People News Ray Muzyka and Greg Zeschuk Leave Bioware (and Gaming Industry)

[Aeschylus]

The Baldur's Gate series is no holy cow (whatever that means, exactly), but they are fun games. Bummer that you are too anhedonic to enjoy them. And I say the Infinity Engine was a great achievement mainly because of the many excellent games it allowed to be produced very rapidly, and the (mostly) accurate and usable translation of D&D mechanics to the computer. I know it's cool and edgy to bash Bioware around here, but they did a lot of good things in their history.

 

[L'ennui]

Good for them!

 

[LeStryfe79]

The Baldur's Gate series is no holy cow (whatever that means, exactly), but they are fun games. Bummer that you are too anhedonic to enjoy them. And I say the Infinity Engine was a great achievement mainly because of the many excellent games it allowed to be produced very rapidly, and the (mostly) accurate and usable translation of D&D mechanics to the computer. I know it's cool and edgy to bash Bioware around here, but they did a lot of good things in their history.

I dunno. Every Bioware game I ever played had poor combat, weeaboo story, and false C&C. WTF made them any good? I think Bioware got big because they made their players feel important with low difficulty and world saving plots. After all, people like their entitlements nowadays, and Bioware was a huge enabler. I'm glad they're gone. I don't care if my opinion on this is brofisted or shat upon. I think their history is a stain on CRPG's . Good luck to those two fucks. Have a nice life and whatnot.

 

[Black]

The Baldur's Gate series is no holy cow (whatever that means, exactly), but they are fun games. Bummer that you are too anhedonic to enjoy them. And I say the Infinity Engine was a great achievement mainly because of the many excellent games it allowed to be produced very rapidly, and the (mostly) accurate and usable translation of D&D mechanics to the computer. I know it's cool and edgy to bash Bioware around here, but they did a lot of good things in their history.

BGs are indeed holy cows- things many people hold dear for no reason other than them being holy cows. They're fun games? Well whooptie fucking doo, guess what else was "fun"? Oblivion! Bummer that many people here are too anhedonic to enjoy that game too, no?
And to bring some words of wisdom from another thread- (some) IE games were good despite the engine, not because of it. Torment could've been done on any engine that is capable of text messages and pictures, maybe combat would be better thanks to it. It's amazing how IE was great for "translating" D&D mechanics and yet it only ended up using dumbed down AD&D. And let's not forget that games like KOTORs and Neverwinter Nights also had "translated D&D mechanics".
IE was an unoptimized piece of crap that had many, many flaws when it comes to what it was designed for- party based combat. Walking upstairs in BGs is pathetic because in games where supposedly positioning is important, pathfinding fucking sucks. Not to mention the horrible invention that was rtwp, which has none of the pros of real-time and turn-based but cons of both. And that crap is still plaguing games to this day and will even plague Eternity.

I have a tip for you: next time you decide to defend these holy cows that is IE and BGs, I recommend you find some actual reasons why they're good. Not stupid shit like "WELL I HAD FUN SO THAR" or "U JUST HATE EVERYTHING" because that's what even bethesdafags can do. So step up or get out.

 

[Suchy]

So EA finally assuming direct control?

 

[Jaesun]

It's amazing how IE was great for "translating" D&D mechanics and yet it only ended up using dumbed down AD&D.

How specifically did it dumb down the AD&D mechanics?

 

[Volourn]

*shrug*

They ahve tons of money.

What did they do? They create BIO the best RPG developer ever. BIO still exists . It's been 5 years since EA acquired them. 8shrug*

I'll do what i normally do - but BIo games I want to and don't buy game I don't want to. Duh.

Time goes on. BIo while last longer under EA than Troikia did its entire existence. L0L

 

[Mastermind]

The Baldur's Gate series is no holy cow (whatever that means, exactly), but they are fun games. Bummer that you are too anhedonic to enjoy them. And I say the Infinity Engine was a great achievement mainly because of the many excellent games it allowed to be produced very rapidly, and the (mostly) accurate and usable translation of D&D mechanics to the computer. I know it's cool and edgy to bash Bioware around here, but they did a lot of good things in their history.

