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One of the shittiest things about Skyrim

SimTrY

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May 19, 2023
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Every TES game has removed the best parts of it's predecessors to appeal to the masses.

I bet this, in so many words, is practically enshrined at Beth HQ.
This is true. everytime i see todd talk about streamlining stuff for a game i inch closer to wanting to finally kill my self. thats a big thing for todd and post MW bethesda it seems. streamlining should be more usefull menu navigation stuff, not dumbing down game systems present in previous games.
 

Vic

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Every TES game has removed the best parts of it's predecessors to appeal to the masses.

I bet this, in so many words, is practically enshrined at Beth HQ.
This is true. everytime i see todd talk about streamlining stuff for a game i inch closer to wanting to finally kill my self. thats a big thing for todd and post MW bethesda it seems. streamlining should be more usefull menu navigation stuff, not dumbing down game systems present in previous games.
what system from Morrowind > Oblivion > Skyrim was not improved? Apart from the unique lore Skyrim is a superior version of Morrowind and certainly Oblivion.
 

RepHope

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Every TES game has removed the best parts of it's predecessors to appeal to the masses.

I bet this, in so many words, is practically enshrined at Beth HQ.
This is true. everytime i see todd talk about streamlining stuff for a game i inch closer to wanting to finally kill my self. thats a big thing for todd and post MW bethesda it seems. streamlining should be more usefull menu navigation stuff, not dumbing down game systems present in previous games.
what system from Morrowind > Oblivion > Skyrim was not improved? Apart from the unique lore Skyrim is a superior version of Morrowind and certainly Oblivion.
Magic. Went from being useful in a variety of applications to “spam fire/ice/lightning”.
 

SimTrY

Literate
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41
Every TES game has removed the best parts of it's predecessors to appeal to the masses.

I bet this, in so many words, is practically enshrined at Beth HQ.
This is true. everytime i see todd talk about streamlining stuff for a game i inch closer to wanting to finally kill my self. thats a big thing for todd and post MW bethesda it seems. streamlining should be more usefull menu navigation stuff, not dumbing down game systems present in previous games.
what system from Morrowind > Oblivion > Skyrim was not improved? Apart from the unique lore Skyrim is a superior version of Morrowind and certainly Oblivion.
for me, i noticed there's a few things that skyrim culled from the game:
1. the magic, enchanting, and alchemy system for one was completely aborted from the series. yes its broken, but unless you're a no fun allowed retard then i don't see how you'd wan't that gone from the subsequent games.
2.the factions and their quests, in morrowind i feel the faction quests are better written and designed (still angry about the blades questline in skyrim that makes absolutely no sense), you don't progress as fast in the factions you join as you do in skyrim so it feels like you really earned the title of being grandmaster of a faction, because you put in the work.
3. the fast travel system, morrowind's feel more grounded with silt striders, boats, and tthe various mages guild teleports, it adds a certain level of immersion and authenticity that i appriciate.
4. Armor slots, In morrowind you get different slots for different types of armor, while in skyrim you can't really mix and mach due to there being less slots for armor and clothes.
5. Weapon variation, from melee weapons like spears and halberds to more unique weapons like ninja stars and throwing knives
 

Vic

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for me, i noticed there's a few things that skyrim culled from the game:
1. the magic, enchanting, and alchemy system for one was completely aborted from the series. yes its broken, but unless you're a no fun allowed retard then i don't see how you'd wan't that gone from the subsequent games.
Alchemy and enchanting is still broken in Skyrim and can be abused to create OP items.

2.the factions and their quests, in morrowind i feel the faction quests are better written and designed (still angry about the blades questline in skyrim that makes absolutely no sense), you don't progress as fast in the factions you join as you do in skyrim so it feels like you really earned the title of being grandmaster of a faction, because you put in the work.
That's subjective. Oblivion DB and Skyrim TG dwarf any faction quest in Morrowind.
3. the fast travel system, morrowind's feel more grounded with silt striders, boats, and tthe various mages guild teleports, it adds a certain level of immersion and authenticity that i appriciate.
You have horse carts in Skyrim, and probably other means of transportation too that I can't recall now. You don't have to use fast travel if you don't like it, but it saves a lot of wasted time. Morrowind's Mark/Recall + Siltstrider/Boat run is just a more tedious version of Skyrim's fast travel. Achieves the same result but costs more clicks.
4. Armor slots, In morrowind you get different slots for different types of armor, while in skyrim you can't really mix and mach due to there being less slots for armor and clothes.
That declutters the inventory. Do you really need R/L gauntlet in your inventory?
5. Weapon variation, from melee weapons like spears and halberds to more unique weapons like ninja stars and throwing knives
That's true but Skyrim has better combat all around and dual wielding.

