Top Secret Alpha Protocol Info

[Trash]

Pretty cool article actually. Though it has that certain Deus Ex flavor it also seems to have a lot in common with the classics in the genre like Floor 13 and Covert Ops. I really hope they'll pull it off.

 

[Kingston]

Yea reading this article is making me a lot more optimistic. "You'll only get to talk once" sounds pretty cool, I don't remember that in other rpgs really.

 

[Jaime Lannister]

The whole "all you have is a list of names, now go save the world" thing sounds very Fallout-y.

I like the dialogue idea. Instead of Bioware's "choose every dialogue line, but they all do the same thing", you have a more non-interactive system, but in exchange the dialogue is truly branching.

 

[mjorkerina]

Oh yeah, because the best meter to measure the goodness of a RPG is to compare it to the worst and then say "you see, it's not as bad, so it's good". Fail. Bioware is not the gem you should use to measure the quality of the competition.

Hell, MoTB from Obsidian managed to get meaningful dialogue trees right. Fallout and Arcanum did too. All of them with lotsa skill checks.

 

[Jaime Lannister]

Oh yeah, because the best meter to measure the goodness of a RPG is to compare it to the worst and then say "you see, it's not as bad, so it's good". Fail. Bioware is not the gem you should use to measure the quality of the competition.

Hell, MoTB from Obsidian managed to get meaningful dialogue trees right. Fallout and Arcanum did too. All of them with lotsa skill checks.

Fail. In all of those games there are "choose the tone of conversation but the NPC says the same exact thing regardless" moments, though not as many as in Bioware games. So Alpha Protocol is an improvement.

 

[MetalCraze]

how do you know it won't happen to Alpha Protocol, considering ME and Fahrenheit are their inspiration?

 

[Jaime Lannister]

how do you know it won't happen to Alpha Protocol, considering ME and Fahrenheit are their inspiration?

Well none of us know. But MCA and Mitsoda have always delivered.

 

[mjorkerina]

Don't choke on Chris cock.

 

[crakkie]

Fail. In all of those games there are "choose the tone of conversation but the NPC says the same exact thing regardless" moments, though not as many as in Bioware games. So Alpha Protocol is an improvement.

Yes, moments. So how does excluding everything but that necessarily make this an improvement?

 

[slipgate_angel]

Pff, I don't mind Obsidian trying something new from the typical "old school" RPG norm. Besides, you have to look from there point of view, because the guys at Obsidian actually enjoy games like Mass effect, Oblivion ((though I'm not sure where skyway saw that)) and Uncharted: drakes fortune. So why must they develope old school RPGs all the time? Why not try something different for a change?

I'm still wanting my Aliens RPG, but this is another thing I look foward too.

 

[Edward_R_Murrow]

I really can't see how some people are defending the absolutely skullfuckingly retarded dialogue system. Sure, the whole "all paths lead to a different outcome" is nice, but that doesn't vindicate the system as a whole as it is more indicative of Obsidian not being total lazy asswipes like, say Bioware, and throwing in tons of "false choices".

First off, one is limited to only three choices at any juncture with this system, which is a cap dialogue trees do not share. Second, it seems to have no room for dialogue skills or the active use of them as even if they can be implemented, you'll never really know you are using them or have a choice whether or not to use them. Third, it's worse than Mass Effect in the whole idea that the player has no idea what their character will say. Whereas in Mass Effect, you had a rough idea of what Shepard is going to say based on a small summary like phrase, Alpha Protocol gives you a huge demeanor that could go in any direction and takes a lot of control over the character away from the player for that "cinematic" bullshit. And fourth, it's a degeneration of dialogue from a critical gameplay element, like in Fallout, Torment, Arcanum, and Mask of the Betrayer to what is essentially a mildly interactive cutscene.

The whole argument of everything being okay because there will be different outcomes for each choice is asinine as well. One is basically saying that because other games have had poorly implemented dialogue tree systems, this idiotic one is good because it is not half-assed. The four rationales in the above paragraph are the reasons that this system can never match the potential of a good dialogue tree.

If dialogue doesn't really allow one to shape their character the way they want to, then what else will? It seems as though the focus is on action, so I assume it will only allow a person to choose what kind of killing machine their character is.

