

Liturgist
Joined
Oct 24, 2004
Messages
585
Mr. Van_Buren said:
Vault Dweller said:
Brother None said:
Vault Dweller said:
My sentiments exactly. I'm surprised at the number of "good news!!! better than we expected!" posts I saw on NMA and DAC.

Keep in mind of what people were expecting when they say "better than we expected." Considering many were thinking Oblivion/Diablo with Guns, this looks like a slight step forwards.
In what ways?

Personally, no level scaling was a sigh of relief for me. One less thing I'll have to mod out.
Do you think you, or anyone else, will be able to mod the VAT system into a good turn-based system?
 

Mr. Van_Buren

Scholar
Joined
Nov 1, 2005
Messages
127
Deacdo said:
Mr. Van_Buren said:
Vault Dweller said:
Brother None said:
Vault Dweller said:
My sentiments exactly. I'm surprised at the number of "good news!!! better than we expected!" posts I saw on NMA and DAC.

Keep in mind of what people were expecting when they say "better than we expected." Considering many were thinking Oblivion/Diablo with Guns, this looks like a slight step forwards.
In what ways?

Personally, no level scaling was a sigh of relief for me. One less thing I'll have to mod out.
Do you think you, or anyone else, will be able to mod the VAT system into a good turn-based system?

*shakes magic 8 ball*

"Outlook not so good."
 

Section8

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Messages
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Wardenclyffe
I can't say that's any worse than encouraging combat for the sake of XP, though.

At least there's a consistant, dramatic, and character driven reason for the accumulation.

I'd have it the other way around. In most RPGs combat is more or less a commonality between all characters. The guy who just wants to save kittens from trees will have to fight his way from tree to tree, and the guy who wants to lure children to gingerbread houses is going to have to clear the forest of monsters before the NPC kids will set foot in the forest.

If the major part of the total XP pool is awarded for a common and generally morally ambiguous task, then there's less reason for characters to conflict themselves.

However, if the lion's share of XP is awarded according to quests, then there's more reward for acting outside of a consistent, dramatic, character driven reason.

Of course, it may be self-limiting, like Fallout's mutually exclusive quests (siding with one or the other) with which there isn't really a problem - but there's reason for concern in this respect with regard to both Bethesda's track record, and XBox Live achiements.

[edit] I decided I'd take a look at the Elder Scrolls forums and see how the reaction was, and I died a little inside. This comment tickled me:

It doesn't really sound like a true bullet-time to me. If you have ever been in a real fight (either for fun or for real) there's a moment when you're perfectly focused and it is as if time slows down just so you can think for a moment and plan your attack, and that is what this seems like.

Oh how I wish that was ironic. :cry:
 

mister lamat

Scholar
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
570
Maybe they'll have a bullet time slo-mo mode too.

the base engine scales to objects smoothly. no oh my fucking god photo realism or anything but the transition is nice. think about civ4's combat and how that was shown. there's nothing really stopping you from tracking a bullet in slo mo after a called shot to the head that criticals. if this shit is true it asks the question of how vats applies to melee as well. if it's even got a hint of the ultra violence...

i'm sure someone else will pipe up with how this means they're going to ignore every other aspect of the game, but really boomin' replays of shit like that are fun.
 

Mr. Van_Buren

Scholar
Joined
Nov 1, 2005
Messages
127
Hey, it's only the gory deaths that will be in slo-mo right?

I don't see any reason why they shouldn't add an option on this. After all, Jedi Outcast had slow-motion deaths, but if you found them annoying you could just go into options and adjust it or even turn it off.
 

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