2010 - The Turn Based RPG revival?

Carlos' Bitch1 · Oct 22, 2009

http://www.nielsbauergames.com/

Link, for the uneducated.

Looks to be a few other games that seem interesting there as well. Hmm, I don't want to spend my Age of Decadence fund on them...what shall I do? If only I knew if AoD would be released by Christmas...terrible.

Vault Dweller · Oct 22, 2009

It won't be.

Carlos' Bitch1 · Oct 22, 2009

Vault Dweller said:
It won't be.

No harm in trying.

MisterStone · Oct 22, 2009

Vault Dweller said:
It won't be.

But... we shook hands. :cry:

Vault Dweller · Oct 22, 2009

Hopefully you'll find the combat demo entertaining enough.

NotAnAlt · Oct 22, 2009

Single character turn based combat is gonna suck, no matter how much you twiddle with it.

denizsi · Oct 22, 2009

VD, you still have time to make it real-time. Quick!

Vault Dweller · Oct 22, 2009

NotAnAlt said:
Single character turn based combat is gonna suck, no matter how much you twiddle with it.

If you say so. You sound like a knowledgeable guy, so I'm sure you know what you're talking about.

Some feedback from people who are known around these parts:

Jora said:
On the whole, for a single-player RPG whose main focus isn't combat your system is sufficiently tactical both in theory and practise. Not to mention that it's always good to have a breath of fresh air in an industry that has been so stagnant when it comes to combat design for so long.

Galsiah said:
In general I'm impressed with the way things work out. There aren't any clear exploits - the AoOs for withdrawal from combat prevent most cheap tactics -, and I've changed my opinion more than once on the viability of different builds/tactics. It's an engaging, addictive challenge.
...
The variety of fights is interesting, but also makes it hard to adopt any clearly optimal build strategy - which is good. That goes both for skill allocation, and for item acquisition: gold is in short supply, so a weapon bought for one fight will probably have to serve through three. It's still very welcome to get the Arena Master's take on each opponent before you commit to facing him - it's possible to decide on items as appropriate, or allocate any defensive points immediately if they're ranged opposition.

Hazelnut said:
Triari: Fucking hard. Got knocked down, shield broke, disarmed. Must got to sleep now - curse you for such an addictive combat demo.

Suibhne said:
The fight against the Barbari was, in a word, awesome. I was down to 4HP (out of 45! - hit by a nasty crit for about 20HP) after killing the first one, then pumped all the points into Dodge and withdrew bit by bit across the Arena, often at odd angles - positioning myself for best interrupt hits on approaching enemies.
...
I'm really looking forward to playing more tonight! So yes, it's fun and addictive even if I feel like I haven't quite figured out the combat system yet.

1eyedking said:
I haven't had this fun with a game in a long, long time.

Kos-Koa said:
Overall I felt the combat itself to be fairly well balanced and interesting, and many of the builds felt viable in each attempt in the arena. I made it to the Triarii twice with a two-handed sword/dodge build and a one-handed hammer/block build. Sadly I haven't gone farther than the Triarii or reached their level again with any other build, though that's less a balance issue and more a time/sanity one. Has anyone told you how difficult trying to beat the arena is?

Overall I felt the combat demo to be solid, which is crazy when you consider that if you were only limited to the combat of any other rpg you would be bored to tears under an hour (if you are lucky). The time I spent playing I kept wanting to try new weapons and different stat builds, just trying to move up the arena ranks was fun, albeit frustrating. It's quite the accomplishment and it definitely shows that you guys are on the right track, but it still has room for improvement.

Claw said:
It's clear that the same tactic doesn't work against every opponent, and the wrong approach will usually cause utter failure. ... In any case it's alot of fun and looks great.

Ghan said:
As you know I am not a TBC conoisseur. However I find combat suitably fluid and providing interesting choices. Especially distributing skill points represents hard choices, that becomes evident. As is choice between heavy and fast weapons in a category. I found myself using a variety of attacks and weapons, and varying it by opponent - that is good. Certainly the opponents make it obvious that different approaches and skills can be optimal in different circumstances.

Dhruin said:
I've enjoyed it so far and look forward each time to trying something new. Different builds vary quite a bit, which is great.

Samurai Jack said:
Best TB combat since ToEE!

Xor · Oct 22, 2009

There should be an angry VD encounter in AoD.

Vault Dweller · Oct 22, 2009

Very angry. Practically beyond myself with rage. About to smash my monitor.

Darth Roxor · Oct 22, 2009

VD was working very hard to make a great combat engine. All that was being observed by the Codex, which eventually slithered from above and whispered into VD's ear:

'It looks pretty... but is it art?'.

:

Vault Dweller · Oct 22, 2009

Darth Roxor said:
VD was working very hard to make a great combat engine. All that was being observed by the Codex, which eventually slithered from above and whispered into VD's ear:

'It looks pretty... but is it art?'.

:

Now THIS is [forum] art!

Quoted for awesomeness.

winterraptor · Oct 22, 2009

Livonya said:
Is there some reason that so many of you apparently don't want AoD to come out?

Listen%2Bto%2Bthe%2Bmustn%27ts%2Bchild.jpg

winterraptor · Oct 22, 2009

Vault Dweller said:
]Well, you see, everyone knows that it takes 3, maximum 6 months, to make a quality RPG. Ergo, a game that was in development for 5 years is, by definition, a vaporware.

