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Tactics Ogre: Reborn - remaster based on 2010 release

somerandomdude

Learned
Joined
May 26, 2022
Messages
665
Spekkio's analysis of Tactics Ogre Reborn is pretty well spot-on, and I agree with 85-90% of it.

I do disagree that there's no "builds" in the original. Builds were defined as min-maxing your stat growth at level ups depending on how you intended to use that character. For example, you wanted a class like Terror Knight to have some level ups as Ninja to boost their accuracy with weapons, otherwise they were total shit. Also, mages were extremely powerful in that game, so it was worth balancing their stats a little, and it didn't really take anything away from their offensive potential by doing this in a smart way.
 

Taim

Educated
Joined
Dec 30, 2020
Messages
72
Well to add a counterpoint to the current theme of shitting on this remake:
Didn't play SNES, played PSP and got to chapter 2 before burning out.

I have a special brand of autism that suffers from decision paralysis like crazy - so the PSP versions 900 skills, cumbersome UI (UI is the same reason - and only reason - I haven't beaten Vagrant Story), and slow as hell battles turned me off.

The remake, however, is one of three games I've played 50+ hours of this year. And I'm still going strong. The interface and customization stuff has depth while being pretty accessible. There's definitely some things that rub me the wrong way:
  • the build porn is a little too softcore (there's not enough of it)
  • the way classes work now most units feel very "same-ey" (at least in the beginning before you get all the unique classes tied to units)
  • the game is still a little too easy - although it's gotten MORE challenging in Chapter 4 at least - and the Oz/Ozma fight in chaos was spicy.

But overall it strikes a good balance for me between being accessible and having depth to scratch the right part of my brain - and the story/dialogue is good which helps make up for some of its shortcomings.

Troubleshooter is very well architected mechanically but it was hard for me to put more than 15 hours into it because I just didn't give a fuck about the setting or the characters.


Maybe one day I'll play the SNES version, realize it does everything better, and feel foolish about wholeheartedly endorsing this remake - but I doubt it.
 

Sarissofoi

Arbiter
Joined
Mar 24, 2017
Messages
761
Worst of two worlds.
Take your nostalgia tinted glasses off man.
If anything the Reborn would be much better if it cut off more of remnants from both of versions(especially PSP but also Snes one too). Like random drops or filler grinding.
Anything you trow at reborn could be say about either PSP or Snes version(often of both) and often with much more weight to it.
> Snes didn't have builds
It have but based around stats growths per level based on class, like you trained your future Witch as a Archer becasue of Dex affecting accuracy of Status Spells(why Harborim was the best man to turn enemy into stone statutes) or train your terror Knights as Ninjas. Sure, I miss character/gender/stat restrictions but hell. It looks like you have severe cause of culture shock and didn't give game any real chances to defend itself. It sure have problems but you mostly missed them.
PSP versions go into total class homogenization because you just picked skills you wanted and in the end you ended with same builds and party compositions. Not even mentioning this terribly class leveling system.
Class in reborn at last have it specific functions. Fighter are first line combatants, Knights are tanks with movement reducing abilities, berzerkerz can be total beasts(and waste enemy or/and your team), Archers are good at picking enemy no armored units and putting statuses on them, Ninjas are status delivery machines etc. Sure there is some much better Unique classes but as far as it go each class have more or less specific niche.
And sure some skills have rather niche usage but still can be useful for the specific battle(like resist Petrify would be great to have in fight against flying Cockatrices - and Scout option exist for this sole reason).
The real MVP in this version are Rune fencers who have mobility, offensive capability, spears, support and healing spells and MEDITIATE to drown in MP.
they all get same amount of EXP after surviving the mission. So, after you hit the cap (grinding, story mission), all the gained EXP is lost.
Wrong. The exp go into underleveled characters. So if you get all outside one character at level cap - all exp would go directly to him, making leveling underleveled troops really fast, and in training mode they can be even taken out and still get it. Also spare exp get turned into EXP charms that can be used to level up Guests and Zombified units that normally don't get exp at all.
Level cap is also one of the best addition even if done in wonky way. It forces players to actually learn the game and use tools and not grind and overlevel enemy and brute force it. Its not a hard game tbh.
Mages can't dual-wield now
They can. They can dual wield one handed weapons. Maybe you tried dual wield two handed staffs.
  • Neverending spoils from combat. Remember getting maybe a herb once in a long while in Snes version? Not this time - every killed fag gets you his/her full set of gear and items. After all, players love management and spoils...

