Storm of Zehir first impressions

[Vaarna_Aarne]

So, NWN2 combat engine is as good as TOEE combat engine?

I myself would say that calling TOEE combat engine "decent" is an understatement. It is one of the best combat engines, after all.

 

[Volourn]

"Untrue. All of the modifiers were very explicitly described, and hotlinked to the help system."

R00fles!


"Volurn... is... defending... one of my statements."

I hate SOZ. Not Obsidian, or NWN2. Afterall, if I hated NWN2 I wouldn't even bought its second expansion.

 

[LeStryfe79]

Although the Aurora Engine is poorly optimized, I do not think the combat in NWN2 is as bad as people say. Controlling an entire party in real time is a pretty tall order, and I've rarely seen it done perfectly. Most of the folks here would rather play single player RPGs, where a turn based system makes more sense. D&D uses a turn based system so there was no reason for ToEE's combat to be anything but great. NWN2, on the other hand, was meant to support multiplayer where taking turns would suck. Unfortunately the big FAIL here comes from the fact that there are ZERO official campaigns that do multiplayer any justice, and only a handful of mods for that matter. That leaves only a few thousand players roaming the persistent worlds who get anything at all out of that option. And to be honest, I've never seen a PW that felt like anything but a poor man's MMO. I for one would enjoy playing a really good campaign with my friends for a change, especially since 4th edition sucks dick.

 

[felicity]

Multiplayer games are for LARP MMOrons. Please go back to playing WOW.

I'll repeat it slowly and refrain from using the big words, so that even you can understand: words "multiplayer" and "cRPG" are mutually exclusive.

I don't play WOW, but from what I've heard, WOW is vastly different from NWW1 multiplay (at least the RP part). I fail to see how big words will compensate your logic though, your LARP and WOW analogy is remotely intelligible.

Perhaps multiplay does not cater to your play-style, that's ok, everyone can have their own preference. There are good cRPG that are multiplay, NWN1 is a good example. There was a huge RP community that are devoted to multiplay. But whatever, you will just regard those players as morons anyway.

NWN was about endless adventure, first and foremost about the toolset, dm client and multiplay. Commercial SP module is seconday though still important. Obsidian is turning it over, first priority about commercial module for, then trickle down resources to toolset, clients and MP. They broke the promise and failed to become the spiritual successor of the original NWN. They should just develop a new title if their plan is to make a SP cRPG. The more XP a game has, the harder to pull off a decent MP playerbase, for obvious reason.

 

[felicity]

Although the Aurora Engine is poorly optimized, I do not think the combat in NWN2 is as bad as people say. Controlling an entire party in real time is a pretty tall order, and I've rarely seen it done perfectly. Most of the folks here would rather play single player RPGs, where a turn based system makes more sense. D&D uses a turn based system so there was no reason for ToEE's combat to be anything but great. NWN2, on the other hand, was meant to support multiplayer where taking turns would suck. Unfortunately the big FAIL here comes from the fact that there are ZERO official campaigns that do multiplayer any justice, and only a handful of mods for that matter. That leaves only a few thousand players roaming the persistent worlds who get anything at all out of that option. And to be honest, I've never seen a PW that felt like anything but a poor man's MMO. I for one would enjoy playing a really good campaign with my friends for a change, especially since 4th edition sucks dick.

Agree completely. Micromange a squad in real-time combat = sucks. Another reason Obsidian has developed NWN2 in the wrong direction.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

failed to become the spiritual successor of the original NWN.

Which is actually a good thing, since NWN was one of the worst games ever.

 

[felicity]

failed to become the spiritual successor of the original NWN.

Which is actually a good thing, since NWN was one of the worst games ever.

It is if you completely disregard the huge ammount of community made modules, the toolset, the DM client, and the multiplayer. You are not judging fairly.

 

[Volourn]

"since NWN was one of the worst games ever."

ERROR! ERROR! ERROP!

NWN is the best game.

Even at its worst, it's not SOZZY level bad!

 

[janjetina]

Multiplayer games are for LARP MMOrons. Please go back to playing WOW.

