There's nothing inherently wrong with pure revenge fantasy (Kreia is ultimately a revenge motivated character, for example). At most, there can be plenty wrong with the motivations for the revenge, which I'd agree can be perceived as childish by some in the case of Irenicus. But I also partially agreed to this when I said above that "BG2 has a simple narrative and characters". The point is, the BG2 writers didn't have any illusions of grandeur with going for pseudo-philosophical themes. Eothas isn't even an antagonist in PoE2. He's like the nicest character you meet in the entire game. Irenicus's final fight was also better than PoE2's, which didn't have a final confrontation with anyone at all. You talk to Eothas and he's all like "Bros, I love you all very much, and I have faith in you. Just b urselves =)", you say "1. Okay" and the game ends.
- antagonist - cmon, Irenicus is a Mary Sue and his motivation is a pure revenge fantasy, Eothas at least adds a spin to it
In dumpsterfire not the first one.Lacrymas who did you sacrifice to Skaen in this game?
Sagani for the PER and ACC bonuses.
In dumpsterfire not the first one.
antagonist - cmon, Irenicus is a Mary Sue and his motivation is a pure revenge fantasy, Eothas at least adds a spin to it
Because the events up to the first town (even up to Maerwald) aren't connected to each other. There are 4 events - your belly ache and the search for berries, the attack on the caravan, the dungeon delving and the ritual at Cilant Lis.
The first soulguilt trip becomes the focus of the story because it leads up to Iovara, but the narrative wasn't about that before and it still isn't, you have to catch up to Thaos, so that's where it falls apart. It splits itself into two disconnected parts. I don't know if I'm explaining it understanbly.
It is good to see that i am not the only one that managed to peer through the veil of time wasting shenanigans and see how small the actual content is.Ultimately my main problem with PoE2 is that every questline felt so incredibly short. I just did a google search for Fallout New Vegas faction quests and:
Brotherhood of Steel, a minor faction, has 5 quests;
Followers of the Apocalypse, a minor faction, have 6 quests;
Great Khans, a minor faction, have 5 quests;
Boomers, a minor faction, have 4 quests;
Caesar's Legion, a major faction, has 20 quests;
Yes Man, a major faction, has 8 quests;
Mr. House, a major faction, has 13 quests;
NCR, a major faction, has 42 quests.
Any quest where you can side with faction X is counted towards faction X's quest count (this doesn't always mean that there's a choice in which faction's side to take).
In terms of areas:
Primm has 7 quests;
Novac has 9 quests;
Goodsrpings has 11 quests.
In terms of main questline:
Caesar's Legion run has 4 quests;
Yes Man run has 7 quests;
Mr. House run has 9 quests;
NCR run has 5 quests;
This is not including the 2 introductory quests (They Went That-a-Way & Ring-a-Ding-Ding)
F:NV's shortest questline is 5 quests. My memory may be getting hazy, or maybe my game was bugged out, but I think the longest questline I saw in PoE2 was the main quest. Upon checking, it has 7 quests, this counting the introductory one.
The faction questlines for PoE2:
5 for the Principi;
6 for Royal Deadfire Company;
7 for Vailian Republics.
I felt PoE2 had tons of sidequests that were left hanging. I keep moaning about this but it really is the most disappointing aspect of the game. Arkemyr's quest is the most damning example of this.
FNV had 18 months in development with a ready-to-go engine. PoE2 spent, let's be generous, 1 year in engine development work. That leaves 2 years for game development. What happened? Where did the quests go?
True. I already commented on it though.
- Bg quests with multiple solutions are rarity, you don't need even the &C part of C&C.
There's nothing inherently wrong with pure revenge fantasy. At most, there can be plenty wrong with the motivations for the revenge, which I'd agree can be perceived as childish by some in the case of Irenicus. But I also partially agreed to this when I said above that "BG2 has a simple narrative and characters". The point is, the BG2 writers didn't have any illusions of grandeur with going for pseudo-philosophical themes. Eothas isn't even an antagonist in PoE2. He's like the nicest character you meet in the entire game. Irenicus's final fight was also better than PoE2's, which didn't have a final confrontation with anyone at all. You talk to Eothas and he's all like "Bros, I love you all very much, and I have faith in you. Just b urselves =)", you say "1. Okay" and the game ends.
