Vampire Bloodlines Character Development

[Liberal]

I'm playing a Ventrue specializing in stealth and diplomacy, where should I invest points to make him both fun and playable combat-wise? Is the defense feat useful at all (I sure hope it is, I've spent a lot of experience on that one)? Melee vs. firearms which is better and why? Should I bother with unarmed for feeding on my enemies? I wish I could talk/sneak my way out of every encounter, but there's plenty that have to result in violence, and I'd appreciate being able to stand up for myself.

 

[PlanHex]

I'd say melee, but you might wanna put a few (cheap) points in firearms too, since they help a lot in the sewers against the giant thingamabobs that only use melee and move real slow.
Of course, magazines can easily get your firearms up to a decent level, so you could just rely on those.

Pretty sure defense is a must, regardless of everything else.

Unarmed for feeding might be a waste, because a melee oriented char would have a decent str anyway, and I think there's some brawling magazines around too
Plus you can just use blood buff to get it up smug

 

[Vibalist]

You could always use trance on your opponents and then feed on them, I think trance is one of the first spells you get when you put points into Dominate. If you get unarmed or close combat fighting up to around 5 you should be able to take on the opponents you can't avoid fighting and then you can rely on stealth for the rest of them.

And defense is important, yeah. Pump a few points into Fortitude too, for good measure.

 

[halflingbarbarian]

The combat encounters in Bloodlines are not hard in my opinion and some of those skills you might take will make it even too easy. What I suggest is still go down the path of what you planned for your character and specialise him to a fault (meaning having obvious weaknesses) to make working around some situations even more enjoyable.

P.S: No it's not like 'roleplaying' in Oblivion where you make things hard for yourself please don't compare this to that .

 

[Liberal]

I'd say melee, but you might wanna put a few (cheap) points in firearms too, since they help a lot in the sewers against the giant thingamabobs that only use melee and move real slow.
Of course, magazines can easily get your firearms up to a decent level, so you could just rely on those.

Pretty sure defense is a must, regardless of everything else.

Unarmed for feeding might be a waste, because a melee oriented char would have a decent str anyway, and I think there's some brawling magazines around too
Plus you can just use blood buff to get it up smug

Damn, I wish I understood how defense works. It seems to liken the chance of having your opponent miss you entirely... rather than reduce the damage dealt to you during a successful attack. Also, I really don't want to use swords and stuff in Bloodlines, it breaks character IMO. 21st century L.A. and swords? Where would my character learn how to use them? No-no, fists, tire iron and a wooden bat is as far as I can go.

You could always use trance on your opponents and then feed on them, I think trance is one of the first spells you get when you put points into Dominate. If you get unarmed or close combat fighting up to around 5 you should be able to take on the opponents you can't avoid fighting and then you can rely on stealth for the rest of them.

And defense is important, yeah. Pump a few points into Fortitude too, for good measure.

Yea, except trance doesn't work that well on hostile NPCs for some reason. I'm only putting points in Presence and Fortitude in either case, I don't like how Dominate is handled in Bloodlines.

The combat encounters in Bloodlines are not hard in my opinion and some of those skills you might take will make it even too easy. What I suggest is still go down the path of what you planned for your character and specialise him to a fault (meaning having obvious weaknesses) to make working around some situations even more enjoyable.

That's the plan.

 

[PlanHex]

Damn, I wish I understood how defense works. It seems to liken the chance of having your opponent miss you entirely... rather than reduce the damage dealt to you during a successful attack.

If memory serves, defense is the former, the soaks are the latter.

edit: Isn't there a mouse-over description you can check by the way?

 

[Kiree]

Damn, I wish I understood how defense works. It seems to liken the chance of having your opponent miss you entirely... rather than reduce the damage dealt to you during a successful attack.

From what I've gathered, defense reduces damage (determined by dice rolls), and if reduced sufficiently, your character automatically performs a dodge animation. Unlike DnD, there are no separate rolls for to-hit and damage. Soak works pretty much the same as defense.

Also, I really don't want to use swords and stuff in Bloodlines, it breaks character IMO. 21st century L.A. and swords? Where would my character learn how to use them? No-no, fists, tire iron and a wooden bat is as far as I can go.

That's just fucking stupid. Did your character spend time learning how to use a tire iron in combat? Any tire iron masters around to teach him? No? Then why does he need to learn how to use a sword? Just hold the blunt end and swing the sharp edge toward the foe, and it'll be more effective than a bat. As for why they would use swords in the 21st century, it's because they supposedly are far more lethal to vampires than bullets and blunt force. And if you really don't like swords, you can use the fireaxe or bush hook. Or even just the knife, which is surprisingly effective throughout much of the game.

(edit) I almost forgot.
If you're really such a LARPer, I kindly suggest, as per official Codex guidelines, to GTFO. Or maybe you're just trolling, in which case I'm wasting my time and I hate you.

 

[Liberal]

That's just fucking stupid. Did your character spend time learning how to use a tire iron in combat? Any tire iron masters around to teach him? No? Then why does he need to learn how to use a sword? Just hold the blunt end and swing the sharp edge toward the foe, and it'll be more effective than a bat.

