Incline RPG Codex's Top 50 cRPGs - Results and Reviews

[tuluse]

Really? i remember 3 spots in the game i liked, the entire beginning including the fight in the tower, the whole deal with the possessed kid, the deep roads dwarven last stand. Everything else kinda blurs together.
I probably would have forgotten about it had the guys that made Two Worlds made it.

List me all the party based tactical RPGs Reality Pump has made.

I'll wait.

 

[Zetor]

Opinions are srs bsns. I'd put the following games before DA:O, just off the top of my head:
- Fallout 1/2/NV
- PS:T
- BG1-2
- Deus Ex, DX:HR, System Shock 2
- JA2
- Might&Magic 3-4-5
- Wizardry 6-7-8
- both Freedom Force games
- every single Gold Box game except for maybe DQK (this is ~10 games by itself)
- Ultima 6-7-SI
- Ultima Underworld 1-2
- Dark Sun 1-2
- Wasteland

and probably a few more I'm forgetting. I guess I could complain that (f'rex) Freedom Force didn't even make the top 50... but I don't really mind, nor care.

I've only played about an hour of Wasteland myself, but I did watch a great video LP of it. I don't see how it could really be considered better than DA:O.

I'm surprised you didn't pick Freedom Force vs the Third Reich from that list... but yes, that's what I meant by "opinions are srs bsns". This is probably just restating the obvious, but all this list is is a bunch of opinion that represents nothing more than a really small number of people and/or alts posting what each of them thought are the best RPGs of all time.*

Anyway, since I have 40 mins until a certain thing happens in Steam, I'll explain my reasoning, even though it's kinda pointless. I played the heck out of WL back in the day, and finding my way through the (sometimes silly and illogical) puzzles was a lot of fun. The setting was fun. Combat was also fun. Playing the entire package as it was on my C-64 (in high-school, mind) was just great. Yeah, most of that is nostalgia -- but I played the game again now that I got a copy via WL2, and it was still fun and left me wanting to play more, as opposed to quite a few games from that era I can't stomach to play anymore. That's why I gave it one point.

DA:O? Eh, I liked the setting well enough, some of the fights were OK (though honestly if I wanted tactical combat I'd play W8 or JA2 or even a console SRPG), I actually liked the entire Fade sequence in the tower... yet none of the game stuck with me enough to put it above 'decent' -- which is what it is imo. I'd even put DA:O above some other RPGs I consider at least decent, like Witcher, Arcanum, IWD, Morrowind, Gothic, KOTOR1-2, etc etc... but those'd be around #50 on my personal list.

* edit: I should add, though, that I still think making a list like this is worthwhile -- if only to bring some RPG gems to light for 'outsiders'.

 

[tuluse]

I'm surprised you didn't pick Freedom Force vs the Third Reich from that list... but yes, that's what I meant by "opinions are srs bsns". This is probably just restating the obvious, but all this list is is a bunch of opinion that represents nothing more than a really small number of people and/or alts posting what each of them thought are the best RPGs of all time.

I haven't played it, and don't know enough about it to comment.

I do want to adjust my statement. The only way I can see Wasteland being better than DA:O is if you compare it to what came before it. Wasteland did a lot of cool things for the time.

 

[Abelian]

I do want to adjust my statement. The only way I can see Wasteland being better than DA:O is if you compare it to what came before it. Wasteland did a lot of cool things for the time.

This brings up an interesting question: to what extent should a game's innovation count when rating it?

Let's say there are games g1 and its sequel g2. g1 introduces a setting, new game-play mechanics, and establishes the look & feel of the series, but it is not properly balanced, hard to mod, its interface is somewhat unwieldy, and the graphics could use some work. g2 reuses g1's engine, so the devs are able to improve all the areas where g1 was lacking, but they do not introduce any significant innovation to the genre or the series. I'm curious to which game would people award the higher score (though I have a good guess).

 

[Drew]

I'd likely say that g1 would be more memorable, while g2 is better.

Kind of a biased proposition, though.

 

[TheGreatOne]

Thanks for telling us what the codex is really about, guy who joined last week.

