Eternity Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire Pre-Release Thread [BETA RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Iznaliu]

$4m reached!

 

[Infinitron]

Oh yeah. Two competitive milestones to look forward to now:

Torment's Kickstarter total: $4,188,927 (including Fig funds)
Divinity: Original Sin 2's Kickstarter total: $2,032,434 (regular pledges only)

 

[Prime Junta]

Is it supposed to be a pirate ship? I mean pirates would use whatever they had, usually ships smaller than frigates because it would be impossible for them to capture anything of the sort so they used merchant vessels and if they were lucky a brig that was given privateer "rights", in the Mediterranean xebecs also perhaps, which were rigged in similar way but would not be in that shape. In case of PC and his companions to me it sounded like they don't have a ship for piracy purposes but rather travel, a caravel or a carrack would make sense as late medieval and early Renaissance ships, depending on how much wealth PC had.

I don't think they're going for historical accuracy rather than an aesthetic theme. I'm pretty happy if their designs make sense in context and have the right vibe. They've previously described the tech level as Renaissance, minus the printing press. Seventeenth- or even eighteenth-century sailing vessels wouldn't be too badly out of place. Rauatai at least has been seafaring for a very long time so it wouldn't be unexpected to see some highly refined designs from them. Probably Old Vailia too. And those designs would likely have been copied by less nautically-advanced nations.

So my main objections to the ship design are:

(1) It's not a sloop damnit
(2) It's ugly
(3) It doesn't look all that seaworthy and certainly not efficient
(4) It doesn't have that cool Pirates of the Caribbean vibe they seem to be going after
(5) IT'S NOT A FUCKING SLOOP!

 

[Hyperion]

Well the game did just crack $4 million, so we'll be geting more factually incorrect and anachronistic ships I suppose.

 

[FreeKaner]

Is it supposed to be a pirate ship? I mean pirates would use whatever they had, usually ships smaller than frigates because it would be impossible for them to capture anything of the sort so they used merchant vessels and if they were lucky a brig that was given privateer "rights", in the Mediterranean xebecs also perhaps, which were rigged in similar way but would not be in that shape. In case of PC and his companions to me it sounded like they don't have a ship for piracy purposes but rather travel, a caravel or a carrack would make sense as late medieval and early Renaissance ships, depending on how much wealth PC had.

I don't think they're going for historical accuracy rather than an aesthetic theme. I'm pretty happy if their designs make sense in context and have the right vibe. They've previously described the tech level as Renaissance, minus the printing press. Seventeenth- or even eighteenth-century sailing vessels wouldn't be too badly out of place. Rauatai at least has been seafaring for a very long time so it wouldn't be unexpected to see some highly refined designs from them. Probably Old Vailia too. And those designs would likely have been copied by less nautically-advanced nations.

So my main objections to the ship design are:

(1) It's not a sloop damnit
(2) It's ugly
(3) It doesn't look all that seaworthy and certainly not efficient
(4) It doesn't have that cool Pirates of the Caribbean vibe they seem to be going after
(5) IT'S NOT A FUCKING SLOOP!

I don't care for anachronistic either but logic, I would be fine with them having frigates or the ships of later period age of sail too, even though it would be out of date but my point was not the historical accuracy but simply the logic given technology and purpose it would make sense to have a carrack or a caravel. I also rather they use correct terms still, if not that at that point we might give people spears and call them swords. In any case I didn't disagree with you or challenge your point in any way, I was just expanding with my own thoughts.

 

[Sizzle]

(3) It doesn't look all that seaworthy and certainly not efficient

This probably makes sense from a story perspective - the Dyrwoodans weren't described as good seafarers (at least I've never seen them touted as such anywhere), which is probably the reason why the ship looks so sucky.

Also, it's possible that's the first ship (capable of transversing long distances) you could get on such short notice. And we'll obviously be able to upgrade it to make it less sucky more efficient.

 

[Prime Junta]

This probably makes sense from a story perspective - the Dyrwoodans weren't described as good seafarers (at least I've never seen them touted as such anywhere), which is probably the reason why the ship looks so sucky.

Even so, if it's supposed to survive an ocean voyage at all, it has to make some kind of sense. That ugly hull would be somewhat believable if it was square-rigged, like a cog, but the way they angled up the boom on the gaff sail to have it clear the aftcasle is just... gaah, it's terrible. And if it was a caravel or carrack it would have a mizzenmast at the very least, with a square (or lateen) mainsail.

I wonder how come they dropped the ball so badly on this one. The game looks good overall and in general they've been pretty decent about what they pick for references for their designs, and it's not like they're terribly strapped for time. That really looks like it was modeled by someone who never really looked at a sailing ship before.

(I built a bunch of scale models of these when I was a kid, including one of the Santa Maria which would've been a pretty nice reference to base the Defiant on, for that matter, if you wanted to be period-correct. I AM TRIGGERED)

edit: I will name it Driftwood

 

[Merlkir]

Did anyone call it a rapier though? It looks like a smallsword, yes. So?