It's possible for a young man to swing a tire iron or a bat in combat. Anyone stupid enough to use a sword in a real fight for his life will just cut his fingers and eyeballs off, unless he's a trained specialist. Face it, bimbo, swords are archaic and redundant, there's no room for them in a game set in modern L.A. Tire irons, bats, knives, axes, etc. - maybe. But not swords.
I'll stick to my shotgun, thank you very much.

If you're really such a LARPer, I kindly suggest, as per official Codex guidelines, to GTFO. Or maybe you're just trolling, in which case I'm wasting my time and I hate you.

Lol, young, dumb, full of butthurt.

 

[Kiree]

It's possible for a young man to swing a tire iron or a bat in combat. Anyone stupid enough to use a sword in a real fight for his life will just cut his fingers and eyeballs off, unless he's a trained specialist. Face it, bimbo, swords are archaic and redundant, there's no room for them in a game set in modern L.A. Tire irons, bats, knives, axes, etc. - maybe. But not swords.

Anyone stupid enough to use a blunt weapon in a real fight against a vampire will be swiftly obliterated. Oh wait, vampires aren't real, it's just a game. Silly me.

Face it, bimbo, vampires are archaic and totally gay, there's no room for them in a game set in modern L.A.

 

[Liberal]

It's possible for a young man to swing a tire iron or a bat in combat. Anyone stupid enough to use a sword in a real fight for his life will just cut his fingers and eyeballs off, unless he's a trained specialist. Face it, bimbo, swords are archaic and redundant, there's no room for them in a game set in modern L.A. Tire irons, bats, knives, axes, etc. - maybe. But not swords.

Anyone stupid enough to use a blunt weapon in a real fight against a vampire will be swiftly obliterated.

Which is why I use firearms.

 

[Gosling]

It's possible for a young man to swing a tire iron or a bat in combat. Anyone stupid enough to use a sword in a real fight for his life will just cut his fingers and eyeballs off, unless he's a trained specialist. Face it, bimbo, swords are archaic and redundant, there's no room for them in a game set in modern L.A. Tire irons, bats, knives, axes, etc. - maybe. But not swords.

Anyone stupid enough to use a blunt weapon in a real fight against a vampire will be swiftly obliterated.

Which is why I use firearms.

Aren't bladed weapons a lot more effective against vamps than firearms in this game?

 

[Merlutz]

It's possible for a young man to swing a tire iron or a bat in combat. Anyone stupid enough to use a sword in a real fight for his life will just cut his fingers and eyeballs off, unless he's a trained specialist.

It's possible for a young man to swing a sword in combat. Anyone stupid enough to use a tire iron in a real fight for his life will just hit himself in the face and genitals, unless he's a trained specialist.

You haven't really got a leg to stand on mate
Probably lost in it a sword fight though eh?

 

[zenbitz]

Anyone stupid enough to use a sword in a real fight for his life will just cut his fingers and eyeballs off, unless he's a trained specialist.

wut

How, exactly are you going to accidentally cut off your own fingers with a sword? Are you using your other hand to "line up the shot", then swinging?

 

[Kiree]

I still suspect he's trolling. Then again, such dumbfuck logic rears its head all the time, nearly everywhere.

(edit)
"Never attribute to trolling that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."
My new motto for the day.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

What? While you obviously wouldn't be able to use a sword effectively if you weren't trained on it, it takes a special kind of retard to mutilate yourself with it.

Nunchuks, however, are another matter. I already had the displeasure of hitting my own forehead with one.

Maybe if it were swordchucks.

 

[Liberal]

It's possible for a young man to swing a sword in combat. Anyone stupid enough to use a tire iron in a real fight for his life will just hit himself in the face and genitals, unless he's a trained specialist.

How, exactly are you going to accidentally cut off your own fingers with a sword? Are you using your other hand to "line up the shot", then swinging?

I still suspect he's trolling. Then again, such dumbfuck logic rears its head all the time, nearly everywhere.

it takes a special kind of retard to mutilate yourself with it

Uhuh, yeah. Wow, thar be dumbfucks in dis thraed.

Nunchuks, however, are another matter. I already had the displeasure of hitting my own forehead with one.

And he keeps thinking one can't hurt oneself by swinging a razor-sharp feet-long blade one don't know how to handle against an armed opponent trying to kill them. Moron is not a learning animal.

 

[Mangoose]

Swords aren't razor-sharp, dumbass. Then the edge would to be too brittle. So it's dull enough that touching it won't cut you.

Thus, it takes more than just swinging a sword wildly, such as a novice would, to make a deep cut into yourself (especially through bone). There needs to be the proper velocity, force, and angle. It takes practice to even cut into a person significantly. A newbie wouldn't be able to hurt anyone, much less himself.

 

[Azrael the cat]

Warning: long post, and unnecessarily long at that.

