Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Shadenuat]

Irenicus is a slamdunk antagonist who made history, and the themes behind him are very deep for those who might care

Ah

I always thought Irenicus was good because he was voiced by Ras Alghul

And because he was a simple villain that served the game excellently without overwhelming whole world and whole setting with his desire to destroy the celestial heavens and bring down the world order - he just wanted to be god, like many other D&D people, why hate the dude, eh? He was like a character a D&D player could come up with and finish at high level, as crazy but fun. He had small humane(elvish) part about banging elf queen and then betraying elfs, but was completely evil and irredeemable (before modders fixed it). He was larger than life and a powerful wizard, serving as a live presentation of one of the best systems in the game. And he was dangerous, because spellcasters are dangerous. And annoying. And his dream sequences while retarded, carried a simple message. He was also interesting in a sense that he was not, in fact, a bhaalspawn, but wanted to replace you.

Overall, I wouldn't even say he was written better than Sarevok, especially if we combine BG1 Sarevok with ToB Sarevok (I just like the idea of 2 bhaalspawn, blood relatives, one of which got all the good mentors and another was abandoned and got all the evul ones and how roles could be theoretically reversed), but he worked. He was memorable. And also the end fight against him, just as against Sarevok, was friggin bonkers and larger than anything, and it did feel personal to your character. Hey, not just your character actually. For Jaheira, and Minsc too. And Valygar who hated wizords. In fact, all companions seemed to be itchy to fight the bastard. Worked well, surprisingly, even without too much extra content for this part.

Was larger than anything PoE has with it's own boss fights, that is. None of them are personal, and none provide similar satisfaction of a win against thing which felt so unreachable before.

Irenicus didn't have any "depth", imo. No more than any D&D villain had in some D&D books like loldrizzd. But thing is, Eothas does not have any either. He's pointless. Your journey in the end feels pointless. Eothas is no Myrkul or some other character from MoTB. The THEMES seem to repeat themselves (hey let's destroy thing holding souls), but the execution is like on whole multiple layers beneath writing MoTB has. Is there ever a friggin actual deeper twist on the whole thing? What is the conflict? What does one game matter? If in the end, Eothas just does his thing, and you just observe it. And then read bunch of slides about your gay friends.

An example of dialogue from PoE2:
Xoti: Eothas, look at me it's me, Imoen!
Eothas: Yeah yeah ok

An example of dialogue with your companion and a god about souls from better game IN LE BORING FORGOTENREALMS SETTING HURR:



Fuck. Where did it all go so wrong? Why did we lose this?

Fuck.

 

[MajorMace]

It is good to see that i am not the only one that managed to peer through the veil of time wasting shenanigans and see how small the actual content is.

Perhaps they've finished the first dlc already. Obsidian just sold you half a game.

That is what i am preaching for the past 100 pages while obsidian shils just say how i am lying and the game is huge and filled with content.

No. People called your bullshit out on two things: 100% in 30h and poe1 having more content (or being better, I don't even...)
Both these assertions are obviously completely retarded to anybody who actually plays the damn game without auto-pilot AI, on normal and permanent fast mode, you spastic.

This being said, and duely deserved really (and to think you even took the time to clean the map of all bounties and ships, truely baffling), the main quest sucks pretty hard now that I know the actual plot. God that's bad. I know what you mean by "I killed people and they showed up alive" now.
Minor factions are indeed barebone compared to NV. Some don't even show up in the reputation screen.

As I said, game should have been tighter and more focused instead of spreading so thin and horizontal instead of vertical. Shame.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Arkemyr's quest is the most damning example of this.

Wait, what? What's wrong with Arkemyr's quest exactly? You have to go through one of the best dungeons in the game to even get that quest, then you get a follow up quest with another two-story dungeon, and a nice set-piece boss-fight with a suprising cameo of PoE1 character. And then you have a follow-up CYOA in Arkermyrs palace that probably has some reactivity baked into it depending on how you do it. All in all, that's a fuckton of content for a side quest.

 

[ScrotumBroth]

Irenicus is a slamdunk antagonist who made history, and the themes behind him are very deep for those who might care. I have written about the themes before, but here is some food for thought again:

- Revenge. Obvious one.
- Individual vs Society (Irenicus clashes with his people when they ask him to know his place)
- Birthright (Bhaalspawn) vs Challenger (Irenicus), in weird reversed roles, since Irenicus is more formidable than the Bhaalspawn at the beginning of the adventure.
- Hybris (by Irenicus) & Nemesis (ie, punishment for said hubris), in the tradition of Greek Tragedy.
(Hybris: Wanting to be a God without having the birthright / turning against his own people and gods / arrogance over the threat of the Bhaalspawn)

The execution of the above themes in the context of a videogame is also nearly flawless. They never overburden the player, they just support the characters and drive the narrative, like a drummer who knows when to not steal the show. Add to that Warner's voice acting and some very strong monologues, and you have one of the most memorable videogame antagonists of all time.

I will go as far as to say that part of the genius here is that most people enjoyed Irenicus without ever realizing the themes.

