To Paradox Games, or not to Paradox Games?

[Cassidy]

1eyedking. Skyrim will be full of IMMERSHUN, why are you bothering with Paradox Games if you think that "art" shit is the most important thing rather than the gameplay?

 

[MasterSmithFandango]

Why the fuck would you have to LARP in fucking strategy games anyway? And fuck your simplicity and immersion. The game is it's own reward. Seriously, you're a fucking faggot.

I think that sounds more aggressive than my actual tone. It should fall more under amusement at the guy that says Civ has superior gameplay than any anger. There are plenty of shitty "immersive" games for you to play. Enjoy the new SMAC.

 

[Trash]

Skyway and 1eyedking show themselves once again as the retards they are. Dear Skyway, wargames as a genre flourish because of history. And 1eyedking, there is more to gaming that patriotistic jingoism and glitzy graphics. Try COD, it seems to be up your alley.

Anyway, to keep things Paradox. Poor neglected Rome has finally gotten something to improve on it. The guy who made the single best mod for the game has just released the beta for the next version. Without the character events unfortunately but otherwise some sweet incline.

Here he describes what he wants to accomplish:

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/sho ... 09004b74a1

And here is the thread with the beta release.

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/sho ... 09004b74a1

 

[JarlFrank]

For me, EU3 always lacked something in its gameplay. It would be much improved by having more interesting tech research than just slider adjustment, having tactical battles a la Total War or at least a more complex battle system a la Hearts of Iron, having more stuff to build in provinces like in Vicky, having a family tree you can manage and that can cause conflicts like in Crusader Kings or at least like in Total War instead of just having King and Heir...

It always feels more like I'm just adjusting sliders and shit, there's not much to do in actual gameplay compared to Total War, Civilization or other Paradox titles like HoI, Vicky and CK, which are all excellent.

But sometimes I still start a game of EU3 + expansions even though I know it sucks and isn't really fun and then catch myself spending 4 hours on it because it's addictive even though it kinda sucks

 

[MasterSmithFandango]

Skyway and 1eyedking show themselves once again as the retards they are. Dear Skyway, wargames as a genre flourish because of history. And 1eyedking, there is more to gaming that patriotistic jingoism and glitzy graphics. Try COD, it seems to be up your alley.

Anyway, to keep things Paradox. Poor neglected Rome has finally gotten something to improve on it. The guy who made the single best mod for the game has just released the beta for the next version. Without the character events unfortunately but otherwise some sweet incline.

Here he describes what he wants to accomplish:

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/sho ... 09004b74a1

And here is the thread with the beta release.

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/sho ... 09004b74a1

Holy shit, finally released that? Sweet, going to try that out this week.

Anyway... I agree with feeling bad for Rome. There's a base to build from there.

And JF... I can somewhat agree with you on the technology, but I do disagree on the lack of gameplay. It's different, definitely, and probably not for everybody, but it takes me back to my days of Risk with friends, and then puts a lot of wonderful depth on it. Maybe one of the reasons why I think it's my favorite Pdox game is the boardgame feel of it.

 

[MasterSmithFandango]

Oh, and I think you might be acting a little unfairly to Skyway in this. He isn't expressing himself well in this topic, but I believe he means more of let the game have a historical start, but let the player dictate what happens from there.

 

[Destroid]

For me, EU3 always lacked something in its gameplay. It would be much improved by having more interesting tech research than just slider adjustment, having tactical battles a la Total War or at least a more complex battle system a la Hearts of Iron, having more stuff to build in provinces like in Vicky, having a family tree you can manage and that can cause conflicts like in Crusader Kings or at least like in Total War instead of just having King and Heir...

It always feels more like I'm just adjusting sliders and shit, there's not much to do in actual gameplay compared to Total War, Civilization or other Paradox titles like HoI, Vicky and CK, which are all excellent.

But sometimes I still start a game of EU3 + expansions even though I know it sucks and isn't really fun and then catch myself spending 4 hours on it because it's addictive even though it kinda sucks

EU is Babby's first paradox game. Easiest to play and get into.

 

[Trash]

Oh, and I think you might be acting a little unfairly to Skyway in this. He isn't expressing himself well in this topic, but I believe he means more of let the game have a historical start, but let the player dictate what happens from there.

Then he should say that. When 'communicating' through a medium like this it is almost as stupid to assume to know what someone else means without them saying it as it is to think someone else can catch the deeper gist from whatever one-liner I feel like jotting down. If you catch my meaning.

 

[MasterSmithFandango]

No, I understand, I've just seen Skyway post things of that nature before, and that tends to be what he says. My skyway.txt may be a little more up to date than yours.

 

[JarlFrank]

Well fuck this shit I'm starting another EU3 + all expansions game now, this time with Venice so I can go colonial power and am not landlocked like with Bavaria, my usual choice.

 

[1eyedking]

1eyedking. Skyrim will be full of IMMERSHUN, why are you bothering with Paradox Games if you think that "art" shit is the most important thing rather than the gameplay?

Why the fuck would you have to LARP in fucking strategy games anyway? And fuck your simplicity and immersion. The game is it's own reward. Seriously, you're a fucking faggot.

I think that sounds more aggressive than my actual tone. It should fall more under amusement at the guy that says Civ has superior gameplay than any anger. There are plenty of shitty "immersive" games for you to play. Enjoy the new SMAC.

Funny since I can actually count the number of really immersive games with just one hand.