Morrowind was a wonky mess that got improved upon with each iteration of the series. It's still shit tho.
 

SimTrY

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That's subjective. Oblivion DB and Skyrim TG dwarf any faction quest in Morrowind.
i'll give you oblivion DB quest but thats aboutt the only good thing that game had. TG for skyrim is an odd pick because i remember that quest being particularly shitty because you literally do eeverytthing except being a thief. hell atleast the DB in skyrim had Cicero which was a fun character. and the twist being a guy helbent on destroying the guild while taking syphoning money from the guild is just what ever. the main faction quest is just and adventure. and the side faction quests are ass.
Alchemy and enchanting is still broken in Skyrim and can be abused to create OP items.
a lot of effects are missing tho. its an overall downgrade.
You have horse carts in Skyrim, and probably other means of transportation too that I can't recall now. You don't have to use fast travel if you don't like it, but it saves a lot of wasted time. Morrowind's Mark/Recall + Siltstrider/Boat run is just a more tedious version of Skyrim's fast travel. Achieves the same result but costs more clicks.
might as well not paly the game if you're gonna fast travel everywhere. atleast morrowindd provides context via spells and transportation. you gotta worrk more to fast travel. didn't put down a mark spell? well good job retard either walk back to quest giver, or the nearest tranportation option, or use your MAGIC SPELLS that allow you to either gain temporary run speeed boost, make you gainn the ability to cover tremendous distances in one jump, or just fly with the use of the levetation spell. Fast travel is just lazy and unimaginative.
That declutters the inventory. Do you really need R/L gauntlet in your inventory?
skyrim's inventory system is not that good either, i would say that its a downgrade from morrowind. also yeah i need R/L gauntlets in my inventory because it gives me the chance to customize the look of my ingamee character, so that you know i can ROLE PLAY in an RPG.
That's true but Skyrim has better combat all around and dual wielding.
combat animations are good, i'll give you that. while the combat for morrowind is notorious for being "shitty", i still like it because it makes you feel like you as a player have gotten stronger and more adept at handling enemies. since skyrim scales eenemis tto your level, after a while they kinda become damage sponges. granted its not as bad as in oblivion but its still apparent. Funposter can elaborate more on this since i really don't know the inner workings of the game but from playing it you can definitely feel it.
 

Vic

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I still think people who think Elder Scrolls got worse or “dumbed down” with each release are just being nostalgic. Morrowind is pretty “dumb” itself by how goofy and wonky the combat and crafting and economy is. Creeper just breaks the whole game, also lol at Mudcrub vendor.

Skyrim is more streamlined in the sense that they cut most of that crap out. It’s more polished and mature (manure? polished turd?) but I feel like by cutting that shit (turd!!) out they also cut part of the heart of the series. Skyrim is just so sterile and lifeless… Still the superior game mechanically tho.
 

SimTrY

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I still think people who think Elder Scrolls got worse or “dumbed down” with each release are just being nostalgic. Morrowind is pretty “dumb” itself by how goofy and wonky the combat and crafting and economy is. Creeper just breaks the whole game, also lol at Mudcrub vendor.

Skyrim is more streamlined in the sense that they cut most of that crap out. It’s more polished and mature (manure? polished turd?) but I feel like by cutting that shit (turd!!) out they also cut part of the heart of the series. Skyrim is just so sterile and lifeless… Still the superior game mechanically tho.
not really, i literally just finished playing morrowind a week ago, and i've been playing skyrim for far longer than that. over the course of 35+ hours i have tos ay its my favorite tes game. creeper and mudcrab really does break the game but unless you havee prior knowledge of it you'd really have a hard time figuring out how to exploit it. and mudcrab vendor can be easily missed/killed. depending on what you mean mechanically (if by better combat feeddback, better animations) i'd say sure, but i feel they really dumbed ddown the quests, and how to complete the quests. morrowind simply offers more freedom. well at least i feel so.
 

