Incline RPG Codex's Top 50 cRPGs - Results and Reviews

[Crooked Bee]

felipepepe Is there any point to submitting more reviews? Can they still be edited in, or are we beyond the point of no return?

While I personally would like them, we already did all the coding and the Staff is now checking all the writing, so I guess that throwing new content over them now might be a bother...what you say Crooked Bee ?

To be honest I've barely just started editing all that stuff, so if MS wants to submit a review then sure, why not.

 

[SausageInYourFace]

The survey sampling method was not completely perfect as it was not anonymous, but if anything that stilted it towards being more in favor of classic stuff.

I wonder how significantly it would really change if the votes were anonymous. One guess is that DA:O would probably end up higher on the list.

 

[MicoSelva]

To be honest I've barely just started editing all that stuff, so if MS wants to submit a review then sure, why not.

In case it was missed:

Mass Effect:

Spoiler

The first Mass Effect is probably the least popular game of the trilogy. Perhaps coincidentally, it also has the most RPG systems of all three, including an extensive, if cumbersome to use, item system and character progression that goes beyond mere customization. The game manages to overcome its many flaws, like copy-pasted locations, long loading times, disappointing planetary exploration or the fact that some alien races are exclusively male while other are exclusively female (which was never really fixed in the series), and keep the player engaged on many levels.
Mass Effect introduces us to an interesting world, or rather galaxy, populated by interesting characters, some of which join the now-iconic Commander Shepard in his or her fight against rogue S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Saren, creating one of the best-known ensemble cast in recent memory and starting Bioware's most popular franchise so far.

 

[evdk]

The survey sampling method was not completely perfect as it was not anonymous, but if anything that stilted it towards being more in favor of classic stuff.

I wonder how significantly it would really change if the votes were anonymous. One guess is that DA:O would probably end up higher on the list.

Doubtful. Grunker proves easily that the stigma is gone

 

[Grunker]

The survey sampling method was not completely perfect as it was not anonymous, but if anything that stilted it towards being more in favor of classic stuff.

I wonder how significantly it would really change if the votes were anonymous. One guess is that DA:O would probably end up higher on the list.

Doubtful. Grunker proves easily that the stigma is gone

If the stigma is gone, I'm not the proof. I was an outspoken supporter of DA:O from Day 1 when I got here (in fact, DA:O was my reason for registering). Back then, I was one out of a very, very small number of outspoken fans. When the game came out, VD joined us, but that was about it.

If the tables have turned, they have done so with this poll. DA:O was fairly marginalized in the last one AFAIR.

 

[tuluse]

If the stigma is gone, I'm not the proof. I was an outspoken supporter of DA:O from Day 1 when I got here (in fact, DA:O was my reason for registering). Back then, I was one out of a very, very small number of outspoken fans. When the game came out, VD joined us, but that was about it.

If the tables have turned, they have done so with this poll. DA:O was fairly marginalized in the last one AFAIR.

I didn't want to give any points to mediocre RPGs when all votes were equal. Now that I can say DA:O is 1/4 as good as Fallout, I can throw it a point.

 

[Lhynn]

The survey sampling method was not completely perfect as it was not anonymous, but if anything that stilted it towards being more in favor of classic stuff.

I wonder how significantly it would really change if the votes were anonymous. One guess is that DA:O would probably end up higher on the list.

Or lower, it really has nothing special, a few interesting bits here and there or some p. well executed stuff but mostly generic, banal, boring, shit. I think what gives it a spot on the list is the fact that its from bioware.
Its not a bad game by any means, but i have no idea how it could make anyones top 5 if they have played a decent amount of rpgs.

 

[TheGreatOne]

Because the codex has to an obligation to take outsiders in consideration when compiling it's best of all time lists.

Do we?