 

[Prime Junta]

Did anyone call it a rapier though? It looks like a smallsword, yes. So?

http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Rapier

 

[cannondwarf]

Did anyone call it a rapier though? It looks like a smallsword, yes. So?

They call one-handed swords longswords so I wouldn't get my hopes up.

 

[aeonsim]

This probably makes sense from a story perspective - the Dyrwoodans weren't described as good seafarers (at least I've never seen them touted as such anywhere), which is probably the reason why the ship looks so sucky.

Even so, if it's supposed to survive an ocean voyage at all, it has to make some kind of sense. That ugly hull would be somewhat believable if it was square-rigged, like a cog, but the way they angled up the boom on the gaff sail to have it clear the aftcasle is just... gaah, it's terrible. And if it was a caravel or carrack it would have a mizzenmast at the very least, with a square (or lateen) mainsail.

I wonder how come they dropped the ball so badly on this one. The game looks good overall and in general they've been pretty decent about what they pick for references for their designs, and it's not like they're terribly strapped for time. That really looks like it was modeled by someone who never really looked at a sailing ship before.

(I built a bunch of scale models of these when I was a kid, including one of the Santa Maria which would've been a pretty nice reference to base the Defiant on, for that matter, if you wanted to be period-correct. I AM TRIGGERED)

edit: I will name it Driftwood

Well you've got a year and a bit to convince them to fix it, the current ship is probably the result of the 3d artist googling 16th and 17th Century ships and grabbing bits and pieces from a dozen different images...
Send JS a pile of links to proper ships and the problems and ask him to get it fixed via twitter or tumbler.

 

[Merlkir]

Did anyone call it a rapier though? It looks like a smallsword, yes. So?

http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Rapier

Yes? They're a bit short, but they do have more correct guards than the sword Ydwin is holding. Those I wouldn't have too much trouble calling rapiers. I was talking about her.

 

[aeonsim]

Did anyone call it a rapier though? It looks like a smallsword, yes. So?

They call one-handed swords longswords so I wouldn't get my hopes up.

Yep I'm pretty sure there was a discussion around this for PoE1 with the developers and the end result was 'We known it's incorrect, but the ******* expect it so...'.

 

[Prime Junta]

The shadow of D&D looms heavy.

They got weapons inexcusably wrong. Names not matching models (the "rapier" which is actually a cutlass one of the worst offenders), and there were a whole bunch which are ridiculously impractical, and not in a cool way -- like, a double-bladed sword still passes the "cool" test, but a dire flail? And how in the name of Mog are you supposed to fight with a gnomish hooked hammer without perforating your own gut?

At least they've gotten rid of most of that level of stupid. Calling an arming sword a longsword, or having slightly anachronistic rapiers isn't that bad.

 

[Luckmann]

To be fair, though, "Longswords" are a fantasy staple. Masturbating over real-world terminology that in reality was different depending on time and place is ridiculous.

That said, it would be a very small change, I just don't see the point.

The shadow of D&D looms heavy.

They got weapons inexcusably wrong. Names not matching models (the "rapier" which is actually a cutlass one of the worst offenders), and there were a whole bunch which are ridiculously impractical, and not in a cool way -- like, a double-bladed sword still passes the "cool" test, but a dire flail? And how in the name of Mog are you supposed to fight with a gnomish hooked hammer without perforating your own gut?

At least they've gotten rid of most of that level of stupid. Calling an arming sword a longsword, or having slightly anachronistic rapiers isn't that bad.

As far as I'm aware, most of the really stupid shit came from later editions and it got increasingly insane due to a combination of feature bloat and power creep. Each supplement has to offer something new, and suddenly you're standing there with your Dire Scythes and your double-edged chain-kukris.

I hated how some things turned out for PoE, but I actually liked most of the weapons. I still wish that the Saber (...I think) had gotten to keep the bleeding effect, and there was a bit too much repetition, and I still think that the importance of weapons/armour could've been played up a lot (I remember a really good thread we had on that subject, that I cannot find today).

I think it got a bit ridiculous especially in White March, and I worry about PoE2 in this regard, since they've said that they want to have even more "epic" weapons towards the end than what was in White March, but base PoE? Pretty neat.

 

[FreeKaner]

Did anyone call it a rapier though? It looks like a smallsword, yes. So?

http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Rapier

Yes? They're a bit short, but they do have more correct guards than the sword Ydwin is holding. Those I wouldn't have too much trouble calling rapiers. I was talking about her.

Those aren't rapiers in the slightest, it's not about the hilt, rapiers have plenty types of hilts. Those are just foils. Rapiers have lengthy flat blades and are on the heavier side for a one-handed sword, they are longer than bastard swords. As a said in previous post, it's like having a short broadsword and calling it a claymore, sure in the end it's just random terminology someone who never looked up won't even care about it but it's not even related aside from "general feeling" of it being a double-edged sword. Moreover, it's something they can fix in basically 5 minutes.

 

[Jenkem]

4M get

 

[Merlkir]

Did anyone call it a rapier though? It looks like a smallsword, yes. So?

http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Rapier

Yes? They're a bit short, but they do have more correct guards than the sword Ydwin is holding. Those I wouldn't have too much trouble calling rapiers. I was talking about her.

