NWN2: Storm of Zehir at E3

[Jasede]

Why shouldn't they make this? I'm glad the true RPG fans get something too, the Wizardry and Might and Magic players. Seems only fair we get something after the Ultima IV and Torment fans got their share.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

'True' RPGs?

MotB is more of an RPG than any of the Wizardry/Might and Magic games.

 

[themadhatter114]

I think it looks awesome. The map looks way more awesome than I expected. When they compared it to Fallout before, I expected that it would actually be just a 2D map that your avatar slides across. That would've been perfectly fine with me, but this look exceptionally kickass.

I loved MotB, and I certainly hope there are interesting characters in this, but I think being able to actually utilize balanced party skills, and have a bigger stake in the economy and all the promised features sound excellent so far.

A story as compelling as that of MotB would be nice, but this isn't 'epic' like MotB and plenty of choices and consequences with less of an 'epic' focus is fine by me.

 

[Lumpy]

RPGs, for Jasede, are walking around in a dungeon and killing things.

 

[Shoelip]

No CRPG is a real RPG.

 

[Anthony Davis]

*snip*
KotOR2 wasn't successful.
*snip*

This is absolutely not true. The game sold over 1.5 million copies.

Heck, I think we might even be close to 1.75 or 2 million by now.

Seriously? In that case what was the point in the extremely generic boring NWN2 OC?

KotOR 2 was written by MCA. NWN2 was written by some guy who went on to work on Bioware.

While I personally would not use the word boring to describe the OC, this is the correct answer regarding the story work behind these particular games.

 

[Anthony Davis]

Why are they making this? Another character-focused RPG like MotB would be better.

Sometimes you feel like Sushi, sometimes you feel like Pizza, do you know what I mean?

We want this expansion to capture the 'old school' feeling of exploring and adventuring, which I think the party creation, overland map, and party conversation system helps accomplish.

 

[Warden]

Can you maybe answer my two questions? Or at least the 1st one.

 

[MetalCraze]

I like what Obsidian guy says.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

Why are they making this? Another character-focused RPG like MotB would be better.

Sometimes you feel like Sushi, sometimes you feel like Pizza, do you know what I mean?

We want this expansion to capture the 'old school' feeling of exploring and adventuring, which I think the party creation, overland map, and party conversation system helps accomplish.

So this won't be a hack/slash like the IWD games, right? Or tedious dungeon crawling? There will still be elements of roleplaying involved, I hope.

 

[themadhatter114]

Why are they making this? Another character-focused RPG like MotB would be better.

Sometimes you feel like Sushi, sometimes you feel like Pizza, do you know what I mean?

We want this expansion to capture the 'old school' feeling of exploring and adventuring, which I think the party creation, overland map, and party conversation system helps accomplish.

So this won't be a hack/slash like the IWD games, right? Or tedious dungeon crawling? There will still be elements of roleplaying involved, I hope.

When asked on the NWN2 forums, it was claimed that it will be a little bit Icewind Dale, a little bit Baldur's Gate, and a little bit mystary.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

Fuck. It'll be the first Obsidian game I won't buy, then.

 

[Anthony Davis]

Fuck. It'll be the first Obsidian game I won't buy, then.

Certainly no one would fault you for waiting for reviews from a trusted source.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

Fuck. It'll be the first Obsidian game I won't buy, then.

Certainly no one would fault you for waiting for reviews from a trusted source.

True, but in the past I've always had an Obsidian game pre-ordered. I've bought Obsidian games without reading reviews, I even bought the collector's edition of NWN2. This time, I'll wait until the reviews come out before I make my decision, and even then, if it really is just a BG/IWD-style dungeon crawl/hack slash, I'll spend my money elsewhere.

 

[ricolikesrice]

...

i hope its a bit like realms of arkania too , in my head it sounded that way ^^

personally i really prefer the "create your own party" over "single dude meets wandering cliches hooking up to form a party" (baldurs gate, nwn2 etc.) ... though of course thankfully someone (PS:T / MOTB) sometimes makes at least interesting party members.

of course i still hope it s more than just an explorer / dungeon hack (i.e. you have choices and consequences ) but imho its better to have CnC with the world/interesting NPCs/factions outside your party than in typically bioware/obsidian fashion having 90% of CnC revolve around how you threat those assholes travelling around with you.

btw. anthony anything done in terms of combat animations for NX2 ? not that its my biggest concern but better looking combat would be great. or does anyone know if a modder tackled that NWN2 specific issue yet ( melee combat looking shittier than NWN1 because its soo static ... ) ?

 

[Texas Red]

NWN 2 combat is seen as awful because the areas were awfully designed. If dungeons would be cut by 70% and instead of hordes of weaklings we would have to fight a few very powerful enemies, it could be interesting. It's quite dumb the way Obsidian and Bioware try to fool people in to believing the game is long by adding huge, monotone dungeon crawls. I personally believe the NWN 2 would be more liked if a single aspect, it's dungeons, would not be, as they overrode anything that is positive. They are quite amateurish in design; anyone could make better dungeons.

Have only played a bit of MotB because video card is broken but from what I saw, Obsidian still didn't learn the lesson and forced players to go through inconsequential enemies and long crawls.

Basically, dungeons can be pretty fun if they are the opposite of what was in NWN 2, KotOR 1/2 or any other Bioware/Obsidian game.

