Please help me understand something about Neverwinter Nights

[racofer]

"nother wearying thing in NWN is the damage reduction on chests, some you need to PwrAtt crit or chisel away at with pissy elemental damage. And even if you did take Tomi, a little sleep-inducing bar popped up to show the unlocking progress. Its not that I have ADHD, its just that coming off the pacey and reactive BG1 made this sort of stuff hard to stomach."

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! Just take open locks and problem solved. WAAAAAAA! I cna't bash chests easily. BOO FUKKIN' HOO!

Take your lame azz overrated BG1 and its billions of xfartz and shvoe it up yer candy azz!

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! Just cast sleep. WAAAAAAA! Too many xfartz. BOO FUKKIN' HOO!



Meh, my fighter needed his skill points for Discipline and Heal.

 

[Whisper]

Where is link that sea liked GW2 "story"?

 

[Captain Shrek]

I would definitely not say that SoU or Hotu has good writing. What they have well done is:

SOU a low level adventure with a lot of good encounters, resolutions and options.

HoTU, a munchkin super high adventure with a lot of well done dungeons.

Also Intellect devourer fight is ONLY difficult if you have managed to seriously gimp yourself or if you are a rogue.

 

[hoverdog]

Finally I have an ally in my struggle to prove that the NWN expansions are overlooked gems. Write a review when you're done with it, please?

I played SoU for like half an hour a long time ago. However, after some advertisement on the codex (was it you or someone else, that I can't remember) I decided to overcome my deepest OC fears and tackle Hordes of the Underdark straight on.

I gave it a chance, I honestly did. But man was it a disappointment (a relative one, it was obviously better than the neverwinter campaign but not by much). A linear party dungeon romp on an engine that really isn't made for parties (even more so than the dreaded NWN2 one). Plot? LOL EVUL DRUWS.

Overlooked gems? Give me a fucking break. Maybe if HotU were a part of the OC (probably along with SoU if it's really not that bad), the game would be salvagable and not my biggest disappointment of all time. Not sure though.

 

[RK47]

Where is link that sea liked GW2 "story"?

Check under Site News - Gamebanshee GOTY : Bottom of Barrel Edition

 

[RK47]

Also Intellect devourer fight is ONLY difficult if ...

I kinda disagree on that - it was pretty hard for a pure fighter type - even a cleric would have issues if he failed a save vs spell / did not cast some sight spell to fuck the invisibility on the ass.
Like I said before, it needed a hard counter, and it involves immunity to stun/mind affecting (that he spams liberally) & somewhat good to-hit chance cause you have to outlast the motherfucker before your blue potions run out. Anyone who claimed they beat this boss without using Cure Wound potions is either lucky on the dice roll or spammed Stone of Recall at 25% HP instead. It was a badly designed encounter for a low level adventurer to fight.

As for SoU being a better game - hell yeah. I enjoyed the Ranger aspect in the forest. It's almost as if the game acknowledge the Animal Empathy for once.

 

[Volourn]

"I kinda disagree on that - it was pretty hard for a pure fighter type - even a cleric would have issues if he failed a save vs spell / did not cast some sight spell to fuck the invisibility on the ass.
Like I said before, it needed a hard counter, and it involves immunity to stun/mind affecting (that he spams liberally) & somewhat good to-hit chance cause you have to outlast the motherfucker before your blue potions run out. Anyone who claimed they beat this boss without using Cure Wound potions is either lucky on the dice roll or spammed Stone of Recall at 25% HP instead. It was a badly designed encounter for a low level adventurer to fight."

No.I believe you meant it wa sa badly designed encountered fora horribly played low level adventurer to fight.


"It's almost as if the game acknowledge the Animal Empathy for once"

OC beat it.

Why lie?


"Plot? LOL EVUL DRUWS."

You didn't play the game then. It's more like L0L EVIL DRUWS TRICKED BY EVIL DEMUN WHO MURDERS PC WHO LATER GETS REVENGE! ROOFLES!


FFS

 

[abnaxus]

Kinda annoying that you can choose to join that evil Drow supermodel but then you're railroaded into getting owned by the EVIL DEVIL anyway.

 

[Volourn]

don't be mad that he outsmarted youm until you outsmart him later. All is fair in war.

 

[Erebus]

I gave it a chance, I honestly did. But man was it a disappointment (a relative one, it was obviously better than the neverwinter campaign but not by much). A linear party dungeon romp on an engine that really isn't made for parties (even more so than the dreaded NWN2 one). Plot? LOL EVUL DRUWS.

The beginning may look rather average and unoriginal, but the game really is worth playing to the end.