I joined here so I could complain about the results. I was already planning to do so the first time around but couldn't be arsed to register back then. This one was the straw that broke the camel's back, like finding a roach or rat droppings from your McNugget two times in a row in two different cities.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

Words to live by.

 

[SCO]

ignored TheGreatOne as a tryhard troll with a tryhard name.

 

[TripJack]

The number of polished and well-designed RPGs that exist is very, very small.

yea bro dragon age is very well designed, all those well designed corridors filled with all those well designed characters acting out all that well designed biowarian plot

No one would remember about DA:O if it wasnt because bioware made it.

It was the only non-indie-trash tactical rpg to come out in like an 8 year period

dragon age is tactical? cool story bro pls tell me more

 

[Grunker]

dragon age is tactical?

It is, at least relatively. Its systems are way more polished than most RPGs on the list.

Right now I'm trying to decide whether you're one of the "Fallout is tacticul lol"-guys or one of the "no rpgs r tacticul lol"-guys. I need info, so tell me more.

 

[VioletShadow]

Thanks for telling us what the codex is really about, guy who joined last week.

I joined here so I could complain about the results. I was already planning to do so the first time around but couldn't be arsed to register back then. This one was the straw that broke the camel's back, like finding a roach or rat droppings from your McNugget two times in a row in two different cities.

I foresee your complaints having great impact 'round here.

 

[Declinator]

This brings up an interesting question: to what extent should a game's innovation count when rating it?

Let's say there are games g1 and its sequel g2. g1 introduces a setting, new game-play mechanics, and establishes the look & feel of the series, but it is not properly balanced, hard to mod, its interface is somewhat unwieldy, and the graphics could use some work. g2 reuses g1's engine, so the devs are able to improve all the areas where g1 was lacking, but they do not introduce any significant innovation to the genre or the series. I'm curious to which game would people award the higher score (though I have a good guess).

If you are rating simply based on how good a game is then innovation should not count at all. On the other hand if you are rating greatness the story is different. For example Battleship Potemkin is a great movie but also a bad movie.

I do want to adjust my statement. The only way I can see Wasteland being better than DA:O is if you compare it to what came before it. Wasteland did a lot of cool things for the time.

DA:O has writing so bad that it is not simply bland or mediocre but actively negative similar to most Bioware games. While I have not played much of Wasteland, I would say that it is likely superior in this regard simply because of the fact that the party members are soulless automatons and this guarantees that there is no "Alistair" constantly there.

So in that regard at the very least Wasteland is better.

 

[Lhynn]

Really? i remember 3 spots in the game i liked, the entire beginning including the fight in the tower, the whole deal with the possessed kid, the deep roads dwarven last stand. Everything else kinda blurs together.
I probably would have forgotten about it had the guys that made Two Worlds made it.

List me all the party based tactical RPGs Reality Pump has made.

I'll wait.

I probably have played a couple of them but i simply dont remember...

lets see the answer:
And none. (unless 4 hunters counts, information about that title seems elusive).
Which further proves my point.

Not that hard to grasp tuluse, biowares popularity (negative as it may be) had a positive impact on the votes it got, which is all i was saying when someone implied otherwise.

 

[TheGreatOne]

ignored TheGreatOne as a tryhard troll

What is this, RPGwatch? I know, I'll loudly proclaim I'm ignoring some one because they have the nerve to go against the consensus and say critical things instead of joining the circlejerk, that way I'll have the last laugh. I could just ignore the said person, but if I make a big scene out of it and act like an attention whore, maybe do some trash talking with other fellow members who also have publicly announced that they've joined the ignore club, that way I can really show who's the boss to that meanie as he can't get a word in edgeways through our Level 5 LALALAICANTHEARYOU shield. After the threat is dealt with, we can go back to patting ourselves on back and telling how much more rational and superior we are compared to the people of those other forums. The ones where they get all emotional and ban enlightened strangers who have the gall to come in, rain on their parade and burst their bubbles.