BGs are indeed holy cows- things many people hold dear for no reason other than them being holy cows. They're fun games? Well whooptie fucking doo, guess what else was "fun"? Oblivion!

I'm the only person here who thought Oblivion was fun. BG2 (and 1, though I didn't play 1 much) had a great story, great atmosphere, and a decent character system that helped enable something virtually non-existent in most other rpgs: excellent encounter design.

Not to mention the horrible invention that was rtwp, which has none of the pros of real-time and turn-based but cons of both.

I can only surmise the tards who keep repeating this lie haven't thought it through at all. The main (and only objective) pro of TB is that it gives you time to think, plan, and execute tactics at your leisure. RTwP allows that too. Beyond that, the only reason to prefer one over the other is flavor. RT has more pros, depending on the context, but the main use it has in games like this is allowing you to quickly get through combat encounters that aren't much of a challenge but still serve a purpose (immershun, character progression). It's also less of a pain to program.

 

[Menckenstein]

That's funny, they spelled forced to resign as "retired"

 

[Aeschylus]

Black
Fair enough, that was mostly just snark and you probably don't hate everything so I'll tell you what I like and don't like about them and we can be done with this fairly pointless back-and-forth and get back to the schadenfreude. I'm not sure exactly what you consider a 'weeabo story' -- Japanese storytelling is just as diverse as western, and both are riddled with their own cliches -- but while BG's stories were not any sort of brilliant literary masterpieces, they were a hell of a lot better then most game stories. I'm not sure exactly which games you've played which are so amazing and rival the works of Proust and Dostoevsky, but in my experience most are not exactly high art. I did enjoy Irenicus as a villain a lot, hammy as he was.

Comparing IE games to Bethesda games is a completely false comparison and is pretty much just you baiting me with reductio ad aburdem, so I will ignore that. Pathfinding sucks? Yeah, that's pretty much true. That was probably the weakest part of the engine, though it mostly only came up if you tried to let the AI navigate across the entire map. The actual combat encounters in BG were extremely well designed, and are among the better thought-out fights in any RPG, ever. Boo fucking hoo, it's hard to move your characters up stairs. Guess what, it would be a pain in the ass to move six people up a small staircase during a fight in real life too. And 'dumbed down D&D mechanics'? They really weren't all that simplified systems wise -- point out a direct example if you will in the games that actually used 2E D&D mechanics (i.e. not Planescape)? Obviously you can't make everything work in a computer game as some things in any PnP roleplaying game are reliant on player/DM descriptions and imagination, but for the parts that are translatable I can't think of anything that was 'dumbed down'. And the Icewind Dale games proved that an IE game could be basically carried by the combat and system mechanics and still be pretty fun.

I don't really have any problem with the RTwP system, though it's not perfect. Turn-based combat can be excellent, but its existence doesn't preclude another system from working or being enjoyable. I will say though that it introduced some weaknesses into combat design, particularly one that Tim Cain pointed out earlier in that interview -- the D&D system *was* designed for turn based combat, so in that way it introduced problems by directly translating spells and abilities that weren't really designed for use in a non-TB system. But yeah, saying it 'fucking sucks' I can only look at as deliberate hyperbole. It had its flaws, but worked fine.

KOTOR and Neverwinter Nights have absolutely nothing to do with the IE or BG, so I'm not really sure why you brought them up... Their translation of D&D mechanics was: A) From 3E, which was a much simpler and easier ruleset to implement, and B) Again, entirely separate from IE's.