Butter

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Morrowind combat is unironically better than Skyrim combat. Anyone who says Skyrim is better because "muh dice rolls" has no business talking. Morrowind doesn't have to throw damage sponges at you because of those dice rolls, and it creates a visible sense of progression as your skills improve. It also has a much more robust magic system, and even its FATIGUE system works better, encouraging you to use selective power attacks instead of mindlessly spamming left-clicks. Morrowind has more weapon types too.
 

SimTrY

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Morrowind combat is unironically better than Skyrim combat. Anyone who says Skyrim is better because "muh dice rolls" has no business talking. Morrowind doesn't have to throw damage sponges at you because of those dice rolls, and it creates a visible sense of progression as your skills improve. It also has a much more robust magic system, and even its FATIGUE system works better, encouraging you to use selective power attacks instead of mindlessly spamming left-clicks. Morrowind has more weapon types too.
it could've telegraphed misssed hits to the player better though. maybe by sound cues like how daggerfall does it. but i pretty much aggree with what you're saying.
 

Popiel

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Morrowind doesn't have to throw damage sponges at you because of those dice rolls,
Funny how that works mate. Yes, it doesn't have to - but it does. When Morrowind tries to execute increase in difficulty - as in its expansions primarily - then it does so by making enemies' health bars buffier. Goblins don't employ no nasty tactics or anything else, they just have more HP. So, while in principle you're right, in practice this potential was left untapped.
 

Butter

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Morrowind doesn't have to throw damage sponges at you because of those dice rolls,
Funny how that works mate. Yes, it doesn't have to - but it does. When Morrowind tries to execute increase in difficulty - as in its expansions primarily - then it does so by making enemies' health bars buffier. Goblins don't employ no nasty tactics or anything else, they just have more HP. So, while in principle you're right, in practice this potential was left untapped.
Yeah, the expansions are the worst part of Morrowind. You shouldn't play them. The base game doesn't pull that shit.
 

Popiel

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Morrowind doesn't have to throw damage sponges at you because of those dice rolls,
Funny how that works mate. Yes, it doesn't have to - but it does. When Morrowind tries to execute increase in difficulty - as in its expansions primarily - then it does so by making enemies' health bars buffier. Goblins don't employ no nasty tactics or anything else, they just have more HP. So, while in principle you're right, in practice this potential was left untapped.
Yeah, the expansions are the worst part of Morrowind. You shouldn't play them. The base game doesn't pull that shit.
I would argue the same applies to the vanilla, its just that the expansions are much better example because of how they escalate this. You mean to say that the game tries to vary up harder difficulties in ways other than buffing HP bars? There is little substantial difference between low level bandits and Golden Saints aside from their HP and how hard they hit.
 

SimTrY

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Morrowind doesn't have to throw damage sponges at you because of those dice rolls,
Funny how that works mate. Yes, it doesn't have to - but it does. When Morrowind tries to execute increase in difficulty - as in its expansions primarily - then it does so by making enemies' health bars buffier. Goblins don't employ no nasty tactics or anything else, they just have more HP. So, while in principle you're right, in practice this potential was left untapped.
in the case of tribunal i think that has more to do with the fact that they designed the dlc as end game content., while it should have been designed ass though the game shipped with it. then even some of the most basic dlc enemies have bigger hp than draemora lords i think. the dlc rebalance mod fixes this issue.
 

Butter

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Morrowind doesn't have to throw damage sponges at you because of those dice rolls,
Funny how that works mate. Yes, it doesn't have to - but it does. When Morrowind tries to execute increase in difficulty - as in its expansions primarily - then it does so by making enemies' health bars buffier. Goblins don't employ no nasty tactics or anything else, they just have more HP. So, while in principle you're right, in practice this potential was left untapped.
Yeah, the expansions are the worst part of Morrowind. You shouldn't play them. The base game doesn't pull that shit.
I would argue the same applies to the vanilla, its just that the expansions are much better example because of how they escalate this. You mean to say that the game tries to vary up harder difficulties in ways other than buffing HP bars? There is little substantial difference between low level bandits and Golden Saints aside from their HP and how hard they hit.
You're moving the goalposts. We were talking about damage sponges, not whether enemy tactics change as a form of difficulty. Golden Saints aren't damage sponges, even though they have more health than regular bandits, because your damage increases by the time you fight them.
 