Fantastic post. Irenicus was a massive upgrade from Sarevok.

 

[fantadomat]

It is good to see that i am not the only one that managed to peer through the veil of time wasting shenanigans and see how small the actual content is.

Perhaps they've finished the first dlc already. Obsidian just sold you half a game.

That is what i am preaching for the past 100 pages while obsidian shils just say how i am lying and the game is huge and filled with content.

No. People called your bullshit out on two things: 100% in 30h and poe1 having more content (or being better, I don't even...)
Both these assertions are obviously completely retarded to anybody who actually plays the damn game without auto-pilot AI, on normal and permanent fast mode, you spastic.

They called it bullshit and i posted screenshot showing that i did it,i am pretty annoyed at myself that i didn't take a screenshot with all the quests completed before i deleted the game. The game have less real content than the first poe,it takes longer to finish it because it have a lot of wasted time travelling and loading. The game have 5 real dungeons,poe have more. The ship battles could be done in an hour,they are around 15. Most island exploration is just a battle and a minidungeon. All the mini dungeons are less than the Endless Paths.....maybe all the dungeons in the game are less than Endless Paths. People do forget about the Endless Paths,it wasn't good or thematically good,but it is a big dungeon,it have actual content.

 

[Jenkem]

not sure about the people saying there is not good c&c in deadfire.. it is better than poe1 both in terms of c&c in how quests can be completed, how it impacts dialogue choices, how it impacts other quests, etc.

 

[fantadomat]

Arkemyr's quest is the most damning example of this.

Wait, what? What's wrong with Arkemyr's quest exactly? You have to go through one of the best dungeons in the game to even get that quest, then you get a follow up quest with another two-story dungeon, and a nice set-piece boss-fight with a suprising cameo of PoE1 character. And then you have a follow-up CYOA in Arkermyrs palace that probably has some reactivity baked into it depending on how you do it. All in all, that's a fuckton of content for a side quest.

It is not a dungeon when all you do is run around and loot the containers without any opposition,it is like a empty two storey building form BG2!

 

[MajorMace]

Oh for christ's sake fantadumdum I have no doubt you blazed through everything in 30h dude. It's the claim that it's a legit average hour count that I can only observe as grotesque, if only because I skip most prose and cyoa reading, don't chase ships and bounties and I'm still 15h above that.

Considering the sorry state of the difficulty, the ruthless efficiency of the AI and the ship combat, I have no difficulty imagining how you did it as well.

If people don't believe you despite solid proof, they're just plain deluded and beyond help.

 

[Jenkem]

All the mini dungeons are less than the Endless Paths.....maybe all the dungeons in the game are less than Endless Paths. People do forget about the Endless Paths,it wasn't good or thematically good,but it is a big dungeon,it have actual content.

the dungeons in deadfire are better than most in the original.. endless paths is not interesting.. it being big is pointless if it's not 'thematically good' like you say. the actual content was mediocre loot and tons of trash mobs. the deadfire dungeons while not as large, have varied appearances, fit thematically with the enviornments in which they are located, have interesting encounters, more environmental hazards that affect battles, etc.

 

[MajorMace]

Thing with Arkemyr is that once you're done with the ending cyoa sequence, he just stands there without even a small bit of flavour dialogue to deliver an actual epilogue to his business. It does feel super weird and abrupt. A lot of shit does in this game.

Also, unrelated but the talk between factions before the end is superbad. Don't acknowledge anything that happened between them prior to that. Designing the game in a way that lets the player ignore these before this moment is no excuse. The whole factions interaction just took a serious blow there. Blatant lack of reactivity, even on a superificial level. Sigh.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

It is not a dungeon when all you do is run around and loot the containers without any opposition

Yeah, that's what happens when you play on Story Mode. I had a full party wipe 3 times at that place.

 

[fantadomat]

All the mini dungeons are less than the Endless Paths.....maybe all the dungeons in the game are less than Endless Paths. People do forget about the Endless Paths,it wasn't good or thematically good,but it is a big dungeon,it have actual content.

the dungeons in deadfire are better than most in the original.. endless paths is not interesting.. it being big is pointless if it's not 'thematically good' like you say. the actual content was mediocre loot and tons of trash mobs. the deadfire dungeons while not as large, have varied appearances, fit thematically with the enviornments in which they are located, have interesting encounters, more environmental hazards that affect battles, etc.

I agree with you here,they look good,sadly the easy combat kills it. There are some really good dungeons in the capital island,the undercity is really fun place. I am not blindly shiting on everything deadfire,the game have some really good things. The graphics and the visuality of the levels is really good,also the level design is good too...for the most of them. I may be a little bit overzealous on the game,but that is because i get annoyed at all the poe fanboy retards. The game have a lot of problems,and the biggest one is wasted potential.

 

[fantadomat]

It is not a dungeon when all you do is run around and loot the containers without any opposition

Yeah, that's what happens when you play on Story Mode. I had a full party wipe 3 times at that place.

no you just have to pass a dialogue check with the imp and have a free reign over the mansion. You are pretty bad at the game for someone that founded the game.

