Pillars of Eternity Thread [Pre-Expansion]

[Kiste]

There are always dumbfucks. More people liked 3e and 3.5e. Pathfinder only came to be because those same dumbfucks though 4e D&D was a good idea LOL

Yes, D&D 3E and 3.5E sold extremely well but a lot of the momentum came from the OGL, which really popularized D20, and from exposure D&D had gained from the license CRPGs. Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's not shit.

Ultimately, it became clear that the system had some real problems, particularly when it comes to high level gameplay. The whole "system mastery" thing was just shit and that one is probably on Monte. For some reason people also blame him for the the massively overpowered magic classes and the boring and underpowered non-magic classes. I'm not sure if it's true but his publication history certainly seemed to indicate a certain bias towards ridiculous magic classes.

D&D 4E was actually a well-designed system for what it was. The problem with D&D 4E was that WotC kinda misread the market. A lot of people think that the system was designed to appeal to the MMO crowd because it features some design elements found in MMOs (like the threat mechanic) but I really doubt that. No WoW tard will suddenly start playing a PnP RPG because of some superficial similarities in some game mechanics.

I think WotC wanted to design a system that did a better job at supporting organized play, which kinda became a thing during 3E. They were probably banking on organized play becoming much bigger than it eventually did. Another problem with 4E was that it came too early after 3.5E. There was about a decade between AD&D and AD&D 2nd and there was another decade between AD&D 2nd and D&D 3rd. D&D 4 was a mere 5 years after 3.5. I don't think people were ready to chuck away their expensive 3.5 books just yet, especially not for a new system that didn't really feel like D&D.

Pathfinder wasn't created because people didn't like D&D 4E, it was created for licensing reasons. The D&D 4E license was much more restrictive than the OGL and that became a real problem for Paizo, since publishing shit for D&D was basically their whole business. I think releasing Pathfinder was a make-it-or-break-it kinda thing for Paizo and it worked out for them because 4E missed the mark with its target audience and Pathfinder successfully stepped in with D&D 3.5 compatibility and promises of cleaning up some of the worst elements of Monte's shit design. Feats and character progression are very much improved in Pathfinder.

And who did they call to fix the mess with 5e? Monte Cook. And then they didn't let him fix it enough so he left and made Numenera which is much superior to D&D.

We don't know what Monte Cook wanted to do with 5E. He either wanted to turn it into another needlessly complex abomination or he wanted to change it into some ultra-lightweight hipster system that had nothing to do with D&D. D&D 5e turned out a really sweet system (for PnP play that is), even without your boy Monte being involved.

BTW, Monte was not only designer of 3e AND he was also not allowed to do how he wanted and that is why D&D 3e had flaws.

Riiiiight. It was all the other guys. Not Monte! Not him!

 

[Hatred]

Looking at those DR table I would say flame might be the worst to choose. Also mace trumps warhammer against anything but a swamp lurker or a troll.

 

[Gord]

Heh, lvl 13 of the Paths, undetected trap (I even was looking for it) triggered by mainchar (wizard) - instant death.

That's something that needs to happen more often.

 

[Lhynn]

Yup, insta death traps that you cant see are gud fucking design. Are you really that starved for anything remotely interesting happening that you will take bullshit over nothing?

 

[Athelas]

Is it insta-death or did it just do more damage than your max endurance?

 

[Lhynn]

Is it insta-death or did it just do more damage than your max endurance?

More damage than his endurance, otherwise he wouldnt have said it was a wizard.

 

[Gord]

Well, my char was dead, not just knocked out, therefore I assume it was more damage than I had health.
Also unless they manage to give traps some long-lasting affliction, high health loss (potential death included) is the only effect that will give them any meaning outside of combat.
That it was still invisible was either a result of me not looking careful enough or a bug, I guess.

 

[Roguey]

Remember when inXile had Avellone do area design and it gave us phone-it-in Chris?

His areas were better than anything else in that game though.

That seems unlikely considering all the grumbling I've seen about the Ag Center.

According to this, the number is pretty much the same. Yes, the answer did surprise me, because to me it felt like there was a lot more in BG. Maybe because some types of enemies used to cast specific spells, or cause specific afflictions (basilisks, sirenes, spiders, dopplegangers, gibberlings, etc.).

Enemies cause afflictions in PoE too.

Regarding immunities, it's pretty funny how Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age II on nightmare, and Dragon Age Inquisition all have creatures with immunities, yet I haven't seen anyone here seriously claim that those games are so much tacticooler than Pillars. Getting over the anti-modern Bioware bias is seemingly a bridge too far.

