Patch 1.05 notes

[Irenaeus]

I had good use of Durance, why does priest "really sucks"?

 

[Eyestabber]

Have you TRIED playing the game without a Wizard? Try it. You will never miss the "excellent" class ever again. I think people are too emotionally invested on the Wizard class to realize how irrelevant it actually is. I agree with the Priest assessment, however. Scrolls of defense, valor and whatnot provide BETTER versions of pretty much every single one of their buffs, the Druid has better heals and the ONE THING that would justify the priest class, RESSURECTION, can be done via cheap scrolls that are MUCH better than their Priest counterpart. OH and the nail on the coffin: priests are squishy.

I have TCS solo'd a wizard, played wizard in a party, played wizard not in a party. No single class is 'missed' if the party you have is a good one. However, take the wizard, or the ranger, who were both slated early on when people had a quick look and thought they sucked - I, and others, have made them killing machines. That's what matters. No single class should be indispensable, every class should be viable of becoming powerful. As I say, the only class that really sucks is the Priest (since Paladin at least has a 'kit' option that is excellent, and given all the useless kits in BG2..)

Triple Crown Solo as a Wizard!? Okay then...will give the class another shot, since I've no reason to doubt you. Mind sharing your build?

 

[Orma]

Well, I don't understand why people think Eder is a particularly good tank (that is, actually good, not good because of the lack of difficulty). Even Pallegina probably makes for a better one.

He has better stats. He is a fighter so he gets the most health. Due to fighter specific abilities he can achieve higher defense. He can get skills like Unbroken and Unbending. You get him before the auto-leveling spoils his build.

Paladins have better defenses than fighters and they have equal health. Moreover, paladins are weaker offensively than fighters, which means making them a tank means sacrificing less offensive power. Pallegina has a racial ability that grants her increases defense against certain attacks (ranged attacks among them, I believe) and her PER and RES (stats that increase deflection) are almost the same as Eder's.

I'm guessing the bug that inflated Eder's defenses to absurd heights is what made people think he made for a great tank (well that, and the game's lack of overall difficulty).

Eder isn't a good tank, but he is enough even for POTD Ironman.

 

[Orma]

Btw, what? Priest is the only class that sucks?

They are much better than wizards, thats for sure

 

[Tigranes]

That was 1.05 beta. Arcane Veil buff is more than enough to make up for nerfs to FoF and Adragan - which were overpowered anyway. I'm in my office, but going from memory:

Moon Godlike (of course), 18 INT, ~16 Might/Dex/Res, ~6 Con/Per.
Critical picks: Arcane Veil, Hardened Veil, Weapon and Shield Style, Deep Pockets
Optional picks: Fast Runner, One-Handed, Superior Deflection, and then whatever you want.

What really matters is the equipment and playstyle rather than the basic build.
Upgraded Arcane Veil = +75 Deflection for 14 seconds (with 18 INT) twice per rest. Combine with the 3rd level mirror image spells for +25, and later, the 5th level defensive spells for +20 to all defenses.
This means even in Act 1 you have a 'get out of jail card'; e.g. you're luring the smith bandits to trolls and you get engaged, AV gives you a strong chance of escaping alive and getting them to fight each other.
Even in endgame, when you stack the above 3 abilities at level 12, you're looking at +150 Deflection and +100 defense saves for a limited time - valuable time that can be used to kill people.

Crucial equipment: Gaun's Flail early on (doesn't really matter what weapon at the end); Sura's Plate shield for retaliation; Shod-in-Faith boots & Animancer's boots. Figurines, of course; the rotfinger gloves.
And then obvious choices for a solo wizard in the thick of things, like heavy armour, +10 Deflection ring, broad belt of power.
Basically, Act 1 is about avoiding tough fights until you raise money for the figurine, and then also using plate armour protection & gaun's flail regeneration, combined with the deflection bonuses. This is enough for most Act 1 fights, supported by the Animat.
When you grab the retaliation shield in Cilaban Rilag and buy Shod-in-Faith for consecrated ground, this gives you the necessary upgrade in survivability against Act 2 enemies.