 

[Sentinel]

Arkemyr's quest is the most damning example of this.

Wait, what? What's wrong with Arkemyr's quest exactly? You have to go through one of the best dungeons in the game to even get that quest, then you get a follow up quest with another two-story dungeon, and a nice set-piece boss-fight with a suprising cameo of PoE1 character. And then you have a follow-up CYOA in Arkermyrs palace that probably has some reactivity baked into it depending on how you do it. All in all, that's a fuckton of content for a side quest.

It ends with a "hey what do you guys need that for?" and arkemyr replying "*wink* *wink* maybe later watcher", but it never comes up again.

 

[Jenkem]

It ends with a "hey what do you guys need that for?" and arkemyr replying "*wink* *wink* maybe later watcher", but it never comes up again.

it is a lead in to the DLC

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

It is not a dungeon when all you do is run around and loot the containers without any opposition

Yeah, that's what happens when you play on Story Mode. I had a full party wipe 3 times at that place.

no you just have to pass a dialogue check with the imp and have a free rain over the mansion. You are pretty bad at the game for someone that founded the game.

Hey guise, I went with a pacifist quest solution and no one would fight me, this game is stupid.

 

[Sentinel]

It ends with a "hey what do you guys need that for?" and arkemyr replying "*wink* *wink* maybe later watcher", but it never comes up again.

it is a lead in to the DLC

This is what I think too but it's fucking disgusting. They'll make me pay for something that was cut out of the base game and they didn't even cover the cut. It's there for anyone to see.
But I'd honestly be fine with that if that quest was the only instance of this issue in the game, but it isn't. Other quests suffer the same, although not exactly from "wait what happens next" syndrome but from "wait, that's it? what the fuck was the point?" virus. Everything in the game is anti climatic.

 

[MajorMace]

Oh ffs you're right Jenkem. I remember now that one of the announced dlc is about archmagi...
Damn that's low.
Still, it ends super abruptly and should have been better polished frankly.
Rymrgand also teases his beast of winter dlc I assume. But it's much more well done.

 

[fantadomat]

It is not a dungeon when all you do is run around and loot the containers without any opposition

Yeah, that's what happens when you play on Story Mode. I had a full party wipe 3 times at that place.

no you just have to pass a dialogue check with the imp and have a free rain over the mansion. You are pretty bad at the game for someone that founded the game.

Hey guise, I went with a pacifist quest solution and no one would fight me, this game is stupid.

Yeah,i am stupid,said the guy that got wiped by imps on the easiest rpg ever made. Even the steam retards are whining that the game is too easy. Learn to rpg,and stop whining about where you got wiped.

 

[Pizzashoes]

No you're stupid because you're complaining about the very thing you opted in for. Like digging a hole around you and then bitching about having to climb out.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Yeah,i am stupid

Correct.

. Learn to rpg,and stop whining about where you got wiped.

Story mode player telling people to learn how to play.

 

[2house2fly]

Oh ffs you're right Jenkem. I remember now that one of the announced dlc is about archmagi...
Damn that's low.
Still, it ends super abruptly and should have been better polished frankly.
Rymrgand also teases his beast of winter dlc I assume. But it's much more well done.

This is really specious; they can't assume you'll do any given quest before doing the DLC

 

[MajorMace]

Ashen Maw is incredibly dull and short. The fact it ends on such a lame "climax" is the cherry on the cake.
It really is very stupid. I guess I wasn't prepared, even knowing that journos themselves found it bad.
God dammit. Xoti made it worse.
Jesus.
Wow.

I thought it was pretty cool. Great environmental art, and I actually got a chance to use stealth. It is very short, like many of the dungeons so far.

I arrived there and stumbled upon a locked door. There's one other corridor. It leads to an empty room. The key is there. What ?
Design 101 if you're gonna put the key next to the door, just don't lock the damn door to begin with.

It's even weirder because they could have taken the next floor, put it at the end of that corridor and hide the key down there. Would have given some purpose to locking the door in the first place, and awarded a not-that-difficult mechanic check with an actual shortcut, making full use of the no-combat-xp design.

The ancient there is dramatically undertuned as well. It's annoying that this type of creature and fire giants lack so much punch.

Oh ffs you're right Jenkem. I remember now that one of the announced dlc is about archmagi...
Damn that's low.
Still, it ends super abruptly and should have been better polished frankly.
Rymrgand also teases his beast of winter dlc I assume. But it's much more well done.

This is really specious; they can't assume you'll do any given quest before doing the DLC

That's called teasing, yes.

 

[Jezal_k23]

Yeah,i am stupid,said the guy that got wiped by imps on the easiest rpg ever made. Even the steam retards are whining that the game is too easy. Learn to rpg,and stop whining about where you got wiped.

Did you, who played the game on classic (or story mode, I don't recall), just "git gud" somebody who played on POTD?

What's up with everyone who played on classic (or below) difficulty feeling like they have any authority to judge the combat? It's mind boggling.

 

[MajorMace]

let's pull em out and compare already