BS. Sometimes they drop nothing(rarely), sometimes just some coins or shoes(or whatever) and tbh what even is this complain for? Did you bitch about this in PSP version too? I doubt it. If anything RNG drops are fucking cancer and I wish they actually drop everything.
  • HP / MP bloat. Use cards or these two useful skills mentioned above to kill enemies quickly. Yawn.
The bloat thing is true(somewhat). They could cut it by factor of 5(both growth and damage too) and it would be fine. Still its not a real issue. Also you sure talk a lot for somebody who didn't even finish tutorial in Reborn.
There's a shitload of skills related to enemy recruitment now, so it's clear that devs wanted this mechanic to be an important one. Problems: it doesn't work ingame (very low chance of success) + why would you need
It work. You can get 40% in good conditions(CLOSE, enemy heavy wounded, no some statuses(like Charm or petrify) up close(important). I did recruit dozens of enemy characters just to strip them from their equipment(it also boost your Chaos Frame) also you can auction beasts and dragons for cash and stat boosting food.
  • "Enhanced" character sprites look fucking horrible. Like they were resized using Eagle, xBR or other AIDS. Make filtering tweakable or GTFO, don't permanently "enhance" base sprites, FFS!
It looks fine on smaller monitors and Handhelds. also you get used to it pretty quick. In the end it don't really matter.
  • To add insult to injury, you have to watch long "unit picks up a card" animation every time you move your unit onto the tile with a card. Even if you cancel your move eventually. Who develops shit like this?
Speed up and simple animations option exist - you know in OPTIONS and you can change it. Still you can just start Cheat Engine and it Speed Hack(double speed make it really fine). All Tactics game I played were fucking slow, Snes, PSP, PSX(my god), Kol on GBA all of them were better played on emulators with speed up option ON. If you want talk shit about reborn being not quick enough - its fine, could be much faster - its still the only one version with in build speed up and simplified animations.
Battlefield is now dotted with various cards: temporary bonuses / penalties to stats, permanent bonuses
Yep. It looks like shit. Not very immersive. Still it make for more interesting battle field situation that you need to react tho. Not a big fan of mechanics but its core mechanic and if you remove it in this stage you would probably gimp player too much(as enemy bosses often come preloaded with these cards). in the end its part of package and better to learn to use it as some later battles will give you run for its money.

In the end its fine game. Voice acting really add to the game and definitely make it more immersive(maybe outside Lancelot one). Class system could use more restrictions and less skills, levels could be squished, some classes could get some more love but overall its solid gamme. Much more better than PSP version with its grind, grind, grind attitude
Dunno why people get so angry about things that they are either wrong about or have no idea.
 
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Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
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Messages
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Copenhagen
Grunker said:
[game] is exceedingly simple, often too easy (the more I play the more I miss that Necromancer encounter...) and lacks variety. There's a lot of simple value there, but I have a hard time seeing this as one of the greats beyond its value as a design reference. Even with a bigger mixing and matching of skills (which is less of a case than most people imply, since weapons grant some of those skills passively), I don't think I'd suddenly turn around and say "wow OK now this is suddenly an all time great."
If you liked this game even a bit, you should IMO try japtacticals more focused on min-maxing skills and so-called "build porn".

Two good examples IMO:

Fell Seal - "spiritual western successor" to Final Fantasy Tactics. As you can see, graphics are very indie. But gameplay is solid / AI is much more clever than in TO / vanilla FFT.

I liked Fellseal. Now, the story/characters were mostly shit, but you had a whole bunch of build options for not just human characters, but monsters as well. I liked messing around with the monster classes. When I played, I had a Harvester monster (they look like demons with 2 arm blades), and I turned one into a teleporting/backstabbing assassin who got 2 turns at the start of the battle, and procced a bonus turn whenever he killed something (only worked once per turn). That's where the game shined the most was build options, and I don't believe any other game like this has given this many options for monster builds. I had some choice paralysis with all the options the game gave me, so I actually had to test the stuff out rather than reasonably deduce what's obviously better out of the few choices given.

I'm leaning more and more towards this as my next jtac. How is the difficulty?
 