 

[themadhatter114]

Would you really consider BG2 a dungeon crawl, though? Shadows of Amn, in and of itself, had a pretty good plot and a few interesting companions. Comparing SoZ to Icewind Dale really is just the party creation aspect, which really was available in BG2, anyway, if you created the party in multiplayer. I mean, yeah, BG2 was combat heavy, but so was MotB. But there weren't really dungeons in BG2 as far as I can recall. Mostly you went to cities and fought in building and then ended up in the Underdark for a time.

Sure, BG2's story isn't as deep as MotB, but on the whole it's a much better game than NWN2 OC, probably.

I'm certainly not going to preorder the game, and I'll be rather disappointed if I hear that the companions and NPC's are boring and that that story sucks, and I won't buy it in that case, but until I get more previews that talk more about those things I'm pretty excited about this one.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

Have only played a bit of MotB because video card is broken but from what I saw, Obsidian still didn't learn the lesson and forced players to go through inconsequential enemies and long crawls.

You need to play all of it. There is a fair amount of combat at the start, but there aren't really any big crawls or hordes of enemies either (except the forest area and the underwater city... those were tedious).

 

[Zomg]

Would you really consider BG2 a dungeon crawl, though? Shadows of Amn, in and of itself, had a pretty good plot and a few interesting companions.

The immense majority of playtime is taken up by wandering around dungeon loops "fighting" (more accurately: clicking on) trash enemies. That qualifies it as a bad dungeon crawler at least.

 

[Solohk]

Sometimes you feel like Sushi, sometimes you feel like Pizza, do you know what I mean?

We want this expansion to capture the 'old school' feeling of exploring and adventuring, which I think the party creation, overland map, and party conversation system helps accomplish.

You had me at full party creation.

 

[CrimsonAngel]

Anthony can you confirm that their will be deep Choice and Consequence in this.

Or is this a IWD3 as some people seem to suggest.

 

[Jasede]

'True' RPGs?

MotB is more of an RPG than any of the Wizardry/Might and Magic games.

Also, Lumpy. I don't really want to argue.


Yes, for me CRPGs are Dungeon Crawlers. I like the Fallout style a bit, but it's not my favourite (by far). Fallout and PS:T aren't in my top-three RPGs, though Arcanum has enough old-school qualities to make it. [And even if I use old-school a lot, I really am not. I don't enjoy games pre ~1992 or post 2002].

I came to the Codex because I liked what, back then, was an RPG: walking through a dungeon with swords and killing things. Great if it had travel and food system, like RoA, which DOES make my it into my top-3. Even better if it has a LOT of classes, races and stats and items, like Wizardry 8, another top-3 game [Now you have my top 3 - Wizardry 8, Roa 2, Arcanum (Arcanum shares this spot with Ultima 7-2).

I find it VERY good that fans of these games - of party-based old-school games like the Goldbox series finally get a game for themself again. I'm very happy with Obsidians decision to do this and wish them all the best.


You can go believe that an RPG has to have choices and consequences. And you're right. But a CRPG doesn't. Give me a dungeon, a party, races, clases, items and a plot and I'm SO FUCKING SOLD.

And overland map! Hell yeah. I'm happy about this. Look, Matt, Lumpy - like I said: you can like other things in CRPGs than I do - but that does not make older CRPGs worse or less of a CRPG. Is Wizardry 7 suddenly awful because it has very few choices? Or 6? Or Might and Magic 3? No. They stay incredibly good CRPGs.

 

[Starwars]

Personally, what I'm hoping for is having an old-school flavoured D&D game but with fancy stuff like C&C attached to it. Kinda like mixing old-school D&D with Fallout. That'd be great.
I think it's a good thing they're doing something different from MotB. I rank MotB as one of my most fav games ever, but that doesn't mean that every game needs to follow in its footsteps.

Also, new screenies here: http://www.bbnwn.eu//phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=12191

Hehe, kinda like the boxart. Definetely has an old-school feel to it.

 

[Jaesun]

Personally, what I'm hoping for is having an old-school flavoured D&D game but with fancy stuff like C&C attached to it. Kinda like mixing old-school D&D with Fallout. That'd be great.
I think it's a good thing they're doing something different from MotB. I rank MotB as one of my most fav games ever, but that doesn't mean that every game needs to follow in its footsteps.

 

[Lumpy]

'True' RPGs?

MotB is more of an RPG than any of the Wizardry/Might and Magic games.

Also, Lumpy. I don't really want to argue.

Neither do I. I was just kidding about your shitty definition of RPGs. Doesn't mean I'm not interested in Storm of Zehir. NWN2's character creation system is pretty damn good, with feats grouped in categories and classes explained in detail. Toee's system was a bit overwhelming - you get a long list of feats arranged alphabetically with a minimalist description for each.
Pity it isn't TB.

You can go believe that an RPG has to have choices and consequences. And you're right. But a CRPG doesn't. Give me a dungeon, a party, races, clases, items and a plot and I'm SO FUCKING SOLD.

K, this is silly. An RPG needs C&C but a CRPG doesn't? Why not the other way around? CRPG = computer RPG.

Look, Matt, Lumpy - like I said: you can like other things in CRPGs than I do - but that does not make older CRPGs worse

No.

or less of a CRPG.

I believe they do.

Is Wizardry 7 suddenly awful because it has very few choices? Or 6? Or Might and Magic 3? No. They stay incredibly good games.

Fix'd.

Anyway, I'll wait for the Codecks approved review. If it has a decent story and great combat, I'll play it.