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Now that DA2 is out, how do you feel about ME3's chances?

commie

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Edward_R_Murrow said:
Huh, seems like everybody else had a dissimilar view on the ME series. I actually liked the first one a lot better, and found the second kind of disappointing, mostly on account of the more streamlined, but rather bland gameplay.

Was thinking of writing a review, but maybe I'm really off base here.

As for ME3, after seeing what EA has done to Bioware, forcing it to push out games on the same schedule as Madden releases...I'm not too optimistic.

Nope, I thought the same. The first one was better because of the simpler gameplay of the second one;it had a more epic story with a feel of urgency(even if in execution was just the usual 'find the starmaps' hub style) compared to the 'do the sidequests and fight the big bad in your own good time' of the second; and because of the first few hours on the citadel where it still felt like it was going to be a RPG of sorts ala KOTOR and have a bit of exploration and depth. Funnily,those few hours were what the masses complained about the most with ME1 and that's why we got streamlined corridors as locations in the second one.


ricolikesrice said:
what makes ME2 a better shooter than ME1 as some claim ?


They got rid of all the RPG elements and that makes it 'better'. :roll: While personally it was much better actually having character skill have some effect on whether you hit or not it didn't help the crowd that wanted to play it as a shooter and that's why ME2 is better as a shooter. Not having to spend time deciding on upgrades during leveling up and even straighter corridors also helped make it a more fun shooter for the console generation here.

AI and companions seemed more or less the same, so nothing much to see there.
 

Coyote

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I just made a relevant post in another thread, but the short of it is that ME2, by removing RPG elements and improving encounter design, went from being a mediocre shooter and a mediocre RPG to a fun shooter but poor RPG. So as long as you don't approach it expecting a good RPG, you'll probably like ME2 better (unless you just don't like shooters).

Plot-wise, it's slower - the entire game kind of feels like one big sidequest in the overarching plotline - and has more derp moments, but I found watching the story play out more enjoyable nonetheless because it takes itself less seriously and it feels like the writers are more in their element/comfortable with the ME universe.
 

janjetina

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Mass Effect was a really bad shooter though, due to popamole system, cloned levels, cloned opponents and horrible minigames. It was so horrible that I haven't bothered downloading ME 2. Now I'm thinking of downloading and trying it.

What makes ME2 a good shooter hybrid (for me, an example of a good (great) shooter hybrid is System Shock 2)? Has Mass Effect 2 improved in combat design (is it still popamole?), level design (are there cloned box filled levels in ME2?) and encounter design (is it attack of the clones 2 or there are interesting encounters?)?
 

Jaesun

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As the resident Mass Effect Fag™ (I'm only on my 4th play-though though...)

janjetina said:
What makes ME2 a good shooter hybrid (for me, an example of a good (great) shooter hybrid is System Shock 2)?

What element's in System Shock 2 made it a better hybrid shooter than Mass Effect?

janjetina said:
Has Mass Effect 2 improved in combat design (is it still popamole?)

It is still a cover based shooter, with a remove shield and barriers from enemies system. Or press the overload button on a mech, and something AWESOME happens!

janjetina said:
level design (are there cloned box filled levels in ME2?)

In my personal opinion, some of the Main Quest Areas were better in Mass Effect, than Mass Effect 2 (probably due to the much longer dev time). That said, they are not terrible in Mass Effect 2, a few of the Main Quest and loyalty mission areas I rather enjoyed quite a bit. The horrible horrible horrible copy paste of those side missions in Mass Effect are thankfully gone in Mass Effect 2. The side missions in Mass Effect 2 are all uniquely designed. That said, not every single one of them is awesome, some were enjoyable, some not. Your mileage may vary.

janjetina said:
and encounter design (is it attack of the clones 2 or there are interesting encounters?)?

Thats an interestingly worded question. I think that is more of personal taste, than something a person can outright define for you?

I personally did not like Mass Effect that much. I felt at the time it was Bioware's worst title to date. It was a mediocre shooter in a mediocre setting, then they came out with Mass Effect 2 and it all got much much better. Do keep in mind, the Mass Effect series is a b-grade sci-fi soap opera, and that is still what Bioware delivered. To be honest, you might try watching a YouTube™ LP video of Mass Effect 2 and see if it is something you might possibly enjoy.. The beginning is however kind of meh... but once you get the ship, something wonderful happens...
 