This is beginning to look worse than Mass Effect as far as role-playing goes, and I'm a little confused as to why the Codex hasn't come down on this game with full force like the Codex did with Mass Effect. Sure, the fact that it' Obsidian and the fact they've done some decent to great stuff in the past and have a lot of pedigree might explain it, but that doesn't mean they can't fuck up beyond all recognition. Just look at Neverwinter Nights 2 and the original campaign. All the talent of Obsidian and it ended up a buggy, dumbed-down, and uninteresting PoS. Their "great writing and dialogue" didn't ride in and save the day there, so don't assume it will be in Alpha Protocol by default.

I know Obsidian has the talent to make something like this work and be great, I'm just not fully confident they will. I'm rooting for them, but I can't help but feel they have made some awful blunders right out of the gate.

 

[MetalCraze]

Oblivion is one of MCA's favorite games - according to his posts at myspace.

like how may old-school rpgs did Obsidian make?
KotOR2? nah
NWN2? hack'n'slash cliche for kids
MotB - yes - but it was too short and an add-on
Aliens RPG? not old-school
AP - not old-school

so it's 1 vs 4.

 

[amorax]

Oh Jesus Christ. This is bloody pathetic. I thought RPG codex was supposed to be about delivering fair and unbiased judgements on RPG games? Instead, it seems to be more about sexually frustrated 40 year-old men living in their mother's basements doing nothing but bitching about anything and everything. And now it seems not even the companies you people idealized and practically worshipped as gods are safe from this melodramatic, over-exaggerated pessimism. This game is an ACTION RPG, not just an RPG. It's not about in-depth dialogue trees and infinite types of character builds, though those things would certainly be nice. Also, how exactly does using a stream-lined dialogue tree change anything? It's not like they're throwing choices out the window. In fact, it sounds like they're doing exactly the opposite; encouraging people to get the most out of the game by choosing different stances, as indicated by that bit about 'rewarding players who use more than one stance'. Grow up you guys, gaming can't remain in the 1990's forever.

 

[Amasius]

I thought RPG codex was supposed to be about delivering fair and unbiased judgements on RPG games?

GnihihiHIHIHIHIHI! That was a good one.

 

[Andhaira]

Obsidian is doomed to never be able to do anything on their own; they will forever be picking up Bioware's leavings (and ending up sucking at that 2)

 

[Black]

This game is an ACTION RPG

That's enough to laugh at it.

 

[MetalCraze]

Also, how exactly does using a stream-lined dialogue tree change anything? It's not like they're throwing choices out the window. In fact, it sounds like they're doing exactly the opposite; encouraging people to get the most out of the game by choosing different stances, as indicated by that bit about 'rewarding players who use more than one stance'.

you're entirely correct. the variety of choices is really something incredible there. you can choose 1 stance of a 3. or even all 3 out of 3 at the same time. it's truly a wonder of evolution.

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

This game is an ACTION RPG

That's enough to laugh at it.

Bloodlines refuted this argument.

 

[mjorkerina]

This game is an ACTION RPG

That's enough to laugh at it.

Bloodlines refuted this argument.

Bloodlines is NOT an action RPG. Character skills matters even when you try to HIT someone with a GUN. Bloodlines is a true RPG in all senses, it's first person but it isn't an A-RPG.

Oblivion is an action RPG. If the player made a hit with a bow, the character made a hit, no matter its skill and stats.

Same goes for Action JRPG like Alundra whose gameplay is more similar to Zelda than anything like Final Fantasy.

 

[Edward_R_Murrow]

Oh Jesus Christ. This is bloody pathetic.

So pathetic that it's worth this post of yours huh? Some of your valuable time? Just not bloody pathetic enough for you to leave it the hell alone? Or do you just pop a hard-one from telling a bunch of people on the internet they're wrong?

I thought RPG codex was supposed to be about delivering fair and unbiased judgements on RPG games?

Then you thought wrong. It's about providing the "hardcore" perspective, the kind that is sick of seeing developers streamline and dumb down games.

Instead, it seems to be more about sexually frustrated 40 year-old men living in their mother's basements

Your originality in insults is stunning. Can't people bust out some new material every once in while? This shit is booooring and totally 90's.

doing nothing but bitching about anything and everything.