I'll repeat it slowly and refrain from using the big words, so that even you can understand: words "multiplayer" and "cRPG" are mutually exclusive.

I don't play WOW, but from what I've heard, WOW is vastly different from NWW1 multiplay (at least the RP part). I fail to see how big words will compensate your logic though, your LARP and WOW analogy is remotely intelligible.

Perhaps multiplay does not cater to your play-style, that's ok, everyone can have their own preference. There are good cRPG that are multiplay, NWN1 is a good example. There was a huge RP community that are devoted to multiplay. But whatever, you will just regard those players as morons anyway.

NWN was about endless adventure, first and foremost about the toolset, dm client and multiplay. Commercial SP module is seconday though still important. Obsidian is turning it over, first priority about commercial module for, then trickle down resources to toolset, clients and MP. They broke the promise and failed to become the spiritual successor of the original NWN. They should just develop a new title if their plan is to make a SP cRPG. The more XP a game has, the harder to pull off a decent MP playerbase, for obvious reason.

If I wanted to play multiplayer, I'd play a regular PnP campaign, with people. NWN toolset, DM client and communication via computer can hardly replace its "live" counterparts. A computer RPG is primarily a single player experience, as such an experience can't be had anywhere else. If Neverwinter nights sole focus was its multiplayer aspect, they shouldn't have bothered with a mediocre single player campaign (or with false advertising such as the one in BG 2: something along the line of "the adventure doesn't have to be over with BG 2. You'll be able to import your BG2 character in Neverwinter nights", de facto pronouncing NWN a BG2 successor, and we know that BG2 was primarily a single player game). At least they got their act together in the last expansion.

Neverwinter nights 2 is obviously a single player oriented game, and that is good. The schizophrenic nature of the OC is due to, I presume, Ferret's work and departure in the middle of development. MOTB is the best DnD campaign on a computer after PS:T (1999.) and SOZ is an above average game with a few great concepts and yet too many flaws, that just begs to be modded for additional depth. If NWN 2 was a multiplayer oriented game, MOTB would have never been made and RPG genre, as we know it, would definitely be dead.

 

[Sodomy]

Okay, so what game -doesn't- match this criteria? By that definition, PS:T is also completely linear. And pretty much every other game I can think of.
Qwinn

Yes, PS:T is linear. Try these examples:

Arcanum- plot branches when talking to the dark elves.
Prelude to Darkness- multiple "paths" to meet up with the Goddess (dagger or infiltrate the rebellion), multiple ways to deal with the town of Jerrock.
Geneforge 1 & 2- Five different main quest possibilities in each game (six if you count the "incomplete" endings). It's arguable that there's not even a main quest- you do shit at on the island/at the settlement, leave when you please, and the ending reflects what you did.
Hammer & Sickle- Not a great game, but find a plot flowchart for it some time.

I myself would say that calling TOEE combat engine "decent" is an understatement. It is one of the best combat engines, after all.

Someone has clearly never played JA2 or Silent Storm.

 

[Lesifoere]

Finally getting around to playing SoZ.

Currently, it seems... flat. I'm still playing it, because at least it hasn't strained my patience to the point I'd uninstall it, but motivation to keep going is small.

 

[OSK]

I don't know why people are complaining about the tiny dungeons. I'm relieved every time I walk into one and see on the map it's only a few rooms big. I hate NWN combat.

So far the game seems very "meh." It's not bad, but I can't see myself really suggesting it to anyone. I really hate the absent or neutered cities. Urban areas are my favorite locations in RPGs, and I'd love to see an RPG that takes place in a single, large city. The overland map is a nice feature though. Hopefully this makes it into more RPGs.

 

[Vault Dweller]

My early impressions:
http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/in ... opic=680.0

 

[elander_]

Play it with a squadron of dwarf fighter/clerics of death and pain and kill everything in your path.

 

[Darth Roxor]

My early impressions:
http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/in ... opic=680.0

Real men supply swashbucklers with pimp hats.