circ

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Jaesun said:
The beginning is however kind of meh... but once you get the ship, something wonderful happens...
No, not really. Here's ME 2: Short pointless dialogue. Pew pew pew from behind a box. Everywhere you go there are boxes to hide behind. Makes perfect sense. Pew pew pew a boss. Gather groupmates with the previously mentioned formula of dialogue and pew pew pew. Mostly pew pew pew. Dialogue and pew pew pew around until you catch them all. There are a few hubs, but as if ME 1 wasn't linear and sparse enough, ME 2 changes all that. Hubs are literally there for a dozen upgrades. And oh, if you want to see naked blue chicks dancing and something. Then there are loyalty quests. More pew pew pew. Dialogue doesn't do anything, well except lead to romance if you want. It's all pew pew pew if you want loyalty. And it's such shitty pew pew pew too. In the first one you atleast had varying weaponry, somewhat. That's all gone, and so is armor. Streamlined story? No it isn't. Stop the collectors before they kidnap all the humies and feed them to a big Terminator thing. It's shit. Better looking shit in places (your groupmates look better but you don't, unless you play as Vanderloopoo), but still shit.
 

hyttenhoof

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I just hope it'll flop so terribly that not only does it close down Bioware, it also cripples EAs influence severely.

that's, ofcourse, not possible, since, no matter how bad it is, the preorders alone will make it profitable.
 

Jaesun

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hyttenhoof said:
I just hope it'll flop so terribly that not only does it close down Bioware, it also cripples EAs influence severely.

that's, ofcourse, not possible, since, no matter how bad it is, the preorders alone will make it profitable.

Oh yeah! I gotta get this on pre-order. Thanks for the reminder!
 

Nael

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Jaesun said:
racofer said:
Jaesun said:
As the resident Mass Effect Fag™ (I'm only on my 4th play-though though...)

Noob.

3 more play-throughs and I can finally say it is a great game!

I wish that fucking new DLC would be out by now FFS!

I thought one was supposed to declare a game "Banal. Boring. Shit." after 7 playthroughs.

Color me confused.
 

hyttenhoof

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Jaesun said:
hyttenhoof said:
I just hope it'll flop so terribly that not only does it close down Bioware, it also cripples EAs influence severely.

that's, ofcourse, not possible, since, no matter how bad it is, the preorders alone will make it profitable.

Oh yeah! I gotta get this on pre-order. Thanks for the reminder!


:x
 

sgc_meltdown

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Mass Effect 3 should involve doing a different quest for each species that involves building up a top secret specialised reaper killing capital ship and you get to choose different abilities and unlock skins for each ship and the main quest is making the new normady SR3 super ship if you're renegade it will be red and if you're paragon it will be blue and then in the final space battle all the ships will combine to make a robot and this huge badass robot will look like a gigantic robot commander shepard and it punches the incoming reaper ships and you grind on reaper mobs until you reach the reaper boss zone and defeat his 3 forms

oooooh yeah how do you like them apples racofer or should I say CHRIS


























6uuOp.jpg
 

racofer

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sgc_meltdown said:
Mass Effect 3 should involve doing a different quest for each species that involves building up a top secret specialised reaper killing capital ship and you get to choose different abilities and unlock skins for each ship and the main quest is making the new normady SR3 super ship if you're renegade it will be red and if you're paragon it will be blue and then in the final space battle all the ships will combine to make a robot and this huge badass robot will look like a gigantic robot commander shepard and it punches the incoming reaper ships and you grind on reaper mobs until you reach the reaper boss zone and defeat his 3 forms

oooooh yeah how do you like them apples racofer or should I say CHRIS

smy7m0.jpg
 

AlaCarcuss

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Re: Now that DA2 is out, how do you feel about ME3's chances

Trash said:
Dragon Age 2 is an utter failure as both a fun game and especially as an rpg. Worse, it feels like an utterly rushed botchjob. Which isn't that amazing considering the measly 1.5 year development cycle.

The jury on Mass Effect 3 is however still out. Seeing how Mass Effect 2 came out in january 2010 and how 3 is destined to hit the shelves in the holiday season of 2011 it once again seems like a very limited timeframe to develop a good game. Especially when trying to end a trilogy with a bang instead of a whimper. What are your expectations?

Haven't read the whole thread, so this may have been already pointed out.

ME is a completely different kettle of fish to DA:O + DAII. The ME franchise was always going to be (at least) a trilogy from the moment of inception - not so with DA (though more games where probably in the back of their minds, depending on how well DA:O did).

I have not doubt they were working on parts of ME3 even before the release of ME2 - just as development of ME2 was well under way before the release of ME1.

So the Jan 2010 - holiday 2011 time frame is not correct.

I make no judgements on the quality of the ME games here, apart from the fact I'm absolutely sure ME3 will be a lot more polished and complete than DA II.
 

Azarkon

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Unlike the developers of DA 2, the ME developers never pretended their project was anything but a "next-gen console rump." For this reason alone, I think they're in better shape. The problem with DA 2 wasn't just that it was rushed. It was that they tried to make it into something it's not for obvious cash-in purposes, and then didn't have enough time to make it all work because 1.5 years isn't enough to turn DA into ME 2.5. In doing so, they sold out whatever old-school credentials they had left and betrayed the old-school segment of their player base. DA 2 was just a really fucking terrible move by a team that has lost what remains of its soul. I don't know if EA was threatening to boot Gaider's team unless they emulated the success of ME 2 or something, but the game would've been better off had they stuck to their original vision and expanded on it, instead of putting out this shit.
 