As a bonus here's Josh slamming DAI immunity design

in this game, dragons are just immune to everything, because dragons

yeah that's dumb

 

[Rivmusique]

Traps should have given 'injuries' (like you get from the scripted interactions if your athletics or w/e is too low), just damaging is boring outside of combat. Even if it leads to a death, most just reload (indeed, you have to if it's the PC that dies) and anything else is pretty negligible. Throw some -% max endurance, -x attribute, -% recovery etc. on the player if he triggers traps, forcing them to use a camp supply or continue on with some crippled party. I'm pretty sure Sawyer said at some point that pure damage and deaths from traps was boring, so I thought this was how it would be. Also, xp from disarms is really dumb.

 

[Shevek]

Traps should have given 'injuries' (like you get from the scripted interactions if your athletics or w/e is too low), just damaging is boring outside of combat. Even if it leads to a death, most just reload (indeed, you have to if it's the PC that dies) and anything else is pretty negligible. Throw some -% max endurance, -x attribute, -% recovery etc. on the player if he triggers traps, forcing them to use a camp supply or continue on with some crippled party. I'm pretty sure Sawyer said at some point that pure damage and deaths from traps was boring, so I thought this was how it would be. Also, xp from disarms is really dumb.

I really like that suggestion. I think Gord mentioned that earlier as well. I wonder if thats moddable.

 

[RK47]

Is there some kind of way to map weapon swapping?
It's driving me insane doing the same over n over for all trash encounters.
Unload Ranged Weapon. Swap to regular weapon sets. Engage.
Combat ends. Swap back. Reload.

 

[Rivmusique]

I know you can map abilities by hovering over them then pressing the button you want to bind to it, perhaps you can do them same with sets? I never bothered to try because it would still involve selecting each individual character, which was the thing that annoyed me. Was wishing there were "all set 1" "all set 2" etc. buttons.

 

[RK47]

Can't be done. You can set group selection for general order move/attack/stop only.

 

[Hatred]

Regarding immunities, it's pretty funny how Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age II on nightmare, and Dragon Age Inquisition all have creatures with immunities, yet I haven't seen anyone here seriously claim that those games are so much tacticooler than Pillars. Getting over the anti-modern Bioware bias is seemingly a bridge too far.

um Roguey ... these games don't even have a tactical camera option. I hear in DA:I you literally cannot control your squad without switching from one to the other. Also all of the dragon age games are so easy that you can RMB your way through on nightmare. How can you even bring them up in a discussion about tacticool games.

 

[Dreaad]

So much edge and lies. PoE and the entire DA franchise suffer from the same shitty combat, cooldown abilities, no hard counters, no penalties for being knocked unconscious in every fight and endless swarms of encounters that are all exactly the fucking same. "RMB on nightmare" good one.

Amusingly enough Roguey the best (better than the rest at least) fights in DA series were the ones where enemies had immunities, to fire, stun or ice. Well that, and those endless undead waves when defending that shitty village, Redfern or whatever it was called.

 

[RK47]

Redcliffe lah.

 

[Hatred]

eh DA:O was the only one of the series I played through. I did rmb through on nightmare. Sure the first few levels were not like that. Once you get through one place in the 'circle' of places available it was a downhill slope which quickly ended with you only using RMB on Nightmare. I remember literally 1 fight in the entire game where I had to actually participate. Was when you were back in the city and some chick and her fancy sword with a room full of people who spawn surrounding you. Had to use my hands to play that fight. I think I was escaping from a prison or something, idk it was a long time ago and the game was very grindy. You can definitely RMB your way through at least half the game on nightmare with the release version of DA:O.
I did have no internets back then and actually relied on PC magazines for patches so that might have contributed to it. I was always in newsagencies looking for patches.

Edit : even a friend of mine playing their very first CRPG had the same problem of RMB on nightmare.
2nd Edit : actually I just spoke to said friend. I did have the internet at that point. So it wasnt some lack of patches. The game is just stupidly easy once you start to overlevel it just like PoE >.> (which is why I think PoE is on the DA level not the BG level of games)

 

[Commissar Draco]

. Also, xp from disarms is really dumb.

Would not be dumb if game has real stealth like in DND 3.5 had and thus ability to RP thief/spy/saboteur who relies on avoiding detection and thus combat... of course even in NWN there is choice you either keep XP from disarming trap or trap itself.

 

[J_C]

As a bonus here's Josh slamming DAI immunity design

in this game, dragons are just immune to everything, because dragons

yeah that's dumb

Wow, great argument from Josh.

 

[AwesomeButton]

So, after being laughed off on enemy variety as promised, Roguey decides to clutch at the straw of afflictions.

Enemies cause afflictions in PoE too?

Maybe the problem is that when you try to prevent any weapon/spell/affliction/damage type/etc. from being "overpowered" you end up with a system where nothing is of any consequence? And where it doesn't matter what you use because everything works the same or marginally the same. That's what people have been repeating since they started playing.