Welcome to Earth.

And now it seems not even the companies you people idealized and practically worshipped as gods are safe from this melodramatic, over-exaggerated pessimism.

You're the one who wanted fair and unbiased, but now you complain that we treat all companies with the same scrutiny? Okay...

This game is an ACTION RPG, not just an RPG. It's not about in-depth dialogue trees and infinite types of character builds, though those things would certainly be nice.

Well first off, if you actually read the article, Obsidian's boys themselves claimed that it was "a role-playing game first and foremost". I don't recall any mention by them of "action-RPG". And even so, Bloodlines was an action RPG and had some of the best dialogue trees out there, so that throws the "action RPGs don't need good dialogue" out the window there.

Also, how exactly does using a stream-lined dialogue tree change anything?

You could just actually read the stuff people have posted about it instead of asking this and seeming rather ignorant.

In fact, it sounds like they're doing exactly the opposite; encouraging people to get the most out of the game by choosing different stances, as indicated by that bit about 'rewarding players who use more than one stance'.

Or it's all bullshit and illusory choice and consequence a la KOTOR. Granted that is the extreme end of my pessimism, but it still seems like a bit of a flawed idea. It seems to me like they are making it impossible to "fail" in dialogue thus taking the gameplay aspect out of it and reducing it to "pick your flavor of cutscene".

Grow up you guys, gaming can't remain in the 1990's forever.

Tell Obsidian that. Blade Runner the adventure game circa 199-something used this exact same dialogue system, and the third person shooter is nothing new either.

 

[amorax]

you're entirely correct. the variety of choices is really something incredible there. you can choose 1 stance of a 3. or even all 3 out of 3 at the same time. it's truly a wonder of evolution.

NWN2 had loads of dialogue options, however, they all pretty much amounted to the same thing. Having 'only' three choices is no biggie to me as long as they mean something. Also, once more, it's an ACTION RPG, not bloody fallout.

 

[Annonchinil]

yeah i'm hoping for that too. Should be quite fresh.
Bond-like would be terribly cliched. I'm leaning more towards serious espionage minus the romantic part. But there's no way they gonna leave it out eh? As long they don't go the path of Metal Gear Solid (No fucking way that game is espionage but they put it on the CD Case Cover title! WHY DO YOU LIE?) of random villains with tragic past and super powers, it shd be great.

This looks both interesting and retarded at the same time. I hate the cover art for the main agent and how he is wearing Sketchers Sneakers. Somethings seem to be at odds at others, its as of they are trying to make a serious game and yet they are putting many silly things into it. Kind of reminds me of the style (not gameplay) of MGS except the franchise pulls it of and Robot-Ninja Raiden and Old Snake actually look cool.

 

[Ander Vinz]

it seems to be more about sexually frustrated 40 year-old men living in their mother's basements doing nothing but bitching about anything and everything.

Average codexer is twentysomething.

 

[MetalCraze]

you're entirely correct. the variety of choices is really something incredible there. you can choose 1 stance of a 3. or even all 3 out of 3 at the same time. it's truly a wonder of evolution.

NWN2 had loads of dialogue options, however, they all pretty much amounted to the same thing. Having 'only' three choices is no biggie to me as long as they mean something. Also, once more, it's an ACTION RPG, not bloody fallout.

sorry you're like 4 threads late. the argument "if one game had shitty dialogues it means we need to change them to something else" grew old days ago.
I wonder how everyone who protects this retarded argument forgets how good choices were in PS:T - and sometimes they are reached like ~7 meaningful choices at a time - and forgets how shitty stance system was in ME and Fahrenheit which are inspirations for AP dialogues according to Obsidian.

also Bloodlines was an action rpg and it had more choices than bloody fallout sometimes

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

This game is an ACTION RPG

That's enough to laugh at it.

Bloodlines refuted this argument.

Bloodlines is NOT an action RPG. Character skills matters even when you try to HIT someone with a GUN. Bloodlines is a true RPG in all senses, it's first person but it isn't an A-RPG.

If only player's skills matter, it's an action game. If only character's skills matter, it's an RPG. If both are important, it's an action/RPG. Bloodlines is an aRPG, a damn good one, but an action/RPG nevertheless.