Review VD holds forth on Dragon Age Quest Design

[Volourn]

Moran. We're talking about game design, and we're talking about design in comparison to DA. And, NONE of those games have better overall quest design than DA. Period.

 

[Melcar]

Bullshit

 

[Volourn]

O RLY?!?

 

[Silellak]

 

[Burning Bridges]

I don't give a fuck about good quest design in otherwise stupid games. In the end what will come from this than some poor blighters buy dumb games against better judgement, and regret it bitterly? MotB was the last game I bought because of a codex review, thanks sir.

To put it simply, the game is a masterpiece. Sure, it has flaws and things-that-should-have-been-done-better. Overall though, it’s one of those rare games that people will remember for a long time and I definitely expect to see it on “top 10 RPGs” lists in the near future. It probably won’t get any “RPG of the Year” awards from the mainstream media as such honours are reserved for awesome games like Halo 3 and cult classics like Oblivion: Fighter’s Stronghold Expansion, so if you liked what I had to say about the game, go and buy it today. Support Obsidian's efforts to bring us something different and vote with your money.

Masterpiece my ass. Look who wrote the review ...

 

[Brother None]

First, when you are told about the Circle, you are told that it's only a day away, which makes the trip logical. Second, for it to "break immersion for an experienced gamer", all other games should handle the effect of long trips on quests better, which they don't.

"Others do it too!" is a Volourn-esque argument I would've been better off never having seen you make, VD.

Fact is, Redcliffe's essential quest setup is brilliant. It, and the Mage Tower, are the peak of the game as far as I played it (did Redcliffe, Mage Tower, Elves, but haven't got beyond Orzammar, got too bored and simply started playing other games).

But I still knew the moment I saw the options that the whole "but you have to hurry!" thing would be false. And that means the Mage Circle help is the "perfect" option. Why? Why did BioWare have to do this? This is a horrible situation tensely balanced on a knife's edge, why am I given a "perfect out", when in fact every choice I make should have negative consequences? There's no logical reason for this (and no, a handful of knights suddenly being able to contain the mind-dominating demon for 2 days is never logically explained), it's a pure out to go easy on the player.

Does it stop the quest from being great? Nah. Does it damage the quest? Yihup.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

Moran. We're talking about game design, and we're talking about design in comparison to DA. And, NONE of those games have better overall quest design than DA. Period.

Moran.

 

[Volourn]

"Others do it too!" is a Volourn-esque argument I would've been better off never having seen you make, VD. "

Sorry, the argument works when morons are arguing y game is better than x game for z reason even though y game does z too.

Git it? Gut it? Gud.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I don't give a fuck about good quest design in otherwise stupid games. In the end what will come from this than some poor blighters buy dumb games against better judgement, and regret it bitterly? MotB was the last game I bought because of a codex review, thanks sir.

To put it simply, the game is a masterpiece. Sure, it has flaws and things-that-should-have-been-done-better. Overall though, it’s one of those rare games that people will remember for a long time and I definitely expect to see it on “top 10 RPGs” lists in the near future. It probably won’t get any “RPG of the Year” awards from the mainstream media as such honours are reserved for awesome games like Halo 3 and cult classics like Oblivion: Fighter’s Stronghold Expansion, so if you liked what I had to say about the game, go and buy it today. Support Obsidian's efforts to bring us something different and vote with your money.

Masterpiece my ass. Look who wrote the review ...

I explained why I think the game was a masterpiece, giving you enough to make your own decision.

Anyway, I take it that you regret buying MotB "bitterly". May I ask why? And if you have time, mind explaining the "look who wrote the review" comment?

 

[Brother None]

Sorry, the argument works when morons are arguing y game is better than x game for z reason even though y game does z too.

But toro and VD weren't comparing DA to any other game.

DA never makes it feasible that the demon is contained for two days or more while you're faffing about. It just is. The only thing the game does is tell you it'll only take one day to get there, as if that magically makes everything a'right.

When toro said this rubs experienced gamers the wrong way, I assumed he meant that - like me - he immediately saw through the falsehood behind "you have to hurry", as you really don't.

Kind of like werewolves. Is there an actual threat of lycanthropy or is that another one of those meta-gaming "if we get the gamer to buy this he'll act as if it's in here so we don't have to actually program it" things? Just askin'.

 

[Elhoim]

I read somewhere that if you left for the tower of the magi the encounter with the demon would be more difficult, because it had more time to strengthen itself, but it's probably false. It would have been a nice consequence, though.

 

[Volourn]

I don't care what THEY were arguing. Toro wants to bring me into this, so he gets what he deserves. C&C, biatches!

That's the reason why I often use that argument because that's exactly what happens a lot.

It's why I brought up 3 popular games in this thread as I think it is silly to bash DA for the issue of time when outside of basically the FO main quest, there are no true time limits in those 3 popualr Codex games which I have no doubt toro himself sucks dick over.

