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KickStarter Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

jungl

Augur
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
1,429
The writing in baldurs gate 1 is very minimalist. Everything is one line or two by a companion or villain. Its mostly the voice actors that carried the game. I have no doubts pathfinder kingmaker writing will be superior as one of the writers is from Russia and even with the cultural and language barrier watches my little pony. My little pony takes a very high iq to enjoy. I watched a few episodes but did not understand the appeal.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,216
Pathfinder: Wrath
Are you questioning muh gamer cred, you philistine, you poseur!?
Surely you understood that I meant the vast majority of fans, the vast majority of press, the vast majority of devs. And I haven't heard of those, no. I'm more of an RPG guy. Have you heard of Underrail, Age of Decadence, Serpent in the Staglands, NEO Scavenger? I'm a patron of the motherfuckin arts.


I was trying to prove a point, I'm not holding it against you that you haven't heard of them, but it does show where your interests lie and maybe that people shouldn't proclaim video games as vapid entertainment for the masses when such other games exist. I'm not saying Tale of Tales' games are very good or saying something (tm), I'm not judging their quality at all, but the general disinterest of the public shows a much larger problem.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
20,304
ArchAngel The legendary status of the BG name keeps those games alive. Vtm:B's quality keeps that game alive. See the difference? I should add, again, that I don't think the BGs are bad games, just that their popularity is underserved, relatively speaking.
You keep going in circles and keep saying nothing of value. Can you decide already what is your stance so we can shit all over it as easily as we are now?
 

ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
Patron
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
28,560
Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I'm not saying Tale of Tales' games are very good or saying something (tm), I'm not judging their quality at all, but the general disinterest of the public shows a much larger problem.
If they're more of walking sim and less of games, maybe the general disinterest of the policy that has an interest in games, is well deserved.
 

Strange Fellow

Peculiar
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Joined
Jun 21, 2018
Messages
4,059
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I was trying to prove a point, I'm not holding it against you that you haven't heard of them, but it does show where your interests lie and maybe that people shouldn't proclaim video games as vapid entertainment for the masses when such other games exist. I'm not saying Tale of Tales' games are very good or saying something (tm), I'm not judging their quality at all, but the general disinterest of the public shows a much larger problem.
Where ever did I say that I thought video games were vapid entertainment? I love video games, I think they're just as valuable as playing cards, solving crosswords, etc. Less valuable, maybe, than reading books or listening to music, because the real life application of video game skill is smaller than that of knowledge of literature and music. But just as fun. The attitude towards video games displayed by most fans and press, however -- that's vapid.
You keep going in circles and keep saying nothing of value. Can you decide already what is your stance so we can shit all over it as easily as we are now?
So you don't see the difference, huh. Let me try to be very clear. I think that the BG series was extremely popular around the turn of the millennium for much the same reasons as Fallout 3 was popular and Dragon Age was popular (psst! I'm saying it wasn't good enough to deserve it!). This popularity means that people are still talking about the games, which leads to people going back and trying them.

Vtm:B did not enjoy much popularity around the time of its release. It has avoided obscurity (relatively speaking) because it is good, and people who appreciate very good games go back and try it.
 
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Mortmal

Arcane
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
9,243
They aren't "good for what they are", they are good. And yes, people will still replay them in 20 years, exactly how they are replaying them now, 20 years after their release. None of these "Renaissance" RPGs will be, they are basically forgotten 2 weeks after they release, let alone in 20 years. Their respective threads are ghost-towns, even on here.
I think those renaissance rpgs will be played and sold again , that if people still own pc, that if heat or the machete rape gang squads have not decimated us and our kids....
Shadowrun, divos, AOD , underail, are titles that will age very well as the focus is not on 3D graphics. Someday when i had my little nephew at home i plugged an old PS2 and started playing saying nothing. The kid went to watch "what are you doing uncle???" , and although he's used to modern graphics and phone games he was greatly interested by those games, much more than his ipad stuff with microtransactions.In a few years I'll sure try classic pc gaming with him.
Those games wont lose their value and they will be avaialble easily for cheap with far supeior gameplay than the AAA shit.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,216
Pathfinder: Wrath
Where ever did I say that I thought video games were vapid entertainment?

