The art of reading between the lines - a FO3 thread

[Vault Dweller]

Again: hope, and expectation.

Hope implies that there is a chance, no matter how small, of a positive outcome. Do you see such a chance with Bethesda's Fallout 3?

Yes. Because you look too far into this. Although it *is* probable that Liam Neeson fits the role pretty well (indeed suggesting a 40-something Qui-gon-like father), it's not as if they actually wrote the role for him.

I'm not sure how to communicate this point to you, so I'll try caps:
THAT'S WHAT THEY STATED IN THE PRESS-RELEASE. HOW ABOUT THAT?

Only in response to silly points like "he is an important character in the game because the manual says so!"

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you had the ability to read in context. As that was a response to your claiming that he wasn't helping you throughout the game. Which, you know, that *does* prove.

*shakes head* Wait, so, the fact that manual says the Overseer is there to help you somehow proves your claims that he does help you? Did I get this right?

He suggests places to go next to, for instance.

It's been awhile since I played the game. Can you be more specific?

He told you 'The vault's going to die in 150 days, unless you prevent it.' Yes, that's pretty damned important, and that little introductory movie introduced the whole story.

Is there any quest that doesn't sound important? Important quests and characters providing dramatic tones throughout the game are two different things.

Also, your addressing of the point makes it seem as if 'he sends you to vault 15' is the only thing he does and that that was my only point. Again: he features as a go-to-guy throughout the entire game, he introduces the main plot for the first half of the game, he does that again for the second half (even if you haven't encountered the mutants yet), he delivers arguably the most powerful plot twist in the game and ends the game.

My point is he doesn't have to be the go-to guy unless you choose to go to him every 5 minutes. He isn't a forced character. He's there to send you on your quest, and he is there to end the game officially. That's his main role.

No it isn't. He was there solely to drive you, and that he did.

Drive me how? By sending the stupid dream that everyone disregarded because it wasn't a timed quest? Come on.

 

[Vault Dweller]

By the way, i love that you asked for proof after you've written a slew of posts in this thread of wild fantasies based on two sentences in a press release.

I showed you where my conclusions came from and what they are based on. Your statement that the Codex pirates game is completely unsupported.

 

[Sander]

Hope implies that there is a chance, no matter how small, of a positive outcome. Do you see such a chance with Bethesda's Fallout 3?

It does? I wasn't aware of that.

I'm not sure how to communicate this point to you, so I'll try caps:
THAT'S WHAT THEY STATED IN THE PRESS-RELEASE. HOW ABOUT THAT?

I'm not sure how to communicate this point to you, so I'll try caps:
DON'T BE SILLY, ALMOST NO ONE WRITES PARTS FOR A SINGLE ACTOR. HOW ABOUT THAT?

*shakes head* Wait, so, the fact that manual says the Overseer is there to help you somehow proves your claims that he does help you? Did I get this right?

Er..yes, yes it does.

It's been awhile since I played the game. Can you be more specific?

He'll tell you to find the water chip and its general direction, he tells you of the existence and general direction of the Military Base, he tells you of the Master and his general direction.

Is there any quest that doesn't sound important? Important quests and characters providing dramatic tones throughout the game are two different things.

Yeah, except that this quest features throughout most of the game. And once you finish it, he introduces another quest that features for the entire rest of the game.

My point is he doesn't have to be the go-to guy unless you choose to go to him every 5 minutes. He isn't a forced character. He's there to send you on your quest, and he is there to end the game officially. That's his main role.

I disagree, as I've said. He's also there to guide you along if you need guidance.

Drive me how? By sending the stupid dream that everyone disregarded because it wasn't a timed quest? Come on.

Yep, that's how. Also, the deal with telling you where to go after the village gets raided.
Granted, he was largely annoying and wasn't as important as the Overseer in the first game.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Your arguments stand considering previous Bethesda production, but you are jumping to conclusions nonetheless.

Which is why the name of the thread is "reading between the lines" and not "scientifically proven facts".

Your reasoning is the same that prevents ex cons to re-integrate society. You're more than a little biased here.

Well, it's not like Bethesda admitted that Oblivion was a very flawed, overhyped game and showed signs of approaching to Fallout 3 differently.