Essential Phantom and Animancer's Boots (Jolting Touch) and Rotfinger Gloves = your phantom can also cast those abilities.
That means against something like the Sky Dragon, because at high levels you might have 3 or 4 castings of level 4 spells, you're looking at a dozen castings of jolting touch. It can crit normally for ~80 damage.
Obviously accuracy potions and spells are important. If you do use Adragan, then War Paint + Adragan + Essential Phantom + Both of you jolting touch = 234 damage crits if you're lucky, even if you're not it's a way to bring the Sky dragon or a Thaos automaton down.
Other useful spells include Concelhaut's drain (level 2) early on; Fan of flames (obviously); Martial Power (level 6) for a Tenser's Transformation style thing.

 

[Tigranes]

Btw, what? Priest is the only class that sucks?

They are much better than wizards, thats for sure

Would be glad to learn how they can rock, I was going to try them soon to see what I could make of them.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

The A.I. seems to make the enemies just cluster around the character at the front, regardless of their engagement slots.

I never tried to tank with a non-fighter without engagement slots, so I can't comment but wouldn't surprise me if true, pretty lame though.

Nope, just testing if you can make a character immune to mind control.

Then it is in practical terms irrelevant to tanking. When you come with a party they will not target the tank but the party member with the least defense. I would see merit in the build if you could make yourself immune and thus could defeat the encounter, if you need a party for that... well, it's nice to be immune to charm, but since the enemies do not target the tank kinda pointless.

How strong are the bonuses from disposition?

ps: while foregoing a zealous aura and taking cautious attack instead caught me by surprise, I forgot vigorous defense, +15 per encounter, so fighter still wins

 

[DeepOcean]

Dual wielding stilletos wizard with high dexterity and that alacrity spell means really good damage for a melee mage. Mage can make a really good melee DPS that doesn't die from an enemy looking at him like the barbarian and rogue, spell like mirror image and Llengrath Displacement something were already good and became better now, wizards can get really good offense and decent defense at the same time what is harder to do with other melee DPS. They can't be a really overpowered tank like a fighter but they are more flexible, being able to spam fleet feet at higher level mean a wizard can out run pretty much anything. All this make it a pretty good class to solo PotD (assuming someone has the patience and epic mental resistance to not die of boredom for the huge deflection and life of mobs on PotD).

 

[prodigydancer]

Have you TRIED playing the game without a Wizard? Try it. You will never miss the "excellent" class ever again. I think people are too emotionally invested on the Wizard class to realize how irrelevant it actually is.

You can solo PotD with almost any class if you're so inclined and don't mind making a cheesy build and abusing poor predictable AI. From this point of view any class is irrelevant. But, if nothing else, Wizard is more interesting to play than any non-caster.

 

[Shevek]

Man, the character system in this game is great - so, so much better than the IE games. I hope they had even more talents and abilities in the xpac.

 

[Minttunator]

I have to admit I'm not a fan of constant nerfs in a single-player game (this isn't an MMO and I don't think it should be treated as such), but whatever - good thing I managed to finish my PotD playthrough before the 1.05 nerfbat hit.

 

[The Bishop]

I don't know about solo run, but in a party I think priest is very potent class. Things that go for them:

- The ability to stack some very powerful buffs on entire party.
Usually buffs don't stack if they modify the same value. However buffs that affect the same value through different means do stack. Priest's spells are layout in a way that allows some extreme stacking. For example Crowns of the Faithful + Shields for the Faithful + Circle of Protection = +76 Deflection. Since Crowns of the Faithful buffs stats (+25 res + 6 per), Circle of Protection modifies all defenses at once (+15 to all), it stacks with direct +25 def from Shields for the Faithful for an impressive number.