In terms of actual gameplay in the Baldur's Gate games, aside from the combat encounter design, I enjoyed: the exploration that was possible in both the games (particularly BG1); the fact that BG2 created possibly the only really satisfying complete city in an RPG that I can recall (Gothic 2 also did a great job there); the varied strongholds available to each class in 2; some of the companions (Edwin and Viconia spring to mind). I didn't love: the epic-level mechanics; their confusing need for inappropriate filler combat in illogical places; the opening sequences in both games.

Anyway, you make some valid points about potential weaknesses in the RTwP system, but mostly it's just down to a matter of opinion. I know it's awesome and hardcore or whatever to hate everything and troll, but you don't need to try so hard to denigrate anyone who enjoyed the games. Especially when, as far as I can tell from you post, your argument is mainly vitriol and cursing.

 

[Excidium]

The Baldur's Gate series is no holy cow (whatever that means, exactly), but they are fun games. Bummer that you are too anhedonic to enjoy them. And I say the Infinity Engine was a great achievement mainly because of the many excellent games it allowed to be produced very rapidly, and the (mostly) accurate and usable translation of D&D mechanics to the computer. I know it's cool and edgy to bash Bioware around here, but they did a lot of good things in their history.

BGs are indeed holy cows- things many people hold dear for no reason other than them being holy cows. They're fun games? Well whooptie fucking doo, guess what else was "fun"? Oblivion!

I'm the only person here who thought Oblivion was fun. BG2 (and 1, though I didn't play 1 much) had a great story, great atmosphere, and a decent character system that helped enable something virtually non-existent in most other rpgs: excellent encounter design.

Almost every creature in the game fights by manner of bumrushing you. I guess suddenly bumping into a mage with trillion buffs and triggered spells is excellent encounter design for some people.

 

[Serious_Business]

roofles

9 years Volourn

9 fucking years

It's alright you can cry, I'm here for you

 

[suejak]

The Baldur's Gate series is no holy cow (whatever that means, exactly), but they are fun games. Bummer that you are too anhedonic to enjoy them. And I say the Infinity Engine was a great achievement mainly because of the many excellent games it allowed to be produced very rapidly, and the (mostly) accurate and usable translation of D&D mechanics to the computer. I know it's cool and edgy to bash Bioware around here, but they did a lot of good things in their history.

BGs are indeed holy cows- things many people hold dear for no reason other than them being holy cows. They're fun games? Well whooptie fucking doo, guess what else was "fun"? Oblivion!

I'm the only person here who thought Oblivion was fun. BG2 (and 1, though I didn't play 1 much) had a great story, great atmosphere, and a decent character system that helped enable something virtually non-existent in most other rpgs: excellent encounter design.

Almost every creature in the game fights by manner of bumrushing you. I guess suddenly bumping into a mage with trillion buffs and triggered spells is excellent encounter design for some people.

I don't get what you're trying to say. The game drops you into a scenario and you're supposed to figure out how to beat it given the resources available to you. This means pausing, thinking, issuing your orders, then unpausing to see what happens.

 

[Excidium]

I'm the one that doesn't get what you are trying to say. Why are you describing RTwP combat to me?

 

[deuxhero]

Another formerly great company (yes, Bioware was great -- they made the fucking Infinity Engine, that alone qualifies) dying the long death under EA's thumb. It'll probably be nice for the Dr.s not to have to spout that rancid EA marketing bullshit anymore.

What's so great about IE?

The pathfinding of course!

 

[suejak]

I'm the one that doesn't get what you are trying to say. Why are you describing RTwP combat to me?

I was explaining how "bumping into a mage with trillion buffs and triggered spells is excellent encounter design." I dunno, can you name a better way to do it?

 

[sea]

Ray is moving on to social entrepreneurship in the hope "of helping the world to be a better place"

Well he's already off to a good start by leaving EA.

 

[J1M]

Not to mention the horrible invention that was rtwp, which has none of the pros of real-time and turn-based but cons of both.