 

[Shannow]

Speaking of, are there any mods/fixpacks that are actually worth using, i.e. fix actual bugs in rules and campaign?

Yes. You must install this: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Hakpaks.Detail&id=7935 (use Mediafire link at bottom of description)

As suggested, you may want to remove the GUI mod.

So, is there any way to remove it? For somebody who doesn't more about this stuff than ".hak files go into the hakpack folder. Stuff in the override folder overrides everything." ?

 

[almondblight]

Well, you need some way to gain more attacks, special abilities/feats, spells, etc.

The combat difficulty can be fixed or manipulated via level scaling, but that doesn't mean it can't become more complex as you progress.

Alternatively, just take away leveling completely, and increase complexity with encounter design and/or making more options available to the player that aren't more powerful, but are different.

 

[Infinitron]

Speaking of, are there any mods/fixpacks that are actually worth using, i.e. fix actual bugs in rules and campaign?

Yes. You must install this: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Hakpaks.Detail&id=7935 (use Mediafire link at bottom of description)

As suggested, you may want to remove the GUI mod.

So, is there any way to remove it? For somebody who doesn't more about this stuff than ".hak files go into the hakpack folder. Stuff in the override folder overrides everything." ?

Go into the override directory, and delete all the files which are also in the GUIMerge.7z file available on that page.

 

[sea]

Or they could have made it a modular update, just as it is with the texture packs for environments. Silly geese!

 

[Shannow]

Speaking of, are there any mods/fixpacks that are actually worth using, i.e. fix actual bugs in rules and campaign?

Yes. You must install this: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Hakpaks.Detail&id=7935 (use Mediafire link at bottom of description)

As suggested, you may want to remove the GUI mod.

So, is there any way to remove it? For somebody who doesn't more about this stuff than ".hak files go into the hakpack folder. Stuff in the override folder overrides everything." ?

Go into the override directory, and delete all the files which are also in the GUIMerge.7z file available on that page.

Tried that before my first post. Wasted time, was a pain and didn't work because I seem to have missed a few/deleted too many files. (Some file names were changed.)
I find that I can live with the UI. What's getting on my nerves is the stupid lense flare effect. What moron thought that'd be a good idea...
Anyway, will give the mod some more time. The new zombies looked stupid but better than vanilla ones... I'm curious about the other changes. In the end only the AI mod is important and that's easy to get by itself.

 

[Infinitron]

Tried that before my first post. Wasted time, was a pain and didn't work because I seem to have missed a few/deleted too many files. (Some file names were changed.)

Uh, okay. You can always copy the entire override again and try again.

 

[Volourn]

What the hell is wrong with the original zombies? They sure llook better than the 'improved' ones. L0L Some people have some fucked up tastes. Those zombies look more like skeles than anything.

Most 'improved' monsters look better but those zombies suck azz.Like the improved bugbears look awesome.

 

[sea]

I finished Shadows of Undrentide.

The good:

1. Nice writing, entertaining companions, good lore. Lots of great conversations that are lengthy and have a lot of different dialogue paths to explore. Companion dialogues don't matter that much in the grand scheme but each of them has a nice personality and backstory. There is a bit of wit and tongue-in-cheek handling of the material, which works well.
2. Early on, many story options. I was pleased that you could keep the MacGuffins for yourself, give them to a bad guy, or even sell them to a hermit, and the game would still proceed. It also didn't arbitrarily bar my progress in any way and let me explore freely.
3. Lots of varied scenarios and puzzles. This is exactly what BioWare games need more of. The combat itself is varied and enemies are actually challenging in a variety of ways, and you never find yourself "just" going through a dungeon for the most part, but there will be some sort of gimmick to each area.
4. Fast-paced. After one-to-many "epic" quests it's nice to see an RPG that moves along at a good pace. I think it took me about 15 hours to finish and it was just about the right length.
5. Stays away from typical high fantasy stuff to show more atypical settings, like deserts, magic cities, etc. There is a bit of that stuff in the first chapter but even that is handled well and mostly stays away from the cliches.
6. Lots of little "set piece" moments which are fun and help break things up. I already mentioned the "ox stampede" earlier but there are plenty of those moments throughout the game.
7. There are secrets, and some of them are very rewarding and actually take some thought to figure out.