Kalon

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Morrowind combat is unironically better than Skyrim combat. Anyone who says Skyrim is better because "muh dice rolls" has no business talking. Morrowind doesn't have to throw damage sponges at you because of those dice rolls, and it creates a visible sense of progression as your skills improve. It also has a much more robust magic system, and even its FATIGUE system works better, encouraging you to use selective power attacks instead of mindlessly spamming left-clicks. Morrowind has more weapon types too.

As much as I love Morrowind...no, but in a way, yes.
No because Morrowind's combat is simply not something enjoyable. Combat in Morrowind is something that you just want to get over with as quickly as possible.
Yes because it does indeed creates a sense of progression from the initial frustration. And this is where the enjoyment comes from, not the actual combat.
 

thesecret1

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Combat in Morrowind is something that you just want to get over with as quickly as possible.
And Skyrim's isn't?! Like holy shit, combat is one of the worst aspects of Skyrim. Even with extensive combat overhauls modded in, that shit still manages to be only borderline tolerable.
 

Late Bloomer

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might as well not paly the game if you're gonna fast travel everywhere

I wonder why more people don't think that too. So many people play as if the entire point of the game is to finish it as quickly as possible. Only to play the next release and do the same thing. Its a console mindset.
 

Ravielsk

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This is true. everytime i see todd talk about streamlining stuff for a game i inch closer to wanting to finally kill my self. thats a big thing for todd and post MW bethesda it seems. streamlining should be more usefull menu navigation stuff, not dumbing down game systems present in previous games.
Its probably the main reason why Bethesda stopped releasing "making of" documentaries. After Oblivion they made it clear that they are clowns with only superficial understanding of the genre they are living off of. Yes, living off of because if they were to go all in on action games or FPS they would be bankrupt after a game or two if FO76 and Skyrim are any indication of the level of skill in those areas.

I remember one interview with Julian Jensen(the father of Arena and Daggerfall) where he recalls a moment where he needed to remind Todd that his quest is really nice and all but at the end of the day boils down to walking 5 minutes to a tree and back. Which normally would be a funny little story but now its obvious it was an omen to how bad it would get.
 

JarlFrank

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Every TES game has removed the best parts of it's predecessors to appeal to the masses.

I bet this, in so many words, is practically enshrined at Beth HQ.
This is true. everytime i see todd talk about streamlining stuff for a game i inch closer to wanting to finally kill my self. thats a big thing for todd and post MW bethesda it seems. streamlining should be more usefull menu navigation stuff, not dumbing down game systems present in previous games.
what system from Morrowind > Oblivion > Skyrim was not improved? Apart from the unique lore Skyrim is a superior version of Morrowind and certainly Oblivion.
Count equipment slots between Morrowind and Skyrim, then come back to me.
 

NecroLord

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The magic in Skyrim is absolutely dogshit. Honestly, I can't think of a game with a more dumb and lame magic system and magic in general.
The inventory is another major offender.
Gotta appeal to the console gaymers, right?
 

Tyranicon

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The magic in Skyrim is absolutely dogshit. Honestly, I can't think of a game with a more dumb and lame magic system and magic in general.
The inventory is another major offender.
Gotta appeal to the console gaymers, right?

I remember being really annoyed about how vanilla spell damage worked and then just shrugged and looked for a mod.

The unfortunate reality is the modern Betheseda games are made with a "mods will fix it" mentality.
 
Last edited:

EvilWolf

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Every TES game has removed the best parts of it's predecessors to appeal to the masses.

I bet this, in so many words, is practically enshrined at Beth HQ.
This is true. everytime i see todd talk about streamlining stuff for a game i inch closer to wanting to finally kill my self. thats a big thing for todd and post MW bethesda it seems. streamlining should be more usefull menu navigation stuff, not dumbing down game systems present in previous games.
what system from Morrowind > Oblivion > Skyrim was not improved? Apart from the unique lore Skyrim is a superior version of Morrowind and certainly Oblivion.
I would post the whole Morrowind>Oblivion>Skyrim Costanza meme, but SimTrY pretty much covered most of the points.
 

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