Please help me understand something about Neverwinter Nights

[sea]

The fact is even early on there is trash combat: The kobolds and the Gnolls. The only GOOD encounter you missed in the review is the Cave with the Mummy, which has Bugbears. The game does NOT repeat a better non boss encounter until you reach the Formian stronghold.

Also, I have no idea which characters you liked. All of them are shallow and boring. The Dwarf is pure bile. The Orc is one trick pony who can't even keep up with that. Deekin is Jar jar.

I also would not call it fast pased. Because of the ridiculousness of the dungeons it stalls a lot.

Okay, I admit, the kobold and gnoll caves are a bit trashy. However they get bonus points for fun scenarios (the obvious trap with big red arrows pointing you towards a chest, for instance), and they are still much shorter than anything in the original campaign. As you get better items earlier on and are leveled faster, too, combat goes by more quickly.

The half-orc was entertaining for me. One trick pony, yes, but that doesn't mean he wasn't well-written and entertaining. Same goes for Deekin. Their jokes got some laughs out of me, they were used well but not over-used, and they had a lot of good customization options that gave control over how they leveled and used equipment and spells, while still retaining the sense that they are hirelings rather than player characters.

I'm not saying that SoU was an awesome and amazing experience or anything, even it's better stuff is still just "good." However, as it goes for the less serious angle, I am liable to judge it by different standards than any number of more serious, "deep and mature" RPGs out there. I am capable of liking stuff that's "simple fun" and as far as that goes, the first half of SoU does a good job.

David Gaider said he wrote most of SoU's first chapter in this Codex interview: http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=148

He also said the expansion was Bioware's attempt at ~experimenting~ with multiple solutions and they decided all the scripting involved was more trouble than it was worth. http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/role-playing-in-dragon-age.18984/

As far as individual quests, there will generally be options as to how to complete them but there's never going to be every option. I remember in the beginning of Hordes there was an encounter with some kobolds holed up in a bar that had something like six different methods of completion -- and while it was an interesting experiment, that one tiny encounter required so much work it was almost mind-boggling and almost got cut because the complexity introduced too many bugs. So the idea, I think, is to strike a line somewhere in the middle.
...
Ah, yes, it was in SoU. I always mix those up. And there were only two consequences, if I remember right -- either you saved the kobolds or you didn't. There were just many ways of saving them or not saving them, probably more then were really necessary. In terms of the roleplaying it offered, it was very much in the neat-but-over-the-top category.

Interesting, thanks. Pretty lame that their conclusion is "scripting complex plots is teh ahrd" though. His suggestion on "many ways to get the same couple of outcomes" is very good, but they obviously didn't follow through with this past the beginning. It sounds like they learned something though, and to be fair BioWare's C&C got a lot better after Neverwinter Nights even if the quality of the writing itself didn't necessarily.

 

[Captain Shrek]

Okay, I admit, the kobold and gnoll caves are a bit trashy. However they get bonus points for fun scenarios (the obvious trap with big red arrows pointing you towards a chest, for instance), and they are still much shorter than anything in the original campaign. As you get better items earlier on and are leveled faster, too, combat goes by more quickly.

The half-orc was entertaining for me. One trick pony, yes, but that doesn't mean he wasn't well-written and entertaining. Same goes for Deekin. Their jokes got some laughs out of me, they were used well but not over-used, and they had a lot of good customization options that gave control over how they leveled and used equipment and spells, while still retaining the sense that they are hirelings rather than player characters.

I'm not saying that SoU was an awesome and amazing experience or anything, even it's better stuff is still just "good." However, as it goes for the less serious angle, I am liable to judge it by different standards than any number of more serious, "deep and mature" RPGs out there. I am capable of liking stuff that's "simple fun" and as far as that goes, the first half of SoU does a good job.

You are being over charitable towards the campaign. The game does have good points but it is hardly:

Nice writing, entertaining companions, good lore. Lots of great conversations that are lengthy and have a lot of different dialogue paths to explore. Companion dialogues don't matter that much in the grand scheme but each of them has a nice personality and backstory. There is a bit of wit and tongue-in-cheek handling of the material, which works well.

Neither is it:

Fast-paced. After one-to-many "epic" quests it's nice to see an RPG that moves along at a good pace. I think it took me about 15 hours to finish and it was just about the right length. Stays away from typical high fantasy stuff to show more atypical settings, like deserts, magic cities, etc. There is a bit of that stuff in the first chapter but even that is handled well and mostly stays away from the cliches.