And now the bad:

1. The beginning is the most boring part setting-wise but has the most interesting quests and characters. After chapter 1, the rest becomes entirely linear and basically just turns into a dungeon crawl. This severely harms the pacing. Even though the dungeons themselves are good, it gets monotonous to do nothing but fighting.
2. The puzzles start to disappear later on and are replaced mostly with just trash mobs to kill. It almost feels like BioWare took over development from Floodgate halfway through and resorted to their usual "fill every level with 100 copy-pasted monsters" shtick. It's still far better than most of their games but it's definitely noticeably padded later on.
3. Likewise, almost all the interesting quests disappear and are replaced with standard MacGuffin hunts. There are little details here and there that remain, like being able to use your Lore skill to translate ancient writings to get hints on the gameplay and story, but there are literally no side-quests whatsoever past the midway point.
4. Banal shit boring plot and villain. It starts out promisingly but then you find the villain is just some ancient medusa who wants to use an artifact to unlock untold powers, yada yada. The most interesting part of her resurrecting a floating magic city is completely wasted because all it turns into is a big dungeon crawl with her as the final boss, insane cackling at all. Early on I expected an interesting villain but all I got was a cardboard cut-out.
5. The desert caravan section feels really under-developed, as it whisks you from one linear location to the next. It feels like there were huge cuts made here.
6. Characters run out of interesting things to say or do. Past the halfway point, the most interesting conversation you will have is with a talking rat. The villain gets almost no screen-time and her motives are "I am evil!" Considering the dry wit and sense of humour shown in the rest of the campaign it feels like they just gave up near the end and put things on autopilot.
7. Bugs. At one point enemies stopped attacking me until I restarted the game, though it made the filler combat easier to manage for obvious reasons. I also lost a companion halfway through (he just decided to leave my party and I couldn't get him to rejoin), so I went through the remaining gameplay solo, which kinda sucked.

Overall, I'd give Shadows of Undrentide a 5/10 or 6/10, if I was scoring it. I had fun with it and it was definitely better than the original campaign by a wide margin. If it wasn't for the late-game faults it would easily be an 8/10 or 9/10.

Once I learned that multiple developers worked on it, it became very obvious why these flaws existed - there are large portions that show a lot of care put into things by people who obviously know and enjoy RPGs, but they are patched over by the negative qualities that BioWare were most known for at the time (and still kind of are). I don't want to say one developer is fully to blame for parts X or Y, but coming off of the original campaign it certainly feels that BioWare's contributions were rushed and apathetic.

 

[Volourn]

"It almost feels like BioWare took over development from Floodgate halfway through and resorted to their usual "fill every level with 100 copy-pasted monsters" shtick."

BIo did all 3 chapters.


"Once I learned that multiple developers worked on it, it became very obvious why these flaws existed - there are large portions that show a lot of care put into things by people who obviously know and enjoy RPGs, but they are patched over by the negative qualities that BioWare were most known for at the time (and still kind of are). I don't want to say one developer is fully to blame for parts X or Y, but coming off of the original campaign it certainly feels that BioWare's contributions were rushed and apathetic."

idiot. BIo gets the blame and the praise for SOU. Don't make shit up.

 

[Infinitron]

sea Now give HOTU a try. That's pure Bioware, so you can compare the two and attempt to draw conclusions. Don't forget to save your character for import - it's the same guy.

 

[sea]

idiot. BIo gets the blame and the praise for SOU. Don't make shit up.

People have asked you for a source that states who worked on what and I didn't see you provide one yet. I am drawing conclusions based on what I know about the quality (or lack thereof) of BioWare's writing and design at the time. If you have sources that say otherwise, please, by all means, show me, and I'll gladly revise my opinion. But knowing what I do about game development, the fact that the early game is way better than the late game, and that BioWare took over to finish things, suggests that even if they did work on the entire game themselves, chances are most of the best stuff was already done and they polished up what was there without being able to match the original work later on.

sea Now give HOTU a try. That's pure Bioware, so you can compare the two and attempt to draw conclusions. Don't forget to save your character for import - it's the same guy.

Yeah, I'll be doing that.

 

[Captain Shrek]

The fact is even early on there is trash combat: The kobolds and the Gnolls. The only GOOD encounter you missed in the review is the Cave with the Mummy, which has Bugbears. The game does NOT repeat a better non boss encounter until you reach the Formian stronghold.

Also, I have no idea which characters you liked. All of them are shallow and boring. The Dwarf is pure bile. The Orc is one trick pony who can't even keep up with that. Deekin is Jar jar.

I also would not call it fast paced. Because of the ridiculousness of the dungeons it stalls a lot.