 

[taxacaria]

The only hope I have left is a hope that FO3 will be a decent action game, like Stalker. No more than that. I can name quite a few posters here who share these sentiments.

Maybe FO3 becomes a decent game, but 'decent' is a stretchable term.
There are many people saying Oblivion is decent or even TEH GREATEST GAME EVAR.
The central question is : Will FO3 satisfy the expectations of the Fallout fans?
If the answer is yes, that would mean Bethesda's current dev team is able and willing to develope a cult game which is true to the franchise.
Considering the known facts (console platforms, first person view, Oblivion team, Todd Howard etc.) no one who has any sense for reality can have such expectations.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Hope implies that there is a chance, no matter how small, of a positive outcome. Do you see such a chance with Bethesda's Fallout 3?

It does? I wasn't aware of that.

I'm happy to work with you on improving your education. Here are some examples. Do you hope that Troika comes back from the dead and finish that PA game? Do you hope that the Black Isle guys get together one afternoon and finish Van Buren? No? Why not?

Also, from a dictionary:
Hope - the feeling that what is wanted can be had.

I'm not sure how to communicate this point to you, so I'll try caps:
THAT'S WHAT THEY STATED IN THE PRESS-RELEASE. HOW ABOUT THAT?

I'm not sure how to communicate this point to you, so I'll try caps:
DON'T BE SILLY, ALMOST NO ONE WRITES PARTS FOR A SINGLE ACTOR. HOW ABOUT THAT?

I'm not aware of what's customary in Hollywood. I only know that that was what Bethesda openly stated. The highlight is mine, of course.

*shakes head* Wait, so, the fact that manual says the Overseer is there to help you somehow proves your claims that he does help you? Did I get this right?

Er..yes, yes it does.

No further questions.

He'll tell you to find the water chip and its general direction, he tells you of the existence and general direction of the Military Base, he tells you of the Master and his general direction.

Who? The Overseer? How does he know of the Master? He never left the vault, didn't he? Anyway, I'll replay Fallout one day. Let's assume that you are correct for now.

 

[Seboss]

Right. Well, it's a nice anti-Bethesda campaign you got running here.
I might sound like I'm in denial or plain stupid but I'll cling to my tiny bit of hope for some more if you don't mind.
Meanwhile, please make AoD closer to completion. That's something worth making a point of

 

[Vault Dweller]

I might sound like I'm in denial or plain stupid but I'll cling to my tiny bit of hope for some more if you don't mind.

Let's hope that you are right then.

 

[Black]

I think Overseer gets to know about the Master and muties from VD's report...
Anyway, I hardly consider it as a 'driving'... It's just little sucky hint

Maybe FO3 becomes a decent game, but 'decent' is a strechable term.

Yah, even if FO3 will become really decent (considered good even by NMA and Codex -,-) it doesn't mean it wil be decent Fallout game

I think FO:Tactics was pretty good... tactical game
I don't really consider it Fallout game

 

[Sander]

I'm happy to work with you on improving your education. Here are some examples. Do you hope that Troika comes back from the dead and finish that PA game? Do you hope that the Black Isle guys get together one afternoon and finish Van Buren? No? Why not?

Yes, yes, N/A.

Also, from a dictionary:
Hope - the feeling that what is wanted can be had.

Also, from a dictionary:
Hope:
[..]
7. to believe, desire, or trust

I'm not aware of what's customary in Hollywood. I only know that that was what Bethesda openly stated. The highlight is mine, of course.

I'm sorry, but I do not think Bethesda's writers are capable of such a montrosity as writing a character for a specific actor. *shrugs* You may fault me for that.

Who? The Overseer? How does he know of the Master? He never left the vault, didn't he? Anyway, I'll replay Fallout one day. Let's assume that you are correct for now.

Thank you.
As for the Overseer, he doesn't say it in so many words, but he does say that the Mutants seem to be coming from the northwest (ie. the Military Base), and if you've defeated those, that there has to be a controlling mind somewhere to the south (or something similar).

 

[denizsi]

Didn't Fallout 2 feature a woman who was your aunt in Arroyo? I can't remember.

And she was important because..? You can't expect such an insignificant character, trivial at best, to be voiced by high-profile actors, can you?