Read the sentence that I was quoting again. It was defending this list because "it's more accessible to average joes and outsiders this way, as they would completely ignore it if it was full of oldschool/HC games and nothing else". He didn't claim so, but used outsiders feelings in an argument defending a list that places Dragon Age above Ultima IV/V/VII&Pool of Radiance and Morrowind&New Vegas above Wizardry VII(I)

Like it or not it is a representative sample of the people who are on the codex.

If a runner has been claiming for the past 8 years that he is the greatest runner in the world, then why act surprised when people are angry at him for getting a silver medal in the olympics? You got to live up to your prestigious name and reputation, or add a disclaimer to that banner (>doesn't scale to your level >the rumors of our old school elitism are greatly exaggerated). Either that, or ban every one whose avatar isn't from Celtic Tales.

 

[Zetor]

If the stigma is gone, I'm not the proof. I was an outspoken supporter of DA:O from Day 1 when I got here (in fact, DA:O was my reason for registering). Back then, I was one out of a very, very small number of outspoken fans. When the game came out, VD joined us, but that was about it.

If the tables have turned, they have done so with this poll. DA:O was fairly marginalized in the last one AFAIR.

I didn't want to give any points to mediocre RPGs when all votes were equal. Now that I can say DA:O is 1/4 as good as Fallout, I can throw it a point.

Mostly this, though I probably wouldn't put DA:O in my top 30, either. It's not a bad game, but there were so many better games!

 

[tuluse]

I don't think the codex has ever hid the fact that it's filled with hopeless Black Isle fans.

 

[SausageInYourFace]

Or lower, (..) . I think what gives it a spot on the list is the fact that its from bioware.

I am not sure I understand you correctly. Are you saying people voted for it because its from Bioware and if the vote would have been anonymous, less people would have voted for it?
Because if thats what you are saying then that would not make any sense to me. People here tend to bash BW without end and my reason to guess DA:O would be higher on the list is that many people probably didn't vote for it because it would have hurt their reputation or whatever.

 

[Grunker]

It's not a bad game, but there were so many better games!

My argument for putting it in my list is that this is pretty much very inaccurate. The number of polished and well-designed RPGs that exist is very, very small.

 

[Lhynn]

Or lower, (..) . I think what gives it a spot on the list is the fact that its from bioware.

I am not sure I understand you correctly. Are you saying people voted for it because its from Bioware and if the vote would have been anonymous, less people would have voted for it?
Because if thats what you are saying then that would not make any sense to me. People here tend to bash BW without end and my reason to guess DA:O would be higher on the list is that many people probably didn't vote for it because it would have hurt their reputation or whatever.

Nobody gives a shit about reputation here, this site could be called "name your guilty pleasure".
It had 24 votes with an average of 1.6, that tells me to a lot of people it was the worse of the best, which kinda goes along with codex consensus (if there is any).
And im saying the reason DA:O got voted despite being banal and forgettable RPG is because we dont forget about BW.

 

[Zetor]

It's not a bad game, but there were so many better games!

My argument for putting it in my list is that this is pretty much very inaccurate. The number of polished and well-designed RPGs that exist is very, very small.

Opinions are srs bsns. I'd put the following games before DA:O, just off the top of my head:
- Fallout 1/2/NV
- PS:T
- BG1-2
- Deus Ex, DX:HR, System Shock 2
- JA2
- Might&Magic 3-4-5
- Wizardry 6-7-8
- both Freedom Force games
- every single Gold Box game except for maybe DQK (this is ~10 games by itself)
- Ultima 6-7-SI
- Ultima Underworld 1-2
- Dark Sun 1-2
- Wasteland

and probably a few more I'm forgetting. I guess I could complain that (f'rex) Freedom Force didn't even make the top 50... but I don't really mind, nor care.

 

[SausageInYourFace]

Nobody gives a shit about reputation here

Ha!

And im saying the reason DA:O got voted despite being banal and forgettable RPG is because we dont forget about BW.

What? It seems to be one of the most despised companies here.

 

[Lhynn]

What? It seems to be one of the most despised companies here.