 

[Volourn]

"People have asked you for a source that states who worked on what and I didn't see you provide one yet. I am drawing conclusions based on what I know about the quality (or lack thereof) of BioWare's writing and design at the time. If you have sources that say otherwise, please, by all means, show me, and I'll gladly revise my opinion. But knowing what I do about game development, the fact that the early game is way better than the late game, and that BioWare took over to finish things, suggests that even if they did work on the entire game themselves, chances are most of the best stuff was already done and they polished up what was there without being able to match the original work later on."

Do a search and stp being so fuckkkin' Codexian lazy. This top has been done tod etah both here and elsewhere. BIO (espciially the always talkative Mr. gaydar) have gone over this nonstop. the FG guys were active on the NWN forums until they got shitcanned. I tokld you already the 3 chapters 9coutning the middle 'interlude') were done by 3 seperate BIO devs (Gaydar and the WW one for one each). Only certyain scripts, icons, and other stuff were FG legacy shit. The actually campaign was redone because BIO thoguht FG's work wa sshit (though, of course, the actual comments was more PC than that).

Don't make up bullshit - espicially consideirng FG themselves ar enot known for their deep rpg shit - even elss than BIO (lol Codex LOL).


As for HOTU, you won't like it b/c you ar e amoran. I eman, youa ctually think SOU with its shitty kobold bard and its pathetic boss, and it's other retartedness is actually better than the OC. The SOu was not a challenge at all. Only way one dies is if theya re lazy or stupid. Maybe against the white dragon since you fight it at a low elvel but even then if you play smart it should be a piece of cake.

"The Dwarf is pure bile. The Orc is one trick pony who can't even keep up with that. Deekin is Jar jar."

Dwarf is alright. Nothing special. I agree on the half orc since the only thing about him is 'look a dumb orc can casts pells isn't that odd r00fles!). As for Deekin, you are being kind comapring him to Jar Jar. Top 3 worst BIO npc EVAR.

 

[aris]

""People have asked you for a source that states who worked on what and I didn't see you provide one yet. I am drawing conclusions based on what I know about the quality (or lack thereof) of BioWare's writing and design at the time. If you have sources that say otherwise, please, by all means, show me, and I'll gladly revise my opinion. But knowing what I do about game development, the fact that the early game is way better than the late game, and that BioWare took over to finish things, suggests that even if they did work on the entire game themselves, chances are most of the best stuff was already done and they polished up what was there without being able to match the original work later on."

Do a search and stp being so fuckkkin' Codexian lazy. This top has been done tod etah both here and elsewhere. BIO (espciially the always talkative Mr. gaydar) have gone over this nonstop. the FG guys were active on the NWN forums until they got shitcanned. I tokld you already the 3 chapters 9coutning the middle 'interlude') were done by 3 seperate BIO devs (Gaydar and the WW one for one each). Only certyain scripts, icons, and other stuff were FG legacy shit. The actually campaign was redone because BIO thoguht FG's work wa sshit (though, of course, the actual comments was more PC than that).

Don't make up bullshit - espicially consideirng FG themselves ar enot known for their deep rpg shit - even elss than BIO (lol Codex LOL).


As for HOTU, you won't like it b/c you ar e amoran. I eman, youa ctually think SOU with its shitty kobold bard and its pathetic boss, and it's other retartedness is actually better than the OC. The SOu was not a challenge at all. Only way one dies is if theya re lazy or stupid. Maybe against the white dragon since you fight it at a low elvel but even then if you play smart it should be a piece of cake.

"The Dwarf is pure bile. The Orc is one trick pony who can't even keep up with that. Deekin is Jar jar."

Dwarf is alright. Nothing special. I agree on the half orc since the only thing about him is 'look a dumb orc can casts pells isn't that odd r00fles!). As for Deekin, you are being kind comapring him to Jar Jar. Top 3 worst BIO npc EVAR."

 

[Roguey]

David Gaider said he wrote most of SoU's first chapter in this Codex interview: http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=148

He also said the expansion was Bioware's attempt at ~experimenting~ with multiple solutions and they decided all the scripting involved was more trouble than it was worth. http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/role-playing-in-dragon-age.18984/

As far as individual quests, there will generally be options as to how to complete them but there's never going to be every option. I remember in the beginning of Hordes there was an encounter with some kobolds holed up in a bar that had something like six different methods of completion -- and while it was an interesting experiment, that one tiny encounter required so much work it was almost mind-boggling and almost got cut because the complexity introduced too many bugs. So the idea, I think, is to strike a line somewhere in the middle.
...
Ah, yes, it was in SoU. I always mix those up. And there were only two consequences, if I remember right -- either you saved the kobolds or you didn't. There were just many ways of saving them or not saving them, probably more then were really necessary. In terms of the roleplaying it offered, it was very much in the neat-but-over-the-top category.