Those aren't rapiers in the slightest, it's not about the hilt, rapiers have plenty types of hilts. Those are just foils. Rapiers have lengthy flat blades and are on the heavier side for a one-handed sword, they are longer than bastard swords. As a said in previous post, it's like having a short broadsword and calling it a claymore, sure in the end it's just random terminology someone who never looked up won't even care about it but it's not even related aside from "general feeling" of it being a double-edged sword. Moreover, it's something they can fix in basically 5 minutes.

Rapiers have a variety of blade lengths and widths. Notice I did say they were short for a typical rapier. But please, keep explaining swords to me, I am an ignorant child on the internet.

 

[Quillon]

Obs is sleeping on the last day too, they should have put at least one guy to tweet that they passed $4M, its these milestones "game journalists" care about.

 

[FreeKaner]

Did anyone call it a rapier though? It looks like a smallsword, yes. So?

http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Rapier

Yes? They're a bit short, but they do have more correct guards than the sword Ydwin is holding. Those I wouldn't have too much trouble calling rapiers. I was talking about her.

Those aren't rapiers in the slightest, it's not about the hilt, rapiers have plenty types of hilts. Those are just foils. Rapiers have lengthy flat blades and are on the heavier side for a one-handed sword, they are longer than bastard swords. As a said in previous post, it's like having a short broadsword and calling it a claymore, sure in the end it's just random terminology someone who never looked up won't even care about it but it's not even related aside from "general feeling" of it being a double-edged sword. Moreover, it's something they can fix in basically 5 minutes.

Rapiers have a variety of blade lengths and widths. Notice I did say they were short for a typical rapier. But please, keep explaining swords to me, I am an ignorant child on the internet.

Rapiers never have that type of oval "blades", if it doesn't have a flat blade, it's not a rapier, length varies of course, especially by late 17th century they got shorter than 16th century ones which were regularly over 42" but if it doesn't have a flat blade it is not a rapier, easy as that. If you don't want to use specific terminology in a game, that's perfectly fine for me, go with swords, longswords, shortswords, two-handed swords but if you use terminology it's appropriate that it's used correctly instead of just randomly labeling things by "general feeling".

 

[Merlkir]

I honestly can't tell if it has a flat or a round blade from the tiny size on screen. Again, they look more rapier-like than what Ydwin has in her hand.

 

[FreeKaner]

I honestly can't tell if it has a flat or a round blade from the tiny size on screen. Again, they look more rapier-like than what Ydwin has in her hand.

I think both of those are based on the same base type of "rapier" that exists in PoE, which is a short foil with a cup-hilt. The ones in PoE1 look exactly like the one Ydwin holds in artwork. It's obviously the same sword, unless they renamed the old rapiers in PoE as foils/smallswords and added actual rapiers.

 

[Merlkir]

I honestly can't tell if it has a flat or a round blade from the tiny size on screen. Again, they look more rapier-like than what Ydwin has in her hand.

I think both of those are based on the same base type of "rapier" that exists in PoE, which is a short foil with a cup-hilt. The ones in PoE1 look exactly like the one Ydwin holds in artwork. It's obviously the same sword, unless they renamed the old rapiers in PoE as foils/smallswords and added actual rapiers.

To me it looks like a simplified smallsword hilt:

 

[Prime Junta]

I honestly can't tell if it has a flat or a round blade from the tiny size on screen. Again, they look more rapier-like than what Ydwin has in her hand.

I think both of those are based on the same base type of "rapier" that exists in PoE, which is a short foil with a cup-hilt. The ones in PoE1 look exactly like the one Ydwin holds in artwork. It's obviously the same sword, unless they renamed the old rapiers in PoE as foils/smallswords and added actual rapiers.

I dunno why, but for some reason most laymen picture a foil/épée/whatever when someone says rapier, the same way they picture an arming sword when somebody says longsword. Technical usage and common usage don't always agree. Obsidian is going with common usage here. I have no doubt that Josh, the geek that he is, knows the difference.

Buuuuut

I'm pretty sure that if you said "sloop" most laymen would picture a sleek single-masted sailing boat flying a lot of canvas, not that floating clog.

 

[FreeKaner]

I honestly can't tell if it has a flat or a round blade from the tiny size on screen. Again, they look more rapier-like than what Ydwin has in her hand.

I think both of those are based on the same base type of "rapier" that exists in PoE, which is a short foil with a cup-hilt. The ones in PoE1 look exactly like the one Ydwin holds in artwork. It's obviously the same sword, unless they renamed the old rapiers in PoE as foils/smallswords and added actual rapiers.

To me it looks like a simplified smallsword hilt:

See even that has a flat blade, although yes hilt is typical of a smallsword I agree with that but to me the one in the artwork is not that but this:

Which is a fencing foil and they are literally practice and sport swords, not weapons.

Another funny thing here in this picture:

Spoiler

The parrying daggers accompanying the rapiers are longer than the "rapiers" in PoE1.