Oh yeah, now DAI is more tactical than PoE, right? When your trollbait gets so obvious I wonder if you really aren't going just for the comic effect.

meanwhile in pilloe
flying drake can be knocked down by pouring some oil beneath it
flame blights can be burned to death
slimes can be blinded
so smart

Oh crap, I was just about to fight drakes in Searing Falls, and was just hoping they wouldn't be that dumb as to allow me to knock down flying creatures with Slicken!

BTW, Flanked is -10 deflection, so it's one of the more meaningful afflictions.

 

[Ziem]

According to this, the number is pretty much the same. Yes, the answer did surprise me, because to me it felt like there was a lot more in BG. Maybe because some types of enemies used to cast specific spells, or cause specific afflictions (basilisks, sirenes, spiders, dopplegangers, gibberlings, etc.).

Enemies cause afflictions in PoE too.

outside of charm and similar effects none of these afflictions really matter, they don't change the way i play. wow, my tank is hobbled, weakened and flanked, big fucking deal. its not like i could retreat even if i wanted to because of that garbage engagement system which makes the characters even more bipolar (you're either a tank or dps nothing inbetween makes any sense)

As a bonus here's Josh slamming DAI immunity design

in this game, dragons are just immune to everything, because dragons

yeah that's dumb

meanwhile in pilloe
flying drake can be knocked down by pouring some oil beneath it
flame blights can be burned to death
slimes can be blinded
so smart

 

[RK47]

it's fucking intuitive faggot.
when i go home from work i want to kill monsters by left clicking.
not fucking wonder if i can burn a flame or knockdown this puddle of living ooze.
i'd tell you to shut up coz its fun but grognards gonna grognards.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

@Roguey
AG center is the best, most detailed are in the game and the only reason anyone could dislike it is because rabbits are a bit too annoying. Still, as far as writing and overall atmosphere goes nothing tops it. The game would be great if every area was all well-thought as the AG center.

 

[Western]

Did one playthrough on hard with a monk which was pretty easy with the exception of the bounty on the giants, the dragon and the last fight. Now I'm playing on POTD, I don't think the difficulty is dramatically different but overall I'm having more fun.

On POTD I'm playing a gun slinging Paladin (Bleak Walker Deathlike cunt). My party is probably sub-optimal as a result, the more 'control' you have (Ciphers, wizards, druids), the easier the game will be, most OP party would probably be 2 tanks, a cleric and 3 'control'.

Paladin is not a great class unless you want a pure tank but I rolled up a barbarian for the party and they have some good synergy. Barbarian is running crit stun and prone weapons, vengeful defeat, and sickening aura to complement the ability that targets fortitude if lower than deflection. Paladin has abilities that synergise with all these things, so together they do a good job of wrecking stuff.

The barbarian is especially funny, goes down and gets rezzed half a dozen times per battle (been KO'd over 100 times), but that's the idea with vengeful defeat. It also solves the squishiness problem.

Overall I do like the game but it does feel more Icewind Dale 2 then Baldurs Gate 2. I miss hard counters, pre buffing, contingencies and the itemisation overall is meh. There are some interesting items, but many are randomised which is a bad idea, some of these items can increase spell or ranged damage by 20% or give you a summon, flame shield but you might never see them.

The structure of the story reminds me a bit of NWN2, overall it's a better game than NWN2 but there are areas where it falls a bit short, especially in directly overlapping areas, the trial, the keep and companion interaction. I won't go into much detail cause spoilers, but there are only a couple of characters that feel stronger than NWN2 characters (Durance and Grieving Mother, which were apparently neutered), but volume of companion quests and interactions are lower, NWN2 had some interesting interparty rivalries and consequences beyond just the late game (you could change the dwarfs class if you played his quest line a particular way).

Also the game has too much lore dumping, I'm hoping sequels and expansions will not be so heavy on exposition, my preference is when some parts can be left up to debate or speculation.

 

[Roguey]

um Roguey ... these games don't even have a tactical camera option.

O and I do, but a tactical cam isn't necessary, it's a convenience feature.

Also all of the dragon age games are so easy that you can RMB your way through on nightmare.

Every fight requires the use of abilities.

So much edge and lies. PoE and the entire DA franchise suffer from the same shitty combat, cooldown abilities, no hard counters, no penalties for being knocked unconscious in every fight and endless swarms of encounters that are all exactly the fucking same.

But enemies have immunities, that means you have to "mix it up."

Additionally, there are hard counters in DA:O. Due to a bug, cone of cold is a hard counter against everything. Force field is a hard counter to anyone by design. Glyph of neutralization, mana drain, mana cleanse, and mana clash are hard counters against mages. Dispel magic and anti-magic burst are hard counters against any buff/debuff. Anti-magic ward is a hard counter against all magic.

DAII also has a number of spells that have a 100% chance of working against normal-ranked enemies.

The penalty for getting knocked down is an injury. In O, they were trivial, in II it took off 20% of your max health each time.