If I may say so myself, I actually know a thing or two about sword-fighting. I've only ever done it secondary to bare-hands martial arts, but after 5 years of chinese sabre and 7 years of european stick-fighting (mainly with cane, which is used the same way as a sabre), it adds up.

Here's my opinion: unless the sword is too heavy for the wielder (in which case just stop being a macho douche and get a smaller sword) anyone, yes ANYONE, of reasonable health and fitness can wield a sword off the bat. You aren't going to be winning any fencing tournaments, but as long as you stick to easy strokes, you aren't likely to be cutting yourself.

Having said that, you'll get eaten alive by anyone with even a moderate amount of training. The reason is that the kind of strokes that come easy to a beginner are the exact kind that most styles use as their standard 'intercept and attack with a combination' drill, that they'll have drilled over and over again. Obviously this is less so with stick-fighting, as there isn't any 'weight' factor, and even so I tend to find that it takes new students - if they're training every day - a couple of months until they can wield it with enough speed to stay in the fight; it takes about a year of regular training before they've got the various standard combinations downpat and can perceive attacks coming in well enough to execute them, and about the same length of time before they can really start to think strategically.

With a sword you've got to add that even with one of proper (i.e. not absurdly big) size, it takes a lot of wrist strength to do the fine cuts and small parries that you need to spar with any kind of skill. You won't get cut trying, but I find that until you've built up your wrist muscles you can't change direction with the blade quick enough, and so you're stuck doing big and easily predictable swings. Training daily, it takes most people about 6 months to get the wrist strong enough, as it isn't a muscle group that you're used to using in sport.

But that shouldn't come as a surprise - oohh someone who trains regularly will have a decent advantage over someone who has just picked up a sword for the first time! The idea that you'd cut yourself if you even tried to use a sword is utter shite. If a bunch of guys broke into your house at night and you had a sword with you that you'd never used before, then I'd say whether you're male or female, unless you have a better weapon around the sword's a good bet. You'll certainly be able to swing it around enough to cause real danger to whoever you're swinging it at.

And it is much MUCH easier to use a sword than a tire iron. Swords are made to be wielded in that way, tire irons aren't. Tire irons aren't balanced, and so whilst you can whisk them around, or use them overhead, you'd have to be really really good to execute any kind of fine movements with them.

Now add to that that Bloodlines involves uber-strong vampires who don't need to worry about building wrist strength. It stands to reason that they'd pick up swordwork a fuckload quicker. Putting a few points into melee doesn't make him a fencing champion - it just means that he's done a bit of practice swinging the thing around, which would be more than enough when combined with uber strength. If you've maxed out melee, then chances are that he's either taking fencing lessons, is being taught by another vampire, or was a fencer in his lifetime and is adjusting to using his newfound strength with his old skills - just like if you max out guns you could give some explanation along the lines of being a gun nut and practicing heaps at the pistol range.

Or heck, just say it's a crpg and stop worrying. I didn't notice or care how my characters were getting instantly stronger or more knowledgable of magic every time they levelled up in BG2 - I just assumed that the level system was an abstraction of those details.

 

[hakuroshi]

That's why swords got out of fashion in real life.
But in Masquerade setting you sometimes may not have time to fire. Especially if a running dude with a sword has Celerity

Also game (Jack at the tuturial) states that bullets hardly affect vampires. Even if it is not really true - Colt works just fine - there is some reason to use swords in game even for LARPers.

 

[Brotherman Bill]

It is entirely seemly for a young man killed in battle to lie mangled by the bronze sword. In his death all things appear fair.

BTW firearms is better against humans and swords are better agains supernatural stuff

 

[Clockwork Knight]

And he keeps thinking one can't hurt oneself by swinging a razor-sharp feet-long blade one don't know how to handle against an armed opponent trying to kill them. Moron is not a learning animal.

ja, because swords are flexible enough to do a 180º midair and hit you on the face

Do you hit yourself with the bat every time you play baseball?

 

[Gosling]

Do you hit yourself with the bat every time you play baseball?

Probably he does.

 

[Marsal]

It seems Liberal put all of his skill points in trolling.

 

[Pliskin]

Now add to that that Bloodlines involves uber-strong vampires who don't need to worry about building wrist strength. It stands to reason that they'd pick up swordwork a fuckload quicker. Putting a few points into melee doesn't make him a fencing champion - it just means that he's done a bit of practice swinging the thing around, which would be more than enough when combined with uber strength. If you've maxed out melee, then chances are that he's either taking fencing lessons, is being taught by another vampire, or was a fencer in his lifetime and is adjusting to using his newfound strength with his old skills - just like if you max out guns you could give some explanation along the lines of being a gun nut and practicing heaps at the pistol range.

As someone who actually did spend a few years practicing fencing technique (foil and épée), I can assure you I did not ever "swing the thing around". It's all about the little point at the end, and how fast you can poke somebody with it. And while a flexible wrist and a quick arm are important, you'll find that a good fencer is like a good dancer; it's mostly in the legwork.

 

[Sceptic]

[

Awesome sword by the way.