It's apparent that to your little monkey brains "art direction" means generic military fanfare and bloom. Get some taste and then come back to talk about videogames, gentlemen.

My statement about Civilization still stands. It's like they grabbed chess and added a shitton of nondescript sliders, random shitty events, fucking mega gigantic generic board without anything of relevance, nondescript units without anything outstanding, +0.001% bonus "enactments" (read: cards), and...well, you get the point. GENERICNESS ITS EVERYWHERE The Game.


Simplicity & purity of form >>> Excess fluff.

Always. So enjoy your glorified copilot control panel experience!

PS: Really, get some fucking taste. If you like the stuff Paradox shits out then something is terribly wrong with you.

 

[1eyedking]

Let me clarify something:

I can, in all honesty, understand why some people enjoy playing SMAC, whereas I can't tolerate it since it's one of the most mind-numbing experiences I ever had in the art direction department (though it tends to happen in almost all sci-fi game I stumble upon, with some notable exceptions such as StarCraft). It's got good gameplay, with some new and interesting elements mixed in the basic Civilization formula that make for some pretty entertaining (albeit 'artistically' sterile) campaigns. All in all, if I had more tolerance for artistic mediocrity I would definitely play it more often since the game mechanics are simple yet deep enough to warrant a lot of thought into each turn.


Paradox Games players, though I can't understand. No art, no gameplay. Pure pretentiousness.

Now that I think of it it's funny that they chose that company name because the only paradox in "Paradox Games" is that they're not games at all, but glorified spreadsheet macros.

 

[Kane]

 

[MasterSmithFandango]

Wow. Okay, fair enough 1eye. Your love affair with art direction is obviously your primary concern when it comes to games, and if Pdox doesn't fit the bill, then so be it. Personally, I prefer GAMEPLAY when I play games, but art direction is as good a judge as any, I suppose.

And fuck your simplicity of form bullshit. Give the players all pertinent information and let them roll. EU3 does this very well, with absolutely zero information being hidden from the player.

 

[Destroid]

Perhaps a better use of 1eyedkings time would be browsing deviantart instead of playing videogames.

 

[GarfunkeL]

I'd love to see his reaction to Aurora

 

[Ruprekt]

1) Are you intrigued by alternate histories?

2) Did you pore over the Times Atlas of World History (or equivalent) as a kid?

3) Do you have the time for a game with a learning curve?

If you answered yes to all three then paradox games may be for you.


---


Or alternatively:

1) Do you have assburgers?

 

[Wyrmlord]

I can, in all honesty, understand why some people enjoy playing SMAC, whereas I can't tolerate it since it's one of the most mind-numbing experiences I ever had in the art direction department (though it tends to happen in almost all sci-fi game I stumble upon, with some notable exceptions such as StarCraft). It's got good gameplay, with some new and interesting elements mixed in the basic Civilization formula that make for some pretty entertaining (albeit 'artistically' sterile) campaigns. All in all, if I had more tolerance for artistic mediocrity I would definitely play it more often since the game mechanics are simple yet deep enough to warrant a lot of thought into each turn.

How do you even post with your head up your ass? Do you use a periscope?

 

[GarfunkeL]

Wyrmie made a funny! Everybody look - Wyrmie made a funny!

:honourblade:

 

[Burning Bridges]

I will not bash Paradox, because I like only turn based games. But Paradox needs to fire a lot of people, especially the guy who designed the map engine.

Sure their latest hardware accelerated 3d/2d engine is impressive but what good is it if they have no clue how to make use of it?

This is an example of what you will deal with in Paradox latest offerings:

and another example of a map that is more simple yet also more intuitive and visually attractive:

How hard is it by comparison to get an overview of important information, the size and quality of your armies and leaders, etc?

I think in their heart of hearts Paradox is an enterprise software company, but they went into games design. Their games have a lot of depth but they still have no clue in the art / UI department.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Yea, there's a big difference there: The one from Sengoku looks way better, has way more strategic depth due to the larger number of provinces, and shows that you have a lot more stuff you can do.

 

[Burning Bridges]

way more strategic depth due to the larger number of provinces, and shows that you have a lot more stuff you can do.

Well said, that's the mindset that I perceive among the Paradox fanbois. If the strategic map in Shogun had, let's say 70 provinces and Sengoku has 700, it has 10x more depth, right.

I'd reckon there's about as much to do in Sengoku than in STWs strategic part, minus the battles and plus all the time you spend staring at the screen, waiting for something to happen, or laboring through the interface.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

If you know anything about Paradox warfare, you'd know that the reason why a large number of provinces is good is because it influences your ability to encircle and rout your enemies, and distance changes your ability to rotate troops in battle. Add to that the fact that terrain matters a LOT when it comes to casualties, there's more to do than in TW series where the real-time battles can always be won with the same strategy (ie, in MW2 massed heavy cavalry flank charge).

And let's not even start comparing economy and politics between Paradox games and TW series, since TW is nothing if not lackluster in everything. Especially with Sengoku having a Crusader Kings style character system, which vastly outshines the one in TW.

 

[Burning Bridges]

What I said has nothing to with TW, which has deteriorated to a point where I just don't care.

All I wanted to say is that the interface in Paradox games is badly designed.

 

[Malakal]

Burning Bridges the only problem with TW games is those are not strategic games, those are not even tactical ones, those are arcade games with nice graphics and battles. And no AI at all.

Of course Pdox has horribly complicated and badly designed interface in their games. But they at least offer some fun and challenge.