 

[Vault Dweller]

First, when you are told about the Circle, you are told that it's only a day away, which makes the trip logical. Second, for it to "break immersion for an experienced gamer", all other games should handle the effect of long trips on quests better, which they don't.

"Others do it too!" is a Volourn-esque argument I would've been better off never having seen you make, VD.

You misunderstood. There are certain flaws common to all games. It's silly to point out these flaws in one game while completely ignoring or accepting them in all other games.

Games should be judged not against imaginary ideal standards but against other games. I praise DA options not because I'm completely overwhelmed by the options but because DA quest design surpasses that of 95% of games.

 

[Brother None]

Toro wants to bring me into this, so he gets what he deserves.

Uh, Toro never talked to you?

You misunderstood. There are certain flaws common to all games. It's silly to point out these flaws in one game while completely ignoring or accepting them in all other games.

So don't. Criticize them whenever they happen. No one is forcing you to ignore them in any game.

Games should be judged not against imaginary ideal standards but against other games

Wow. That's...how would progress work by those standards? If everything older games did are the standards - period - then how is a genre supposed to improve?

Seriously, recognize what's good, criticize what isn't. Compare it to other games only where necessary. You're constructing an unnecessary dichotomy of unrealistic, imaginary standards or underachieving, realistic standards. That is unnecessarily black and white.

 

[Burning Bridges]

Anyway, I take it that you regret buying MotB "bitterly". May I ask why?

Labelling something a masterpiece exacts a bit more than good story and dialogs. I have hardly seen a game with worse gameplay than MotB.

And if you have time, mind explaining the "look who wrote the review" comment?

Ok if you really need to hear it, in my opinion you produced a completely one sided, misleading review in MotBs case, an absolutely low point of codex articles. And now you're doing it again with DA.

 

[Volourn]

"Uh, Toro never talked to you?"

Good thing I never calimed he did. I said he brought me into it, and he did so by trolling me when he decided to bahs me in his crying diatribe versus VD in some lame attempt to hurt VD's feelings by comparing him to the Volourn.

That, most definitely, is bring me into it.

Don't troll me unless you are ready for some LOLZ.


"in my opinion you produced a completely one sided"

It's his rveiew. Of course, it was one sided. It's his damn opinion.

 

[Brother None]

Good thing I never calimed he did. I said he brought me into it, and he did so by trolling me when he decided to bahs me in his crying diatribe versus VD in some lame attempt to hurt VD's feelings by comparing him to the Volourn.

Yeah, uh, that was me, not Toro. And I didn't really care about bringing you in, I just use you as a prototype of "how not to argue 101".

But hey, good job, scamp.

 

[Volourn]

"Yeah, uh, that was me, not Toro. "

When I see my name, I see blood. Attack, and ask questions later.

 

[Brother None]

Oh. In that case: Made you post. Dance, puppet, dance.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Anyway, I take it that you regret buying MotB "bitterly". May I ask why?

Labelling something a masterpiece exacts a bit more than good story and dialogs. I have hardly seen a game with worse gameplay than MotB.

If my review was a one-liner "MotB - masterpiece! Buy it now!", you'd be correct, but I explained why I think it's a great game in my review.

Going over it now to refresh my memory, I see that I criticized the character system and combat, calling them the least interesting, mediocre aspects; explained why I like the setting, stated that the story is personal and revolves around figuring out the curse, explained the nature of the curse when I explained the spirit meter, praised quests and dialogues (well deservedly, I think), said that the party members are improved over NWN2 OC, explained the issue with the influence system, and posted a lot of screens. Covered everything, didn't I? What else would you expect from a review?

Ok if you really need to hear it, in my opinion you produced a completely one sided, misleading review in MotBs case, an absolutely low point of codex articles. And now you're doing it again with DA.

DA has plenty of flaws. They will be covered in the review. This article is my reference material. I don't want to spoil anything in the review, but I will praise the quest design and link to this article in case someone would like to see the proof.

Now, going back to the MotB review, why do you feel it's one sided and misleading?

 

[Burning Bridges]

I don't deny that you pointed at weaknesses. But then you still called it a masterpiece. Do you still stand behind that?

 

[Brother None]

I don't deny that you pointed at weaknesses. But then you still called it a masterpiece. Do you still stand behind that?

*scratches behind ear in puzzlement*

So, errr, despite all the flaws pointed out, you bought MotB because VD used the word "masterpiece", and now are angry because it actually has flaws? I'm not seeing how VD is to blame here and not, y'know, you.

 

[Burning Bridges]

I am not angry, I just smell a rat with DA.

 

[Brother None]

So why not simply see what weaknesses and strengths are listed, ignore any use of the term "masterpiece" and make your own decision?

 

[Burning Bridges]

Someone should have told me earlier that I have to ignore the whole concluding paragraph, which is nothing but a culmination of superlatives. Any reviewer will place some nitpicks to demonstrate that he really played the game, but it's the conclusion that matters. If I had been so scrupulous as you say I could have never bought a single game in my whole life.