In fact it is a text book epic quest too. Come on! Ancient civilizations, Mythallars and floating cities? What else do you want?

Lots of little "set piece" moments which are fun and help break things up. I already mentioned the "ox stampede" earlier but there are plenty of those moments throughout the game.

Unfortunately exactly one of three set pieces:

1) Using the Trap in the crypt
2) Using the Stampede
3) Using the Animal Master's creatures.

There are secrets, and some of them are very rewarding and actually take some thought to figure out.

There are only two and one of them is the Main Quest.

 

[sea]

To be fair, I did just come off of the Neverwinter Nights original campaign, which is mostly 80 hours of mindless bloat. So I'm probably inclined to be charitable given the situation. :B

As for frequency of the cool stuff: duh, there isn't a ton. It's still ultimately a 10-15 hour expansion. The fact that that stuff is even there is appreciated, though.

 

[Volourn]

Fuck you, Roguey! You aren't supposed to help these lazy shitheads who spam bullshit with stupie helpful links! i much prefer battling the ignorant as I laugh at their asanineness.

Now, I have no chocie set to set back for a few months til the next ignoramous tries to pretend that FG is the reason that SOU is 'good' (lol).

Sea... are you happy being an ignorant moran who spams bullshit like you ar eknowledagble even when you know shit?

Why do people dare argue with me over NWN? I am the NWN Fukkin' Master! FUCK YEAH!!

 

[Infinitron]

 

[sea]

After playing through the intro and 1st Undermountain level:

1. It feels more typically BioWare to me in some respects - namely in how the way exposition and characters are handled, and the "generic" nature of the setting and plot. But that's also D&D, and to be fair the writing is still much more interesting and entertaining than the original campaign for me.
2. I am not eager to go delving into yet more dungeons, however, the variety on display here is far, far better. Lots of unique scenarios such as the hall of mirrors, sleeping kings, etc. It feels very much like an extension of the best parts of the Baldur's Gate games - a bit "kitchen sink" in approach, but if it makes for fun gameplay I don't mind.
3. More secret doors and stuff are fun. Talking swords also get you a bonus point.

Not bad at all so far, definitely reminds me a lot of the "original" BioWare stuff and this strikes me as one last shot at glory or something along those lines, before making the full leap to console games.

I'm going to go insane playing goddamn NWN games, though.

 

[Volourn]

"Lots of unique scenarios such as the hall of mirrors, sleeping kings, etc. It feels very much like an extension of the best parts of the Baldur's Gate games - a bit "kitchen sink" in approach, but if it makes for fun gameplay I don't mind."

More ignorance. This isn't 'original BUIO stuff' or 'unique' since these things are a part of actual pnp Undermounatin. WTF

PROTIP: Do actual research before spamming misinformed 'opinions'.

 

[sea]

Why are you putting "opinion" in quotes? Are you saying it's not my real opinion? Or that it's invalid? How is a strictly personal understanding of what's in the game (relating it to Baldur's Gate) not a valid opinion?

 

[Volourn]

Because opinions should be based on eality not make believe. To give BIo credit or blame for things they really have no part of is not a legit opinion. It's ignorant.

Just like your opinion that ch1 SOU couldn't be BIO because it didn't 'feel' l(lol whateveer that nonsense means) like BIO then youw ere promptly disproven b/c you posted from ignorance. I am here to stop the ignorance AT ALL COSTS.

In conclusion, I know what i speak of. You do not.

I udnerstand how NWN works. I know how the campaigns work. the mods work. The scipts work.

Just stick with the simple stuff like 'i like this' or 'i don't like this'. That way, there can't be no complaints.

 

[sea]

I made a mistake when discussing SoU and I admitted that.

Regarding this however, I never said they didn't take the ideas from the tabletop version. When I said the content was "unique" I was referring to interesting one-off scenarios which are varied and numerous. As for "original", I was referring to the older BioWare games and not saying the content was all their own ideas.

 

[Harg Harfardarssen]

I made a mistake when discussing SoU and I admitted that.