Jinn

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
4,984
On that I think we can all be agreed upon, whether we like and enjoy this version for what it is or not.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
I'm wondering what they even wanted to do with the cards and what could be a non-stupid solution. Did they want to just give the player more things to do, since the battles can get pretty slow and stodgy sometimes? Or to prevent players just being super static and turtling up / advancing very slowly? The cards do encourage you to move around and also to consider a wider variety of possible movement routes, and maybe that could have been done with time limits or something else.
 

somerandomdude

Learned
Joined
May 26, 2022
Messages
665
This is pretty much the ultimate unit right here. Dark Lord Denam with the 3pc Ogre Set and teleport movement. He's super tanky, hits like a berserker in melee, and does really good with summon spells too, because the ogre set boosts magic as well. He can solo maps pretty much. I just got done clearing 4 San Bronsa maps with him, solo. Also, notice no weapon skill + no finishers. That's because finishers are trash at level 50. And the weapon skill only gives a minor increase to attack damage, and doesn't appear to have any impact on accuracy whatsoever. I got better things to spend MP on than finishers, and better skills to slot.

ultimatedenam.jpg
 
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Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
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Joined
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Messages
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Location
Copenhagen
I'm wondering what they even wanted to do with the cards and what could be a non-stupid solution. Did they want to just give the player more things to do, since the battles can get pretty slow and stodgy sometimes? Or to prevent players just being super static and turtling up / advancing very slowly? The cards do encourage you to move around and also to consider a wider variety of possible movement routes, and maybe that could have been done with time limits or something else.

My thinking is that they recognized that due to the combat system's simplicity, positioning actually doesn't matter all that much despite the varied terrain, and correct paths are often obvious. Hence the cards to encourage more complex pathing.

What it ends up doing is clogging up the battlefield with nonsense for not much gain. It's kind of a minor issue tbh, but I agree it's ultimately a bad change. Especially since it clutters the otherwise nice and simple visuals.
 
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spekkio

Arcane
Joined
Sep 16, 2009
Messages
8,295
BROs, edited my earlier post to somehow mitigate epic levels of butthurt it caused.
BTW, since when we got crowds of easily-butthurt GG fags in our prestigious subforum? I don't remember ever getting ~20 notifications after posting in weeboo... :roll:

Anyway, decided to try the PSP version for the 3rd time (~ June I've tried both vanilla PSP & One Vision, hated UI and new skill system, deleted)... And I'm liking it a lot this time. Completing Snes version in July & seeing the failure of Reborn recently probably helped... Now I've finally "undrestood" that while you have like 9000 skills at your disposal (27 types of magic, etc), you're supposed to "learn" only a few of them / specialize your unit early. And it's now fun.

dwRjQYA.jpg

nQk40aI.jpg


:obviously:

To make things a bit faster, I've memory-edited 9999 SP for each unit, unlocked all 10 skill slots, and went back to previous values of their SPs after that. So fags can spend SP on actual skills, instead of unlocking new slots.

:smug:

Anyway, it's glorious:

QfBoEjt.jpg

kaXf4yD.jpg

LGu5eys.jpg


Bonus for using PPSSPP:

a) You can speed-up the game to any value your CPU survive with 1 or 2 keystrokes:

8pz1S9i.jpg


b) Don't like the way graphics look? Knock yourself out with postprocessing shaders or/and texture scaling:

0z12xbN.png

SC2NRPd.png


:dance:
 
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Sarissofoi

Arbiter
Joined
Mar 24, 2017
Messages
761
>Guy who calls a Reborn a failure can't even play a PSP version as it was made instead of resorting to outright cheating to reduce grind.
What a fucking surprise(its not).
Maybe stop posting like a faggot and learn to format your posts. Also reborn have its own problems but all I was did was just pointing that you are utterly wrong about plenty of things and as such your OPINION is not to be treated seriously.
nQk40aI.jpg
2dojoih.jpg
Sigh.
But whatever. Have fun whatever you playing but for the love of the gods - don't talk shit you clearly have no idea about.
> Failure of the Reborn
LOL, LMAO even.
 

spekkio

Arcane
Joined
Sep 16, 2009
Messages
8,295
You do realize I ignored your post entirely for a reason? Despite you being right in some of your points (see my edited original post)? Too bad you seem to be lacking basic reading comprehension, so there's no point answering to your posts. :roll:
 

Sarissofoi

Arbiter
Joined
Mar 24, 2017
Messages
761
Hurt your feelings? Or your pride as a gaymer?
well that is Truth for you. maybe if you don't cover your eyes you will see it next time.
I wonder from under what rock a insects like you crawl from?
> look around, notice that its RPG Codex
Ah well, my bad for coming back to this place of petty shitheads and villainy.
Farewell then
 

somerandomdude

Learned
Joined
May 26, 2022
Messages
665
You normally can't recruit these units (and a bunch of other units), and I thought it was BS that you couldn't, so I did something about that. The gorgon class is basically an upgraded matriarch class. It's a tankier mage class, not only do they got more HP and defensive stats, but they got defensive procs as well for both physical and magic. The enemy AI units get a petrify move on this unit, but I don't have it and the skill loadout is the exact same as Matriarch's. Gorgon's INT growth wasn't that high, I used about 20 or so int charms on this unit to get it closer to some of my other mages, but it's still pretty good, because I can't burn items to put ivory tower 2 on a shaman/lich, etc. Also, crystal dragons are quite good as well as just general tanks, and they can get the full line of white healing/support spells, major heal III, ease II, boon of switftness, even exorcism 1, 2 if you want it. Phoenix and rukh are both pretty decent monster units, flame breath II lands weaken, and petrify breath with Rukh. Also, RT 73 on Phoenix, these units are really fast. You can put buff these 4k HP monsters with renewal song, and they'll regen 400HP/turn, so they're pretty tanky, and make good units to proceed forward into the enemy lines with.