Jaesun

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Azarkon said:
Unlike the developers of DA 2, the ME developers never pretended their project was anything but a "next-gen console rump." For this reason alone, I think they're in better shape. The problem with DA 2 wasn't just that it was rushed. It was that they tried to make it into something it's not for obvious cash-in purposes, and then didn't have enough time to make it all work because 1.5 years isn't enough to turn DA into ME 2.5. In doing so, they sold out whatever old-school credentials they had left and betrayed the old-school segment of their player base. EA finds no profitability in these RPG things. Unless you can crank this shit out repeatedly, make it "accessible" to the consoletard mass, and make a profit we will be ASSUMING CONTROL and shut your fucking developer ass down faster than you can say Westwood.
 

Azarkon

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Yes, we can all blame this on EA. Easy target, really. But not as post-worthy as the sob stories of ex-Bioware fanboys:

This is a topic I posted in the General discussion area. Someone mentioned I should post it here so the 'right' people may read it. I hope it captures the thoughts of some of my fellow BioWare friends here...

Before I begin, I'd just like to provide some background information. BioWare turned me into a 'nerd.' The game that changed my opinion and expectation of what a game could be was KOTOR. It literally blew me away, and I told everyone I knew about it, still to this day. I have played, loved, and beaten KOTOR 1-2, Jade Empire, Mass Effect 1-2 and DA:O. I have convinced no less than 40 people to play/buy a BioWare game in the last 10 years. I am a BIG fan.

What I have come to expect is a world and a story that becomes personal, one that I can reach out and touch. DA2 has let me down in a way that I thought impossible. I am only 26yo, not a jaded old-school gamer by any means, so I feel like I am in the target demographic. This game is so cold, clinical and barren. It feels like a corporate product and not a lovingly crafted piece of art. It is just so shallow, I can't believe it's from BioWare.

What has happened to the NPC interaction? WHERE is it? I run around a huge city, run room-to-room in a tavern, chantry, etc and I talk to NO ONE. There is no one to talk to at all! I remember all the ways that I touch and interact and affect the game world in DA:O and KOTOR and Mass Effect and it's all GONE from DA2. I no longer come upon someone in need, learning a bit about them before deciding if and how I can help them. The seemingly small, intricate little stories that make my gaming experience personal are all gone; Replaced with NPC's standing and uttering one-liners ad-nauseum and gesturing towards nothing and no one.

Gone is the cool little story about a Dwarf girl arguing with her merchant father about studying magic at the circle tower. Gone is the waitress being subjugated by her domineering and rude boss, who has dreams of owning the bar herself one day. Gone is the Dalish Elf who is trying to cure her sick animal and needs the calm words of someone with an understanding of nature. Gone... All gone... But WHY? All these things are what make the story personal, special, and our own. WHY have they been erased?

The quests.... What happened.... I run through buildings picking up random objects that I telepathically navigate back to their owners who DON'T EVEN SPEAK TO ME when I inexplicably return them. This is such an obvious lack of love and effort put into the game. The whole world is so incredibly callous and disconnected, almost completely ignoring the character and our story in every way. We are just funnelled from one quest to the next, not leaving our mark or affecting anyone in any discernible way. It makes me so sad...

Of personal taste is the story. It feels so disjointed and unfocused to me. I don't think there's anything less compelling than hearing my sister spur my progress with 'We need status and coin.' I can't imagine a less noble, and less heroic reason to play an RPG. Maybe we don't need to be fighting against the end-of-the-world everytime, but I feel that the motivations in DA2 are.... like the rest of the game... shallow.

The rest of my issues have already been covered by others, so I will leave them out of my post to avoid sounding hyperbolic. I am sorry that I am so negative towards this game. I am not a 'hater,' or an angry 'PC Gamer' or any other miffed stereotype. I am just a guy that KNOWS BioWare CAN and HAS done so much better. It is so hard to believe that I will finally NOT be recommending this game to everyone I know and talk to.

BioWare has built a reputation that has been spread by US, the people most affected and most positive about their games. Their success as a developer has been facilitated by the growing core fan-base whose word-of-mouth advertising has introduced gamer after gamer to our favorite games. I was once one of these unsuspecting people, who was introduced to KOTOR so many years ago. In chasing the casual fan, and compromising their original vision they have hurt and disappointed many of the fans that have been there for 10+ years. I know I am just one guy, and that my tiny voice can only cry so loud; But I, along with so many others, have built the reputation that BioWare now enjoys as the foundation of their success. Next time, please don't forget your most loyal customers, our money is just as valuable as any one elses.
 

waywardOne

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Keep on the Borderlands, 1981.
 

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