I think video games are mass-produced commercial entertainment products, much like modern pop music, and I'm fine with that.


Shadowrun, divos, AOD , underail

AoD and UnderRail, sure, but I don't think anyone is claiming they are part of the "Renaissance" as such. D:OS, no, nobody is talking about either one of the two anymore, let alone in 20 years. Shadowruns, hhhnn, if the cyberpunk genre doesn't pick up, maybe some stragglers will play them as a sort of historic document and from genre starvation, but they are popcorn games, to be consumed and disregarded.
 

Strange Fellow

Peculiar
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Ah. I meant that modern pop music is ALSO a form of mass-market entertainment, I didn't mean that the two were of comparable quality. Poor wording on my part. All it comes down to is that I don't want games to become something more than they already are. Better, sure, but not more cultural.
D:OS, no, nobody is talking about either one of the two anymore, let alone in 20 years.
You're just saying that because you don't think D:OS is that good. Which is precisely what I'm doing with BG.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,216
Pathfinder: Wrath
The difference is that BG is good, and has proven itself to be that from the various positive receptions over the years, while D:OS isn't and hasn't.
 

Strange Fellow

Peculiar
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Our last discussion ended with us disagreeing on the quality of that game, too. Unfortunately, I really don't think that an epic autistic battle of wits to determine whether or not D:OS is a good game would be constructive at all.
I'm game if you are
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
20,304
You keep going in circles and keep saying nothing of value. Can you decide already what is your stance so we can shit all over it as easily as we are now?
So you don't see the difference, huh. Let me try to be very clear. I think that the BG series was extremely popular around the turn of the millennium for much the same reasons as Fallout 3 was popular and Dragon Age was popular (psst! I'm saying it wasn't good enough to deserve it!). This popularity means that people are still talking about the games, which leads to people going back and trying them.

Vtm:B did not enjoy much popularity around the time of its release. It has avoided obscurity (relatively speaking) because it is good, and people who appreciate very good games go back and try it.
Well everyone is allowed to have an opinion even if they are wrong. So please do tell us what games you consider better than BG1 that were released before BG1 and then tell us which games released after BG1 were the level of those games that you considered superior to BG1?
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,216
Pathfinder: Wrath
Yet, it did go away because nobody is talking about it. Neither in the mainstream, nor in its respective thread on one of the most passionate forums on the internet. While we continue to talk about games like Baldur's Gate, the Wizardries, Fallout, the MMs, etc. Metacritic and mainstream "opinions" mean shit, and we should be very well aware of that.
 

Strange Fellow

Peculiar
Patron
Joined
Jun 21, 2018
Messages
4,059
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
You keep going in circles and keep saying nothing of value. Can you decide already what is your stance so we can shit all over it as easily as we are now?
So you don't see the difference, huh. Let me try to be very clear. I think that the BG series was extremely popular around the turn of the millennium for much the same reasons as Fallout 3 was popular and Dragon Age was popular (psst! I'm saying it wasn't good enough to deserve it!). This popularity means that people are still talking about the games, which leads to people going back and trying them.

Vtm:B did not enjoy much popularity around the time of its release. It has avoided obscurity (relatively speaking) because it is good, and people who appreciate very good games go back and try it.
Well everyone is allowed to have an opinion even if they are wrong. So please do tell us what games you consider better than BG1 that were released before BG1 and then tell us which games released after BG1 were the level of those games that you considered superior to BG1?
There are a lot. As for older than BG, Pool of Radiance is the perfect example. Better encounter design, better combat, better maps, better areas. That's the gist of it. I'd mention writing if I thought either had anything worth writing home about.

Then there's after, from which I'd hold up Wizardry 8. Better everything, period.
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
37,292
Location
Bulgaria
Strange Fellow your theory could have been right if we were talking about America and its people. People that love rpgs and don't really care about popularity or sales. When i sit down and spend 40 hours replaying some old rpg i don't go and think "Oh god that game was really popular 20 years go,look at me how hip i am." RPG fans are pretty international thing if you don't know,for example americans are maybe 20% of codexers and a much less among active posters. This means that most of the posters here don't have much of nostalgic view on such games or even knew back then that the game is popular. When i first played MM6(it was a very strange Russian version with a few different levels :) ) or BG2 it was from a cracked discs 15 years ago in my room with a bunch of drunken friends,and i fell in love with the games,and even ended up learning english because of them. It had nothing to do with popularity or fame,for me they were just a bunch of random cds that i came by. Many of the people here came by in a similar ways. I do play RPGs because i enjoy them,and if you enjoy something then why not repeat it 20 years later or even 40? Why do you play them?
 