 

[Imbecile]

My early impressions:
http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/in ... opic=680.0

I liked it at first, especially the map (still do), but as lesifoere said, after a while it just felt really flat. I didn't feel any particular motivation to level up, because I could just pick a level 18 party, the quests were pretty straightforward, there were few interesting characters and the dialogue choices appeared largely meaningless.

I quit just after I hit the sword coast, after I ran into my second quest breaking bug. This is unusual for me, though I plan to try again at some point in the future.

 

[OSK]

SoZ is filled with lots of great ideas--the overland map, the party conversation system, the unique dialog for certain skills, classes, races, alignments, etc. in appropriate situations--but the game itself feels kind of, I don't know, shallow. It's like the developers had all these great features they wanted to incorporate, but everything else was kind of an after thought. That'd be fine if the main selling point was the toolset and user-generated content (which judging from Bioware's NWN OC, seems to have been the original intention), but I doubt that's why most people purchased a NWN game.

I really hope Obsidian takes these features, refines them and uses them in their future RPGs. Oh, and turn-based combat please.

 

[Gylfi.Fenriz.Conquests]

My early impressions:
http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/in ... opic=680.0

So what you're saying is that even though every class and associated skills produces many variations in the dialogues and different outcomes, these outcomes don't make any real difference except what items you get in the end and are again only different dialogues?

 

[Volourn]

Thankfully, VD is likely a better developer than his current taste in games suggest. FO3, and now SOZ. GET THE FUCK OUT! Seriously, there's no way a LEGIT and TRUE role-playing or dungeon crawling fan can like SOZ. The game is plain, old fashion SOZZY. Then again, SOZ is as horrible as POR2 and people here have actually had the gall to support that game too.

Damn morons.

 

[goatvomit]

AFAIK SoZ uninstall still doesn't potentially brick your wblows so POR2 is still in a class of its own.

 

[Gylfi.Fenriz.Conquests]

Thankfully, VD is likely a better developer than his current taste in games suggest. FO3, and now SOZ. GET THE FUCK OUT! Seriously, there's no way a LEGIT and TRUE role-playing or dungeon crawling fan can like SOZ. The game is plain, old fashion SOZZY. Then again, SOZ is as horrible as POR2 and people here have actually had the gall to support that game too.

Damn morons.

His walkthru opinions on SoZ don't suggest he likes the game, to me.

Also please add a motivation everytime you bash the game, or it sounds like you just wanna show ppl how elitist you are..

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Thankfully, VD is likely a better developer than his current taste in games suggest. FO3, and now SOZ. GET THE FUCK OUT! Seriously, there's no way a LEGIT and TRUE role-playing or dungeon crawling fan can like SOZ. The game is plain, old fashion SOZZY. Then again, SOZ is as horrible as POR2 and people here have actually had the gall to support that game too.

Damn morons.

His walkthru opinions on SoZ don't suggest he likes the game, to me.

Redding is teh hart?

Just read VD's second post.

 

[Gylfi.Fenriz.Conquests]

Thankfully, VD is likely a better developer than his current taste in games suggest. FO3, and now SOZ. GET THE FUCK OUT! Seriously, there's no way a LEGIT and TRUE role-playing or dungeon crawling fan can like SOZ. The game is plain, old fashion SOZZY. Then again, SOZ is as horrible as POR2 and people here have actually had the gall to support that game too.

Damn morons.

His walkthru opinions on SoZ don't suggest he likes the game, to me.

Redding is teh hart?

Just read VD's second post.

As you can see, in most cases you get a lot of dialogue skill checks. Instead of unlocking meaningful options, they unlock meaningless options. Truly revolutionary. Think of Baldur's Gate dialogues with tons of meaningless things to say, but with skillchecks. If you want to chit-chat with people, you better have some skills. Better than nothing, but...

...........
...........
there! All gone, sir!
R I goos boee?

 

[theverybigslayer]

POR2 is a great game!!!
NWN1 is the ultimate shit!!!!!

 

[LeStryfe79]

New Year's Bump! For the sake of Sozziness!!!

(okay, I've actually just finished EVERYTHING in soz and wish there was more...)


Also, I'm quite drunk.................