Eldritch aim is a pretty nice spell, but how about adding +20 accuracy on top of it that also applies to the rest of the party? Devotions for the Faithful will stack because it modifies ranged and melee accuracy separately. Crowns of the Faithful + Circle of Protection + Holy Meditation + Prayer Against Treachery is +142 to will against charm and domination. Can you say hard counter?

- Very powerful attack spells in form of "seals".
If you didn't notice seals are treated as traps by the game. So even though you can set them in a middle of the fight as a traditional AOE, their accuracy isn't affected by you wearing a shield, for high level seals there is an accuracy bonus, and finally seals accuracy also affected by your mechanics skill (+3 for each level). You can easily have 100+ or even 110+ accuracy on seals and that's without any buffs to your personal accuracy, which makes them hit and crit very reliably even on PotD.

- Priests can match warriors in accuracy with select weapons.
With a buff like Holy Power and constant heal like Consecrated Ground they're not afraid to go into close combat and do decent damage without instantly dying. And they will buff/heal everyone around them too.

Overall and as far as party is involved priests are pretty damn powerful.

 

[LizardWizard]

SCS is mainly an AI mod, not an attempt to bring, say, the wizard class back in line with the others. Surely you can understand the difference.

SCS is chock full of balance changes.

 

[Rostere]

Priests are very much a supportive class though. I don't see much point in playing a solo priest (compared to other classes).

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

SCS is chock full of balance changes.

Straight from the SCS readme:

SCS is almost pure AI. SCS mucks around rather little with the core powers of creatures, and hardly at all with their abilities, resistances, saving throws and the like. Its main focus is on getting creatures to do as much as they possibly can with their existing abilities. In particular, its targeting is very careful - hopefully you'll almost never see a mage do something stupid like cast repeated spells at someone immune to that spell.

Feel free to point out the class balance changes brought about by SCS, shouldn't be hard, since SCS is "chock full" of them.

 

[LizardWizard]

Feel free to point out the class balance changes brought about by SCS, shouldn't be hard, since SCS is "chock full" of them.

'Reduce the power of Inquisitors' Dispel Magic'

A bigger nerf than anything the Cipher saw tbh.

Anyways, it's just weird how people are getting emotionally attached to classes. Devs actually supporting their game with balance is a good thing compared to the alternative. If you're so butthurt over your favorite broken shit getting toned you can always mod it out, roll patch back or type iroll20s and continue playing goku/mage/thief.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

'Reduce the power of Inquisitors' Dispel Magic'

A bigger nerf than anything the Cipher saw tbh.

"chock full"
followed out of the blue by a retarded strawman about me wanting to cheat or play goku/mage/thief

I corrected your factually wrong statement about SCS being an effort to balance the game, you keep pulling bullshit straight out of your ass.

 

[Spectacle]

Is there any info on when this patch will be done?

 

[One-and-a-half-Ivan]

Is there any info on when this patch will be done?

Either today or tomorrow probably.
http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/79134-change-in-steam-depots/#entry1685580

 

[Somberlain]

The patch is out now

 

[Orma]

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

omg so much nerf

 

[Eyestabber]

Eh, a melee-tanky-dps might benefit from this. Coat of Ill Payment was better for a pure tank anyway. Having frenzy as a non-barbarian? Yeah, pretty sure someone will figure out an OP build around this pretty soon.

EDIT: I wonder if they updated the bridge party AI after this. The big mace guy from "The Forgotten" quest FRENZYING while faceraping your party is a really scary thought...

 

[Somberlain]

Yeah, pretty sure someone will figure out an OP build around this pretty soon.

If you do, don't tell Josh. Otherwise it's another nerf patch incoming

 

[Eyestabber]

Yeah, pretty sure someone will figure out an OP build around this pretty soon.

If you do, don't tell Josh. Otherwise it's another nerf patch incoming

SHIT, I was going to make another EDIT saying "and when they do, the nerfbat will hit again. Harder this time", but you beat me to it.

I'm pretty sure "Josh" has nightmares about the dreaded BG 2 Kensai-Mage.