- antagonist - cmon, Irenicus is a Mary Sue and his motivation is a pure revenge fantasy, Eothas at least adds a spin to it
But I'm interested, what spin do you feel Eothas puts on the revenge fantasy trope? I don't think he wanted revenge at all. At least not in my game.
I mean SoA. I never completed ToB.
- Do you mean ToB or SoA ending here? If SoA, the I agree, Deadfire ending kinda feels like how Bg2 would be if the game ends after you kill him at the tree, without the trials
As for the "romanticized feelings towards BG2", I didn't play through it when I was young, so there isn't any nostalgia involved there.
Lacrymas who did you sacrifice to Skaen in this game?
Sagani for the PER and ACC bonuses.
Not the chain of events, the events themselves aren't connected to each other. It would've been the same narrative had the caravan not been attacked and you hadn't gone through the dungeon.
I will go as far as to say that part of the genius here is that most people enjoyed Irenicus without ever realizing the themes.
Why is that important though, it not being deliberated by destiny?
Random minor stuff happens, that's life.
Themes are only themes if they go somewhere. If we go by your interpretation, what does it mean when Irenicus lost? That society is stronger than the individual? That birthright is stronger than whatever challenger? How are these themes explored besides he mouthing off?
Themes are only themes if they go somewhere. If we go by your interpretation, what does it mean when Irenicus lost? That society is stronger than the individual? That birthright is stronger than whatever challenger? How are these themes explored besides he mouthing off?
That's up to you and me to decide. It is not a propaganda piece. In Greek tragedy the actors are right and wrong at the same time (I am quoting Hegel's opinion on Greek tragedy here, but don't ask me to trace the quote), and the point is to make us think. But maybe we don't want to think, that's OK too, and then we have a cool story to watch.
Why is that important though, it not being deliberated by destiny?
Random minor stuff happens, that's life.
Because it's a waste of time in a fictional constructed narrative. Nobody will ever give you the advice to write about random disconnected events that don't matter to something within the closed plot system as a whole. And that's why it's illogical in the context of writing.
That's up to you and me to decide. It is not a propaganda piece. In Greek tragedy the actors are right and wrong at the same time (I am quoting Hegel's opinion on Greek tragedy here, but don't ask me to trace the quote), and the point is to make us think. But maybe we don't want to think, that's OK too, and then we have a cool story to watch.
At the end of the day it's just the tutorial. Candlekeep in Chapter One of BG isn't that great either. You could get rid of that whole area and just start with Gorion's murder and not much would be lost. But the tutorial section has to do stupid things in order to teach neophytes how to play.
It is good to see that i am not the only one that managed to peer through the veil of time wasting shenanigans and see how small the actual content is.
I thought it was pretty cool. Great environmental art, and I actually got a chance to use stealth. It is very short, like many of the dungeons so far.Ashen Maw is incredibly dull and short. The fact it ends on such a lame "climax" is the cherry on the cake.
It really is very stupid. I guess I wasn't prepared, even knowing that journos themselves found it bad.
God dammit. Xoti made it worse.
Jesus.
Wow.
That is what i am preaching for the past 100 pages while obsidian shils just say how i am lying and the game is huge and filled with content.It is good to see that i am not the only one that managed to peer through the veil of time wasting shenanigans and see how small the actual content is.
Perhaps they've finished the first dlc already. Obsidian just sold you half a game.
He is one of the greatest elves to have ever lived in Faerun. His elven magicks he accrued over his long life are far superior to the pathetic (and useless) magicks of lesser-lived vermin. Gary Stu? No, he's an elf.Marty Sue comment was how he continuously succeeds and cucks you at every turn effortlessly (soloing the Cowled Wizards?)
I was going to go on a rant about the opinions of longwinded and boring 18th century spastics, but I decided it's besides the point. The point being that you think there are themes that are explored by Irenicus. How are they explored? Let's say we go the wishy-washy, Hegelian "it's about the conflict of two equally valid points", where does that leave us and how do we make up our individual minds about this? We saw that Irenicus loses, yet he's the stronger challenger and the individualist who goes against society to become a god, what is the second, equally valid point here and how do the exploration of themes lead us to it?