Strange Fellow

Peculiar
Patron
Joined
Jun 21, 2018
Messages
4,059
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Yet, it did go away because nobody is talking about it. Neither in the mainstream, nor in its respective thread on one of the most passionate forums on the internet. While we continue to talk about games like Baldur's Gate, the Wizardries, Fallout, the MMs, etc. Metacritic and mainstream "opinions" mean shit, and we should be very well aware of that.
If you don't think there are more more people playing and talking about D:OS 2 than Might and Magic or Wizardry then you're off your rocker.
When i first i played MM6(it was a very strange Russian version with a few different levels :) ) or BG2 it was from a cracked discs 15 years ago in my room with a bunch of drunken friends,and i fell in love with the games,and even ended up learning english because of them.
And there's a reason why those were discs of Baldur's Gate and MM6 instead of, say, Dark Heart of Uukrul, which I don't think I've seen mentioned outside this forum. But even so, I think popularity was more indicative of quality back then. In fact, I think Baldur's Gate was the point at which popularity became a completely meaningless factor for my purchasing habits.

And I play almost exclusively older games, whether it's stuff I know I like, or promising games I've missed out on.
 
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Self-Ejected

Safav Hamon

Self-Ejected
Village Idiot The Real Fanboy
Joined
May 15, 2018
Messages
2,141
I've introduced friends to the infinity engine games and they all disliked them (except one, but he still ended up quitting). They enjoyed other older games, but not the Infinity Engine games.

I'm firmly convinced the infinity engine games...

  • Were always overrated

  • Even moreso today

  • The only people who still get massive enjoyment out of them are nolstalgia fags

If you want to prove me wrong, find a modern gamer to stick one of them out for at least 20 hours. I bet they can't do it.
 
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Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,216
Pathfinder: Wrath
If you don't think there are more more people playing and talking about D:OS 2 than Might and Magic or Wizardry then you're off your rocker.

And there are more people talking about and watching the Current Hollywood Blockbuster (tm) than Apocalypse Now f.e., your point? I'm not sure a lot of people are talking about D:OS, however, they certainly aren't on here.
 

Strange Fellow

Peculiar
Patron
Joined
Jun 21, 2018
Messages
4,059
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
If you don't think there are more more people playing and talking about D:OS 2 than Might and Magic or Wizardry then you're off your rocker.

And there are more people talking about and watching the Current Hollywood Blockbuster (tm) than Apocalypse Now f.e., your point? I'm not sure a lot of people are talking about D:OS, however, they certainly aren't on here.
My point is that people are talking about it. You said people aren't talking about it. That's my point. It doesn't prove anything one way or the other, just like people talking about BG doesn't prove anything. And really, the Baldur's Gate thread isn't exactly booming either.
 
Self-Ejected

Safav Hamon

Self-Ejected
Village Idiot The Real Fanboy
Joined
May 15, 2018
Messages
2,141
I'm not trying to bait anyone. This community needs a reality check.

The infinity engine games are overhyped. Most people wouldn't enjoy them anymore, and it's for more reason than because they're old.
 

Strange Fellow

Peculiar
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Dunno, Reddit, maybe? It is almost year old already. People are certainly still playing it, it's 8th on Steam's top seller list. But keep in mind that I don't like D:OS 2, so for it to be forgotten would be perfectly justfied in my opinion.
 
Self-Ejected

Lilura

RPG Codex Dragon Lady
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
Messages
5,274
And really, the Baldur's Gate thread isn't exactly booming either.

It's a 20 year old game. Just by covering BG, my blog is catching up to crpgaddict who covers an entire era, has been blogging eight years longer than I have, and has mainstream recognition.

BG is huge for its age, like I said before. It's not going away anytime soon, and for good reason. You need to deal with that.
 

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