Like what? Also what makes him a father-like figure?

For him, it must have been the white hair and the beard. Lol.

The 38 lines text dialoque has more to do with the technichal limitations of the Xbox 360.

Technical limitations of the X-Box 360? You gotta be kidding. Technical limitations of the brains at Bethesda sounds better.

As for starting the game as character that have been chosen, you seem to be fine with this in Planescape: Torment or in the Gothic series. Why then, aren't you fine with this in Fallout 3??

So you think the quality of those games, writing, dialogues, quests, is on par with Bethesda's games, so much so that you can realistically make such elementary comparisons between them? And Bethesda has proven themselves to be on par in future as well?

it's not as if they actually wrote the role for him.

By the way, i love that you asked for proof after you've written a slew of posts in this thread of wild fantasies based on two sentences in a press release.

What the fuck more do you need to believe anything? With people like you, Bethesda could just as well make a press statement where they literally say "we don't give a shit about Fallout or what you think, we just want to make as much money possible and we know that you will buy anything we put out you fucking cocksucker!" and you'd still be saying "it's not like they said they don't care about what Fallout!".

Ah c'mon. You are looking for any occasion to pounce at Bethesda and you're perfectly free to do this.
Your arguments stand considering previous Bethesda production, but you are jumping to conclusions nonetheless.We just don't have enough material about the game itself to make any conclusion yet.

Your reasoning is the same that prevents ex cons to re-integrate society. You're more than a little biased here.

Would you vote for Bush for a third term, if it were possible, or made possible through constitutional changes?

I'm not sure how to communicate this point to you, so I'll try caps:
DON'T BE SILLY, ALMOST NO ONE WRITES PARTS FOR A SINGLE ACTOR. HOW ABOUT THAT?

Lars Von Trier in an interview about Manderlay, the follow up to his previous, excellent movie, Dogville.

The character of Grace is played by whoever plays her. The script was written for Nicole Kidman, so when it turned out not to be her, the character had to change according to the new actress, Bryce Dallas Howard

This is the first example to come to my mind, but I'm sure there are hundreds of examples, and mind you that, this is not even Hollywood. I'm sure it's common practice in Hollywood.

 

[Black]

And she was improtant because..?

Because thanks to her you could get sharpened spear, l0lz!

 

[Seboss]

Didn't Fallout 2 feature a woman who was your aunt in Arroyo? I can't remember.

And she was improtant because..? You can't expect such an insignificant character, trivial at best, to be voiced by high-profile actors, can you?

Uriel Septim is exactly this in my opinion.

Yeah, yeah, bashing Oblivion and hoping for the best for Fallout 3. Pretty contradicting huh.

*snip*
Your reasoning is the same that prevents ex cons to re-integrate society. You're more than a little biased here.

Will you vote for Bush for a third term?

The candidate I did not vote for was elected in the recent French elections. Now that the guy is President, I sure hope he will work his ass off to keep his promises. There's nothing I can do about it now anyway except giving him some constructive input.

 

[sportforredneck]

I'm not sure how to communicate this point to you, so I'll try caps:
DON'T BE SILLY, ALMOST NO ONE WRITES PARTS FOR A SINGLE ACTOR. HOW ABOUT THAT?

I'm not aware of what's customary in Hollywood.

Well in Hollywood, depending on things, parts are written with people in mind quite a bit(obviously not everytime), it's just that they don't always take the part anyway, nor would they always be able to.

 

[Joe Krow]

The fact that Liam Neesan will play your father tells us one thing: Your character will have the same pre-game story every time you play and no matter what you play. This will restrict your ability to fantasize a history for yourself but will not necessarily make the game any more linear beyond that. Every game has a few characters you are forced to interact with. We are expecting a plot of some kind, right? The sky is not falling... yet.

 

[Mr Happy]

Lars Von Trier in an interview about Manderlay, the follow up to his previous, excellent movie, Dogville.

hoho, Quinton Taratino for Samuel L Jackson in Pulp Fiction

As for starting the game as character that have been chosen, you seem to be fine with this in Planescape: Torment or in the Gothic series. Why then, aren't you fine with this in Fallout 3??