Yes.

 

[tuluse]

Opinions are srs bsns. I'd put the following games before DA:O, just off the top of my head:
- Fallout 1/2/NV
- PS:T
- BG1-2
- Deus Ex, DX:HR, System Shock 2
- JA2
- Might&Magic 3-4-5
- Wizardry 6-7-8
- both Freedom Force games
- every single Gold Box game except for maybe DQK (this is ~10 games by itself)
- Ultima 6-7-SI
- Ultima Underworld 1-2
- Dark Sun 1-2
- Wasteland

and probably a few more I'm forgetting. I guess I could complain that (f'rex) Freedom Force didn't even make the top 50... but I don't really mind, nor care.

I've only played about an hour of Wasteland myself, but I did watch a great video LP of it. I don't see how it could really be considered better than DA:O.

 

[felipepepe]

BioWare is like an ex-girlfriend. You had awesome days together, but she traded you for an asshole and keeps doing retarded stuff with her life.

You now look at it with a mix of nostalgia from the old days, anger from her betrayal and pity for the sad state she's currently in.

 

[SausageInYourFace]

I see that, but theorizing that people voted for DA:O just because they secretly still have some love for their ex-girlfriend seems really far-fetched.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

[Read the sentence that I was quoting again. It was defending this list because "it's more accessible to average joes and outsiders this way, as they would completely ignore it if it was full of oldschool/HC games and nothing else". He didn't claim so, but used outsiders feelings in an argument defending a list that places Dragon Age above Ultima IV/V/VII&Pool of Radiance and Morrowind&New Vegas above Wizardry VII(I).

Your point was that since we consider ourselves "oldschool", we have the responsibility to publish a List of Incline™ so we don't perpetuate "unhealthy ideals of what a RPG should be" to outsiders. felipepepe's argument was that an artificial list full of grognard RPGs would just look inaccessible to the average gamer anyway, and that if the intent is to convince people to look for something more in their RPGs, then a list that has a good mix of old and new titles (incidentally, the one we came up with naturally) is more likely to have an effect than a list that can be summed up as "EVERYTHING YOU LIKE IS SHIT".

Like it or not it is a representative sample of the people who are on the codex.

If a runner has been claiming for the past 8 years that he is the greatest runner in the world, then why act surprised when people are angry at him for getting a silver medal in the olympics? You got to live up to your prestigious name and reputation, or add a disclaimer to that banner (>doesn't scale to your level >the rumors of our old school elitism are greatly exaggerated). Either that, or ban every one whose avatar isn't from Celtic Tales.

Thanks for telling us what the codex is really about, guy who joined last week.

 

[Lhynn]

I see that, but theorizing that people voted for DA:O just because they secretly still have some love for their ex-girlfriend seems really far-fetched.

No one would remember about DA:O if it wasnt because bioware made it.

 

[Infinitron]

What a pointless statement. DA:O is a distinctly Bioware-style RPG - no other company COULD have made it.

I thought DA:O was a solid RPG, though like most AAA titles it became kind of rote in the late game.

It is the first, and possibly the last AAA traditional CRPG.

 

[tuluse]

No one would remember about DA:O if it wasnt because bioware made it.

It was the only non-indie-trash tactical rpg to come out in like an 8 year period. I'm pretty sure it would be remembered.

 

[Lhynn]

No one would remember about DA:O if it wasnt because bioware made it.

It was the only non-indie-trash tactical rpg to come out in like an 8 year period. I'm pretty sure it would be remembered.

Really? i remember 3 spots in the game i liked, the entire beginning including the fight in the tower, the whole deal with the possessed kid, the deep roads dwarven last stand. Everything else kinda blurs together.
I probably would have forgotten about it had the guys that made Two Worlds made it.

 

[Abelian]

Kingdoms of Amalur was the first (and only) RPG developed by Big Huge Games/38 Studios and it will be remembered (but for entirely different reasons).