NWN2: Storm of Zehir at E3

[Nerve Gas]

Isn't Josh doing something similar to this in the black hound?

Hmm, I don't know who is he and what is he doing. Haven't copied this from anywhere. But yes, it's possible someone has something similar in mind as well.

Josh is the guy who worked on some Black Isle games and on NWN2. He was lead designer on the BIS BG3 project, The Black Hound.
He's now using his work on TBH to remake it as a NWN2 mod, changing the rule-set to some degree as well.
It's not coming out any time soon, rest assured.

 

[Elwro]

Isn't Josh doing something similar to this in the black hound?

Is Josh actually doing anything with Black Hound? :fingers crossed:

 

[Warden]

We are making a DnD game, so we are limited to what rules we can change.

In DnD, this model of DR that you have described, which kind of represents armor penetration, has been rolled into one value, the Armor Class.

The model you describe rings a bell to me. I vaguely recalling reading about a similar system when I was younger, but it was fixed values and it wasn't DnD. I remember things like chainmail was -2 to damage and plate was -3...or something like that.

I know, I know it's d&d.. the system is not bad but could use some tweaks.
And you changed some d&d rules already.. you added parry for example.

The variability in the DR (+ material resistance and armor penetration) is the thing that makes if fun. D&D already has damage reduction - but static. So you cannot damage a succubus in any way if you don't deal more than 10 damage or don't have a cold iron item or are not good. Would be more fun if it's 3d4 dr and 4d3 mr...
And there would be so much more variability in weapons.. imagine the possibilities. The armor penetration value would be a very important factor.

I don't know.. how can a leather armor confer any ac against a warhammer/mace/flail.. DR is the way to go.

 

[Murk]

^ It makes it much easier to avoid, as those weapons are heavy and swing slower, and a person in leather can dodge it much easier...

AC is somewhat a silly nuance but it serves its purpose well enough I think.

Regardless, they can implement what you're saying without changing much, but it wouldn't at all be very D&D ish.

Have armor give less AC and inherent automatic damage resistance.

For instance

Plate gives 4 AC but 5/- DR to slash and 3/- DR to pierce/bludgeon/Crush or something like that. these are all elements already found in games and wouldn't require rule changing so much as the base attributes of equipment would be different, which pretty much anyone can do with the editor.

I don't care either way to be honest as realism isn't my aim in high fantasy d&d

 

[Texas Red]

*snip*
KotOR2 wasn't successful.
*snip*

This is absolutely not true. The game sold over 1.5 million copies.

Heck, I think we might even be close to 1.75 or 2 million by now.

Hmm, how much did NWN 2 sell?

Also, that KotOR 2 sold so well = proof that you can release a sequel every year, concentrating on the gameplay and ignoring the graphics. Frankly, I'm glad that Bio is in bed with EA; they won't waste years on worthless visuals which in the end just detract attention and effort from what really matters.

 

[Warden]

^ It makes it much easier to avoid, as those weapons are heavy and swing slower, and a person in leather can dodge it much easier...

But that's already represented with the maximum dex bonus to ac. And on top of that they give additional AC.. which I don't like. Armor doesn't make you magically more dodgy. It resist blows.

And there's this bad situation because all have about the same AC regardless of the type of armor.
With leather you can have a high dex bonus to AC (so high dex chars will pick it prolly).
Plate mail has a big AC and small dex bonus..
So it all turns out the same and that's bad.

 

[Murk]

^ It makes it much easier to avoid, as those weapons are heavy and swing slower, and a person in leather can dodge it much easier...

But that's already represented with the maximum dex bonus to ac. And on top of that they give additional AC.. which I don't like. Armor doesn't make you magically more dodgy. It resist blows.

Not quite, with leather you can nullify the softer blows.

Imagine this, you're wearing leather armor and have minimal damage soak and maximum dodge.

A warhammer swings at you and you dodge it, but it still nips you, the leather absorbs the hit which would have otherwise hit you and bruised your side.

That's all represented by the armor's inherent AC of 2 and the additional dodge is granted by the DEX bonus.

And there's this bad situation because all have about the same AC regardless of the type of armor.
With leather you can have a high dex bonus to AC (so high dex chars will pick it prolly).
Plate mail has a big AC and small dex bonus..
So it all turns out the same and that's bad.

not quite, that means that a light armor wearing swashbuckler can go toe-to-toe to a full plated juggernaut, and that's how it should be.

the swashbuckler's sword should bounce off the heavy armor of the behemoth, and the behemoth should constantly be missing the swashbuckler because he's so skilled and nimble.

Besides, i think i covered the DR aspect in my previous post.

 

[Warden]

Hm.. I like systems where more variability is present.

If you have heavy armor - you dodge badly (dex penality) and your to hit is also, logically, penalised (since you're less agile in such armors). But the blows you take hurt less.

If you have light armor - you dodge better but if something hits you it hurts more.

I think this is much better than having so many armor "types" that basically have the exact same effect. (I.e. after the equation they give the same AC).