notrecruitable.jpg
 

notpl

Arbiter
Joined
Dec 6, 2021
Messages
1,391
Glad to hear someone's taking a saw to the game already. The modding potential is one of the most exciting things about this remaster.
 

Nortar

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Sep 5, 2017
Messages
1,416
Pathfinder: Wrath
I never touched SNES or any other filthy peasant console tool in my life.
PC master race here through and through.

I don't really appreciate this tamagotchi shit graphics, especially that silly idle animation.
But the graphics can be ignored if the game itself is good though.
And I do love me some tacticool goodness.

Is there more to the game than meets the eye on the first glance,
are the tactical battles good, is the story engaging?
In short is this a serious tactical game in a shit wrapper or just nostalgy wanking?
 

Bigg Boss

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2012
Messages
7,528
I never touched SNES or any other filthy peasant console tool in my life.
PC master race here through and through.

I don't really appreciate this tamagotchi shit graphics, especially that silly idle animation.
But the graphics can be ignored if the game itself is good though.
And I do love me some tacticool goodness.

Is there more to the game than meets the eye on the first glance,
are the tactical battles good, is the story engaging?
In short is this a serious tactical game in a shit wrapper or just nostalgy wanking?
It is not nostalgia. I played the PSP version a couple years ago. I did however love Final Fantasy Tactics.

The story is good, the tactics are not as deep as they could be but deep enough, and the flaws have likely been addressed here already with the Reborn version, so you can just wait for a sale in 10 years or pirate some shit. It's not worth the asking price but some of the changes are good while other changes I have no idea what they were thinking. Maybe it is another Mystic Quest thing or they are lazy.
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
Patron
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
27,421
Location
Copenhagen
I never touched SNES or any other filthy peasant console tool in my life.
PC master race here through and through.

I don't really appreciate this tamagotchi shit graphics, especially that silly idle animation.
But the graphics can be ignored if the game itself is good though.
And I do love me some tacticool goodness.

Is there more to the game than meets the eye on the first glance,
are the tactical battles good, is the story engaging?
In short is this a serious tactical game in a shit wrapper or just nostalgy wanking?

The story is surprisingly OK, the gameplay is way too simple in the long run
 

FreshCorpse

Arbiter
Patron
Joined
Aug 23, 2016
Messages
693
Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming!
One thing I have seen guides get wrong is that in this version the Phorampa Wildwood seems to be completely open from chapter 2. In previous versions it seems to have been locked off but no longer is and as a consequence I was able to pick up some good recruits that I don't think I'll see until later including a Swordmistress (aka Samurai) who specialise in 2h longswords and have some quite nice party buffs; a Witch are casters that pair with stone golems, which I'm now looking to recruit; and finally a pair of zombie octopuses.

The zombie octopuses utterly mash people on water levels. When zombies die they come back with full health after 3 turns unless they get exorcised, a skill most enemy clerics don't have specced.

My team in general is pretty kino at this point and the level cap keeps the fights fairly hard. I generally don't agree with the point about HP bloat, I think it makes the battles longer and a little harder because battles here are highly positional and it is a task to ensure that your troops break through enemy lines while ensuring that their troops don't. The hardest battle so far was against a pair of cockatrices in the Wildwood who could just break my line at will by flying and noshing on my clerics. Maybe the only exception was a 1v1 battle against
leonar
where I feel that most people who'd specced Denam as a caster would have found impossible
 
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Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
Phorampa does open up quite a lot further by Ch4 than it did in Ch2, you get half the maps or so before. I thought you could always get a Swordsmaster and Ninja there early, but maybe that's the change.

It's a bit weird to see team members go down and not worry about it in this game. In most cases you can actually end the battle before the 3 rounds are up, presuming someone died mid-fight, so sometimes it's efficient to just go kamikaze. At other times reviving someone gives them a turn right after, so it can actually be an advantage (e.g. kamikaze a strong boss, get hit by him and die, res up again and hit him again). But the harder maps with big strong bosses would be a nightmare to play no incap.
 

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