Stop acting like such irrational, emotional plebs. If I state that codex isn't as oldschool as it claims to be/is commonly believed to be, that does not entail the implication that I'm more oldschool/HC than codexers. Whether my favorite RPG is Dragon Age 2 or Wizardry 7, I could still make the same observation and reach the same conclusion. Whether I personally prefer golden, silver or xbox age RPGs is irrelevant.

And no, the gerrymandered list wont soothe my rage as it has Mass Effect in it and it's not the one being spread around the internet.

with a tryhard name.

Tell that to Dwayne Johnson you insipid cunt. And no, I'm not calling you a cunt because you labeled me as a "tryhard", but rather because besides Roguey, you're the worst one of this forum.

 

[dryan]

Now it's personal!

 

[eric__s]

go against the consensus and say critical things instead of joining the circlejerk

attention whore

threat is dealt with

rational and superior

enlightened strangers

irrational, emotional plebs

entail the implication

soothe my rage

Stealing these for Barkley 2 save pump rants.

 

[Lhynn]

go against the consensus and say critical things instead of joining the circlejerk

attention whore

threat is dealt with

rational and superior

enlightened strangers

irrational, emotional plebs

entail the implication

soothe my rage

Stealing these for Barkley 2 save pump rants.

Looking forward to playing it cboy.

 

[eric__s]

go against the consensus and say critical things instead of joining the circlejerk

attention whore

threat is dealt with

rational and superior

enlightened strangers

irrational, emotional plebs

entail the implication

soothe my rage

Stealing these for Barkley 2 save pump rants.

Looking forward to playing it cboy.

It soothes my rage that such an enlightened stranger would entail the implication that they want to play my game.

 

[VioletShadow]

but rather because besides Roguey, you're the worst one of this forum.

You joined less than 2 weeks ago and so very familiar already with 'dex celebrities such as Roguey.

Alt is obvious boys.

 

[Abelian]

but rather because besides Roguey, you're the worst one of this forum.

You joined less than 2 weeks ago and so very familiar already with 'dex celebrities such as Roguey.

Alt is obvious boys.

I think many codexers join after lurking 1+ years, and he said that he wanted to join during last year's RPG survey:

I joined here so I could complain about the results. I was already planning to do so the first time around but couldn't be arsed to register back then.

 

[garren]

Yeah I lurked about 2 years before joining. Not that I have too many posts to begin with

 

[VioletShadow]

but rather because besides Roguey, you're the worst one of this forum.

You joined less than 2 weeks ago and so very familiar already with 'dex celebrities such as Roguey.

Alt is obvious boys.

I think many codexers join after lurking 1+ years, and he said that he wanted to join during last year's RPG survey:

I joined here so I could complain about the results. I was already planning to do so the first time around but couldn't be arsed to register back then.

Lies. I never thought the codex would be so easily fooled.

 

[Delterius]

I lurked this place for four years before joining. Every time I tried to create an account I found something else to be legitimately afraid of. Then GD access was cut from me and I just jumped in. Now I just hate half of the forum like every normal person.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

While it could be a troll, it could also be a butthurt Watch/NeoGAF/IGN poster who came here to gloat.

After the threat is dealt with, we can go back to patting ourselves on back and telling how much more rational and superior we are compared to the people of those other forums. The ones where they get all emotional and ban enlightened strangers who have the gall to come in, rain on their parade and burst their bubbles.

 

[felipepepe]

The Codex is very rational. We can ignore the fact that BG2 uses RTwP and see that it offers a richer RPG experience than almost any Turn-based game, thus it deserves to be on the top. Being old-school is not the same as being full of prejudice.

Besides, I already assumed that the current system is imperfect, and that the bayesian average list perhaps offers a more balanced result in terms of quality of the game. However, I choose to keep the original results because although Star Trail is a great game and might deserve to be #8, it only had 15 votes, while Baldur's Gate 2 at #9 had 116 votes. Obviously the Codex loves BG2 much more than ST, so it deserves to be on top.

 

[tuluse]

Bayesian average isn't a good tool to use on this kind of data because you don't know how many of the votes were "no vote" and how many were "0 points".

If we got everyone to give 0 points to games they felt don't belong on the list, then Bayesian would work since it adjusts for different sample sizes.