 

[Murk]

As best as i can tell then, you're aiming for a more realistic approach to armor and weapons - that's something i made a topic about in rpg design (value of weapons and armor) and i agree, that would be a very interesting thing to see implemented in a game.

but it would have no place in d&d and definitely not in NWN2 i think.

 

[Elhoim]

Hm.. I like systems where more variability is present.

If you have heavy armor - you dodge badly (dex penality) and your to hit is also, logically, penalised (since you're less agile in such armors). But the blows you take hurt less.

If you have light armor - you dodge better but if something hits you it hurts more.

I think this is much better than having so many armor "types" that basically have the exact same effect. (I.e. after the equation they give the same AC).

Something very similar to this is being done in AoD.

 

[MetalCraze]

*snip*
KotOR2 wasn't successful.
*snip*

This is absolutely not true. The game sold over 1.5 million copies.

Heck, I think we might even be close to 1.75 or 2 million by now.

Seriously? In that case what was the point in the extremely generic boring NWN2 OC?

 

[Shoelip]

*snip*
KotOR2 wasn't successful.
*snip*

This is absolutely not true. The game sold over 1.5 million copies.

Heck, I think we might even be close to 1.75 or 2 million by now.

Seriously? In that case what was the point in the extremely generic boring NWN2 OC?

I'd like to get an answer to that two, but I don't think you're going to get an answer if you ask the question outright. Developers have reputations to worry about.

 

[Saxon1974]

Im looking forward to this mode, an explorable world map is exactly my style of the game. I hope its good and succesfull and they make more of them..

 

[Lumpy]

*snip*
KotOR2 wasn't successful.
*snip*

This is absolutely not true. The game sold over 1.5 million copies.

Heck, I think we might even be close to 1.75 or 2 million by now.

Seriously? In that case what was the point in the extremely generic boring NWN2 OC?

KotOR 2 was written by MCA. NWN2 was written by some guy who went on to work on Bioware.

 

[Crichton]

We are making a DnD game, so we are limited to what rules we can change.

In DnD, this model of DR that you have described, which kind of represents armor penetration, has been rolled into one value, the Armor Class.

The model you describe rings a bell to me. I vaguely recalling reading about a similar system when I was younger, but it was fixed values and it wasn't DnD. I remember things like chainmail was -2 to damage and plate was -3...or something like that.

If you take a look at the 3.5 SRD, it has rules for armor providing damage reduction in addition to AC from Unearthed Arcana.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/armorAsDamageReduction.htm

Table: Armor and Damage Reduction
Armor Armor
Bonus1 Damage Reduction

Light armor
Padded +1 none
Leather +1 1/-
Studded leather +2 1/-
Chain shirt +2 2/-

Medium armor
Hide +2 1/-
Scale mail +2 2/-
Chainmail +3 2/-
Breastplate +3 2/-

Heavy armor
Splint mail +3 3/-
Banded mail +3 3/-
Half-plate +4 3/-
Full plate +4 4/-

1. Add any enhancement bonus to this value.

I was actually thinking of adding this to my next NWN2 module. It looks pretty simple to implement; just reduce the AC values as specified in armor.2da and then add the DR to all the template blueprints (4 materials for each type, 12 types, shouldn't take that long...).

 

[Shoelip]

I don't think they're going to use variant rules for an official video game. That would be like saying the variant rules are better. Plus, it would confuse people who didn't know what was going on. Some people tend to take confusion personally and then throw hate tantrums.

 

[Warden]

And PLEASE: NO AUTO-HEAL ON AREA TRANSITIONS! That frustrated me so much in the OC.. I don't remember if it was like that in MotB.

 

[Shoelip]

Video on Gametrailers.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/37137.html

 

[Starwars]

For anyone interested, you can see the new overland map in the above video. It looks a bit different than I expected, but it looks pretty nice! Looks like it's gonna be fun to go exploring, heh.

 

[Shoelip]

Yeah sorry. Didn't watch it before I posted that.

The overland map is allot like Mount and Blade actually, but allot brighter. Apparently the main enemy is Zehir 4E god of darkness, poison, and snakes... and... well, just watch the video.

 

[Warden]

Yes, it looks very nice.


One question; he says you start at level 3. Will there be some "tutorial" to level you from lvl 1 to 3 (like in the OC) or will you just get the exp and start right from level 3?

 

[fastpunk]

The gametrailers video is nice. I imagined the Overland map a bit different but it looks like an interesting feature nonetheless. The graphics look a bit improved... or is it the 'fault' of the new environments? Not much in the way of new info though.

 

[Warden]

And another question..

So as you travel on the overland map you make various skill checks - I assume it's a one time check, right? I hope it's not scripted so that you can go up and down on the same spot triggering the check until you succeed.

 

[Lumpy]

And another question..

So as you travel on the overland map you make various skill checks - I assume it's a one time check, right? I hope it's not scripted so that you can go up and down on the same spot triggering the check until you succeed.

Hopefully they'll be using fixed checks rather than die rolls.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

Why are they making this? Another character-focused RPG like MotB would be better.