I don't know, I think you gave up too easily; the proof is less than airtight to me. I'm still pretty unclear on who did what for SoU (I'm assuming Floodgate did something at least). In the interview, Gaider just says he wrote "much of Chapter 1, including Deekin" as part of a litany of credits in response to the question:

"Since we have several developers here, please introduce yourself and give us an overview of your dialogue-related work: games, memorable characters you were responsible for, and anything else you feel is relevant."

Much is not the same as most and the question the statement was answering was focused on dialogue. Doesn't mean Bioware didn't do the other stuff, just that Gaider's statement addresses only a fairly modest portion of the game.

 

[Volourn]

You have encountered another IDIOT. Serious, get over it, you are wrong. BIO made SOU. The factsa re facts. What FG did on it has been covered so don't be retarted and try to spam more bullshit. It only embarasses you and FG for trying to give them credit for such a subpar campaign. Do you hate FG THAT much?

FFS

 

[~RAGING BONER~]

http://aurensociety.blogspot.com/


seems one of the best mod trilogies is soon to conclude...I might have to re-install NWN for this one.

 

[made]

Who cares who made what; SoU was just as lame and boring as the OC. HotU was better, if only because DEMONS.

 

[Gord]

Did anyone ever notice that at least some of the names from SoU are taken from medieval music group Mediaeval Baebes, namely the song "Undrentide", where they sing about some queen Heurodis?

Guess one of the people writing the story of SoU was a fan of them.

 

[Admiral jimbob]

http://aurensociety.blogspot.com/


seems one of the best mod trilogies is soon to conclude...I might have to re-install NWN for this one.

Thank Christ. I remember downloading Shadewood maybe three years ago and not playing it because I was thinking "yeah, it's been a while, the last part will probably be out soon"

 

[taxalot]

Goodness me, I still have NWN2 to go through ; and I refuse to play the expansions without having completed the OC.

 

[Infinitron]

After playing through the intro and 1st Undermountain level:

1. It feels more typically BioWare to me in some respects - namely in how the way exposition and characters are handled, and the "generic" nature of the setting and plot. But that's also D&D, and to be fair the writing is still much more interesting and entertaining than the original campaign for me.
2. I am not eager to go delving into yet more dungeons, however, the variety on display here is far, far better. Lots of unique scenarios such as the hall of mirrors, sleeping kings, etc. It feels very much like an extension of the best parts of the Baldur's Gate games - a bit "kitchen sink" in approach, but if it makes for fun gameplay I don't mind.
3. More secret doors and stuff are fun. Talking swords also get you a bonus point.

Not bad at all so far, definitely reminds me a lot of the "original" BioWare stuff and this strikes me as one last shot at glory or something along those lines, before making the full leap to console games.


I'm going to go insane playing goddamn NWN games, though.

So, did you ever finish playing this?

 

[Sceptic]

Goodness me, I still have NWN2 to go through ; and I refuse to play the expansions without having completed the OC.

Why do you people do this to yourselves?

 

[sea]

So, did you ever finish playing this?

Haven't had the time. Been playing a review copy of Sword of the Stars: The Pit in the meantime.

 

[Gord]

Goodness me, I still have NWN2 to go through ; and I refuse to play the expansions without having completed the OC.

Why do you people do this to yourselves?

Never got the hate for it, honestly. OC is your standard DnD-cRPG stuff. No masterpiece, but it has its moments.
I've certainly played much worse.

 

[taxalot]

I remember giving up the game because of the interface, not because of the OC.

 

[sea]

The original campaign simply has way too much filler in act 1 - boring endless grindy combat (enjoy bugbears and orcs). At the end of act 1 it gets good, however all the stuff in Neverwinter, Old Owl Well, etc. could have been cut down massively and the campaign would have been far better. Use those resources to fix the ending instead.

 

[Broseph]

I stopped playing NWN2 OC in Chapter Two because I simply wasn't getting any enjoyment from it at all. Too much trash combat, too many filler quests. I'm not a masochist so I saw no reason to keep going. I'm sure The Brazilian Slaughter agrees with me that the OC for both games was terrible. I have the Platinum Edition and I'm going to play MoTB and SoZ, eventually.

 

[Commissar Draco]

For all the filler like Orc caves and Old Owl Well (entire pointless chapter only to introduce one cardboard character) NWN2 OC had alt east moments I do remember like investigation and trial (shame for Biowerian finale), Amon Jerro sanctuary or Keep Management mini game. NWN1 OC is like one big black hole.