I can only surmise the tards who keep repeating this lie haven't thought it through at all. The main (and only objective) pro of TB is that it gives you time to think, plan, and execute tactics at your leisure. RTwP allows that too. Beyond that, the only reason to prefer one over the other is flavor. RT has more pros, depending on the context, but the main use it has in games like this is allowing you to quickly get through combat encounters that aren't much of a challenge but still serve a purpose (immershun, character progression). It's also less of a pain to program.

This is the kind of statement that gets you a dumbfuck tag, lol.

 

[Grunker]

It's amazing how IE was great for "translating" D&D mechanics and yet it only ended up using dumbed down AD&D.

How specifically did it dumb down the AD&D mechanics?

By adding more complexity and more choices within the character system, duh.

Black is just raging blindly, as usual.

 

[Excidium]

I was explaining how "bumping into a mage with trillion buffs and triggered spells is excellent encounter design." I dunno, can you name a better way to do it?

Probably something that involves actual tactics, any idiot can spawn a wizard with loaded spells in a closed room between corridors and call that an encounter.

Encounter design was probably the worst part of IE games, I'm criticizing the wizard battles here but they were actually the highlight due to the variety of magic spells you had to deal with.

 

[suejak]

I was explaining how "bumping into a mage with trillion buffs and triggered spells is excellent encounter design." I dunno, can you name a better way to do it?

Probably something that involves actual tactics, any idiot can spawn a wizard with loaded spells in a closed room between corridors and call that an encounter.

Encounter design was probably the worst part of IE games, I'm criticizing the wizard battles here but they were actually the highlight due to the variety of magic spells you had to deal with.

I don't remember specifics, but there's always a lot to consider in those scenarios. Generally there were not simply "wizards" to fight, and even then, all the wizards were of different sorts and had different spells. This gave each fight a unique feel, as you had to tailor your strategy around the specific types of enemies you had come across. They weren't simply generic Red Wizards or something; you were fighting Cedric and Aeron or whatever, and Cedric packs a mean coupla charm spells.

You have to decide how much of a threat each of your various targets is, and how best to control the fight. This might mean using your one silence spell on just one of three wizards -- which one is best? Etc. Almost every fight of the BG game was really interesting and exciting because each was unique and tactically challenging.

You can roll your eyes and yawn at the classics all you want, but those games were fucking good. No amount of iconoclastic revisionism is going to change that.

 

[Jaesun]

I also wonder if they had to sign a Non-Compete with EA in that they cannot work on games for (X) amount of years.

 

[tuluse]

I also wonder if they had to sign a Non-Compete with EA in that they cannot work on games for (X) amount of years.

I would bet all the money I have that they did.

 

[Mastermind]

Almost every creature in the game fights by manner of bumrushing you. I guess suddenly bumping into a mage with trillion buffs and triggered spells is excellent encounter design for some people.

Melee creatures bumrush you because... they're melee?

Not to mention the horrible invention that was rtwp, which has none of the pros of real-time and turn-based but cons of both.

I can only surmise the tards who keep repeating this lie haven't thought it through at all. The main (and only objective) pro of TB is that it gives you time to think, plan, and execute tactics at your leisure. RTwP allows that too. Beyond that, the only reason to prefer one over the other is flavor. RT has more pros, depending on the context, but the main use it has in games like this is allowing you to quickly get through combat encounters that aren't much of a challenge but still serve a purpose (immershun, character progression). It's also less of a pain to program.

This is the kind of statement that gets you a dumbfuck tag, lol.

No, it's the kind of statement that never gets a serious reply because most of you can't think past shitty one liners.

Butthurt oldfags: Nobody ever explains their position.
Mastermind: *explains position*
Butthurt oldfags: dumfuc lole

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

Ray & Greg were really cool dudes in those earlier days of Bioware's existence. But once they sold out to the devil, thei voice and image of benelovent gamer CEOs was pushed back and they became non-existent within the corporate monstrosity. Which really doesn't surprise me for Ray to consult future entrepreneurs to NOT become like John Riccitello.