Vault Dweller said:
I'm browsing the internet and re-connecting with my homies.

NotAnAlt · Oct 23, 2009

Vault Dweller said:
NotAnAlt said:

Single character turn based combat is gonna suck, no matter how much you twiddle with it.

Click to expand...

If you say so. You sound like a knowledgeable guy, so I'm sure you know what you're talking about.

Thanks i try. 3 quick points:

1) I can't think of single game where the dev has quoted glowing reviews that has turned out shit. Not one.

2) I've seen Geneforge quoted as a good example of TB combat round here. People known around these parts does not equate to people who know what the fuck there talking about.

3) Playing a quick demo with multiple builds is a little different to playing a full game with only one. Back up + poke with spear get's repetetive fast.

Vault Dweller · Oct 23, 2009

NotAnAlt said:
1) I can't think of single game where the dev has quoted glowing reviews that has turned out shit. Not one.

Glowing reviews are meaningless because:

- the gaming press is easy to impress
- the gaming press is usually pretty clueless, lacks perspective, understanding, and knowledge.
- the gaming press lives off the ads and can't afford to piss off paying clients

Any of those factors apply to people I mentioned?

2) I've seen Geneforge quoted as a good example of TB combat round here. People known around these parts does not equate to people who know what the fuck there talking about.

It's possible that some moron mentioned that GF has good combat, but back in my day it was commonly understood and agreed that while Spiderweb games have many good qualities, combat isn't one of them.

I would ask you to post some links, but I'm sure you'd find some excuse and weasel your way out, so I won't even bother.

3) Playing a quick demo with multiple builds is a little different to playing a full game with only one. Back up + poke with spear get's repetetive fast.

a) it's not a quick demo. Only few people managed to beat it.
b) if you were a reading comprehension adept, you'd have noticed that people praise different tactics within a build.

Your turn.

Genma:TheDestroyer · Oct 23, 2009

Serious_Business said:
Stop this inane cocksucking right there, the game is taking a fucking long time to come out, end of story, it's already playable,

No offense to VD, but I heard that the Combat Demo would probably come out around last Feb. Didn't happen.

Since then, there have been multiple dates this year for the demo. One of them was the very next Thursday from his announcement. Someone made a countdown post a few days away...Thursday came...and went. Nothing.

We hear about the Demo all the time.

Fat Dragon · Oct 23, 2009

I don't believe VD has ever given a definite date for the demo. He's given estimates on when it might come up if development goes well, but the testers have been giving him good feedback for improvement and so things in the demo are still being balanced and changed.

Vault Dweller · Oct 23, 2009

Genma:TheDestroyer said:
Serious_Business said:

Stop this inane cocksucking right there, the game is taking a fucking long time to come out, end of story, it's already playable,

Click to expand...

No offense to VD, but I heard that the Combat Demo would probably come out around last Feb. Didn't happen.

And? Are you having a hard time grasping the difference between playable and good? Grasping the difference between a game that may or may not even exist in a playable form and a game that's actually being tested by people you know?

Since then, there have been multiple dates this year for the demo. One of them was the very next Thursday from his announcement. Someone made a countdown post a few days away...Thursday came...and went. Nothing.

On Thursday? A countdown post? Are you on drugs?

We hear about the Demo all the time.

Must be tough.

Gragt · Oct 23, 2009

Darth Roxor said:
VD was working very hard to make a great combat engine. All that was being observed by the Codex, which eventually slithered from above and whispered into VD's ear:

'It looks pretty... but is it art?'.

Till the Codexer whispered behind the leaves, "It's pretty, but is it Art?"

Carlos' Bitch1 · Oct 23, 2009

the gaming press is easy to impress

Well, this depends whether it is easy to scrape up advertising dollars, and next-gen graphics. They become unimpressed quite easily without the two former aspects.

I cannot decide which are the biggest whores these days; Gaming magazines or Motoring magazines.

MetalCraze · Oct 23, 2009

Cars and bikes at least serve for more than 2 hours.

PorkaMorka · Oct 27, 2009

There have been some games with good turn based single character combat.

However, the only ones I can think of are roguelikes.

Roguelikes have a lot of advantages in terms of combat over more standard RPGs, so it will be highly impressive if he can pull off good turn based single character combat without the many inherent advantages of roguelikes.

Can you name a non roguelike with good turn based single character combat?

MisterStone · Oct 27, 2009

A demo's a demo, just release the demo to the general public already. Dammit.

Norfleet · Oct 27, 2009

NotAnAlt said:
Single character turn based combat is gonna suck, no matter how much you twiddle with it.

Single-character turn-based combat is a strongly suboptimal performance case for turn-based implementation, simply because turn-based is an abstraction to enable the player to control more than is feasibly practical under real-time constraints. This works well when you are trying to direct an entire party of people to behave in a sensible fashion, but is rather dull when you have only a SINGLE PIECE to move, the rest of your time being spent watching the computer move. This is actually one of the weak points of Fallout, really, made up for largely by the fact that you got to shoot people in the eyes. Of course, real-time face-shooting would have worked just as well, if not better. If they had allowed you to ALSO direct the REST of your party rather than just having them repeatedly shoot you in the back, that would have been awesome. But when there's only YOU to control, and your ONE MOVE is to SHOOT SOMEONE IN THE FACE, the only real point of the turn-based action was to watch the face-shooting. Without face-shooting, there's no real point in having a single character turn-based system.

2010 - The Turn Based RPG revival?

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