PS:T =/= fallout

 

[denizsi]

The candidate I did not vote for was elected in the recent French elections. Now that the guy is President, I sure hope he will work his ass off to keep his promises. There's nothing I can do about it now anyway except giving him some constructive input.

No, I specifically asked if you would vote for Bush for a third term, now that he's nearing the end of his term and after so many years spanning two terms, it's pretty obvious what he has done with his time.

 

[dagorkan]

Didn't Fallout 2 feature a woman who was your aunt in Arroyo? I can't remember.

And she was important because..? You can't expect such an insignificant character, trivial at best, to be voiced by high-profile actors, can you?

No, that wasn't the point. This was earlier in the discussion and was meant to show that you were constrained in the age-group of your character as well as being a tribal. The woman was (in my mind) portrayed as being in her 60 or 70s, which meant you couldn't (barring unconventional sexual practices) be older than your mid 40s. Your age was also constrained (in my mind) by the fact that at the start of the game you've just attempted the Trial - trials which for traditional cultures are usually a 'rite of adulthood'.

So your social/background was fixed, your age was constrained, your specialized skills were constrained (where would you have learned computer tech/car repair?). So you couldn't roleplay a sixty year old anti-tribal racist with a scientific background.

I think constraining the player to some degree is necessary and desirable in a game. I would prefer that you have a range of choices but expecting to be able to roleplay absolutely anybody and anything is stupid. If you don't find a character type that is actually playable that you like then you can play another game.

Personally I didn't like the limits/setting of Fallout 2 but I dealt with it. I typically role-played a young (18-25) tribes(wo)man skilled at speech, wilderness and melee fighting, brighter than the average, socially adaptable and curious about the outside world. That fits with the gameplay and how NPCs react to you.

Fallout 1 was superior because you did have more freedom of character types but comparing Fallout 3 (on the premises others have suggested) with Fallout 2 isn't such a stretch.

 

[Seboss]

No, I specifically asked if you would vote for Bush for a third term, now that he's nearing the end of his term and after so many years spanning two terms, it's pretty obvious what he has done with his time.

Ok. My answer would be no, of course. But I don't think that analogy fits too well to our situation. Bethesda is the only candidate after all. I guess abstention is still an option but it doesn't do any good.

 

[sportforredneck]

it's pretty obvious what he has done with his time.

Further the Zionist Plot?

 

[dagorkan]

No, eating pretzels and saying "God Bless America!" (I wanna ask him, who the fuck are you to give God orders?)

 

[Lurkar]

Why the fuck do people keep bringing up FO2? We've all but disowned it, and yet it still comes up.

"Fallout 2 had an aunt!"
"Yeah, well, Fallout 2 had a lot of bullshit."
"But Fallout 2 also had Marcus!"
"Like I said. A lot of bullshit."
"But Fallout 2 had those scientologists!"
"Are you even reading what I'm typing out?"
"But...but...Fallout 2!"

 

[dagorkan]

Because, faggot, a lot of so-called fans, including many of the 'hard-core' ones at NMA define Fallout by F2.

Just who is this 'we' you're ranting about?

Look at Fallout fans in general, without your blinders on: at least 50% of them will say F2 is the superior game with 25% saying they prefer F1. That's been my experience and you clearly see it on the Beth forums.

According to these standards what is proposed for/imputed to Fallout 3 isn't such a big jump.

 

[franc kaos]

And she was improtant because..?

Because thanks to her you could get sharpened spear, l0lz!

No spears in Fallout 3 'cos they're hard to animate.

No location damage 'cos it's an RPG, dig?

No nudity, but maybe a little blood.

No rocket launcher 'cos no deformable scenery.

Vehicles maybe, but you'll be able to run faster.

Long view distance but irritating popup of ruins and stuff.

Off topic - Neeson also played Aslan (the lion), real cool father figure / God type voice, "You can feel the force in everything young Anakin/Susan." Also Silent Hill <computer>, I figure the money was good.

 

[sportforredneck]

Off topic - Neeson also played Aslan (the lion), real cool father figure / God type voice, "You can feel the force in everything young Anakin/Susan." Also Silent Hill <computer>, I figure the money was good.

Neeson always plays the father figure and always dies as the father figure.