Interview NMA's big to-do about nothing posted as advertised

[Vault Dweller]

No. One should ask themslves what BIO's goal was for KOTOR's combat. It wans't to make a deep,a nd complex combat system ala NWN or TOEE.

Uh, did you just compare ToEE combat to NWN?

...it was to make it a cinematic expereince and for the most aprt they accomplished that goal. KOTOR's combat while not overall challenging and while not very deep WAS a cinematic experience and was "cool".

Are you saying that if they added more combat feats and moves, it wouldn't be cinematic anymore? Are cinematic and deep mutually exclusive? Can Bio handle only one goal at a time?

"As for the rpg vs adventure, that's my opinion, so kindly fuck off "

No. RPGCodex doesn't cover adventure games; only role-playing games. I'll take the official 'Codex naming of BIo games as RPGs over your nonsenical person opinion any day.

The Codex just needed a reason to bitch about Bio games in the News section.

That doesn't prove they didn't enjoy working on those games. It just proves they want to try their hand at other stuff now.

What a convinient explanation, don't you think? Personally I don't buy that. You don't just hand over something you liked (and developed) to somebody else.

Nor have they said they'd *never* work on them again.

Not while Feargus The Sequel Man is around

 

[Volourn]

"Uh, did you just compare ToEE combat to NWN?"

Yes. I also comapred KOTOR to TOEE. I'll even go as far as to compare DS, and D combat to TOEE. Whatcha gonna do 'bout it? Nuttin'.


"Are you saying that if they added more combat feats and moves, it wouldn't be cinematic anymore? Are cinematic and deep mutually exclusive? Can Bio handle only one goal at a time?"

Sure, they could. Just like they could have added more feats to NWN or Troika could with TOEE. However, they felt other things were more important to add than feats. Apparantly, BIo thoguht a good story mattered in KOTOR unlike Troika with TOEE.

Next.


"The Codex just needed a reason to bitch about Bio games in the News section."

Perhaps; but the site still qualifies it as PC RPGs. Afterall, if it was just to bitch about BIo games why don't you guys cover Jade Empire? Ahh, because it's not PC. See, caught ya there in a nonsenical comment... again.


"What a convinient explanation, don't you think? Personally I don't buy that. You don't just hand over something you liked (and developed) to somebody else."

That's good. Kinda hard to buy something that isn't for sale. Once again, just because BIO has chosen to move on doesn't mean they did not enjoy working on their D&D games. If they hated that, why are they helping Obsidan with the creative process for NWN2 and even KOTOR 2 to a lesser degree. Not to mention, if they were so hated D&D so much; they wouldn't be planning DD woudl they?

Next.


"Not while Feargus The Sequel Man is around"

Feargus is not BIO. He is irrelevant. Try again.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Hey, you keep on the attack you keep on trolling and I keep calling you out on it. Your choice.

Tell you what. You keep claiming I'm attacking you and trolling, and I'll stand here wondering what kind of drugs you've been having.

If I was either attacking you or trolling, I'd pretty much recognize it. But the only thing I recognize now is that you're talking out of your ass on this one.

 

[Volourn]

Another attack? Keep up the good work, troll.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Yes. I also comapred KOTOR to TOEE. I'll even go as far as to compare DS, and D combat to TOEE. Whatcha gonna do 'bout it? Nuttin'.

I wasn't going to do anything about it, I was just curious how delusional you are.

Apparantly, BIo thoguht a good story mattered in KOTOR unlike Troika with TOEE.

Really? Well, too bad then they couldn't implement it and went with "find 4 maps to stop the bad guy with "you used to be cool" surprise twist"

Perhaps; but the site still qualifies it as PC RPGs. Afterall, if it was just to bitch about BIo games why don't you guys cover Jade Empire? Ahh, because it's not PC. See, caught ya there in a nonsenical comment... again.

Volourn, it was obviously a joke, lighten up.

Once again, just because BIO has chosen to move on doesn't mean they did not enjoy working on their D&D games. If they hated that, why are they helping Obsidan with the creative process for NWN2 and even KOTOR 2 to a lesser degree. Not to mention, if they were so hated D&D so much; they wouldn't be planning DD woudl they?

It's called business. They are helping Obsidian not because they like to help new guys but because of the business interests. I'm sure that that much is clear to you. Also, I never said they hated the past settings, I simply pointed that they dropped both settings whenever they felt that they've made a strong enough rep to try to make it on their own.

"Not while Feargus The Sequel Man is around"

Feargus is not BIO. He is irrelevant. Try again.

On the contrary, he's Bio's junior partner. I doubt that Bio would have dropped KOTOR if Obsidian wasn't around. In fact, judging by the interviews, Obsidian was created to handle stuff Bio wasn't interested in anymore.

 

[Volourn]

"I was just curious how delusional you are."

Very. Hence, why I fit in here.


"Really? Well, too bad then they couldn't implement it and went with "find 4 maps to stop the bad guy with "you used to be cool" surprise twist" "

Again, please explain why you liked KOTOR. You don't like the combat, the graphics and music ar emeh, the story sucks, the characters are juvenile, the role-playing isn't the equal of FO, you can only truly effect the ending in one spot. Once again, why do you like this game?


"Volourn, it was obviously a joke, lighten up."

Eh. Everything is a joke on the Codex. I'm always laughing here when I'm posting and reading others' posts (see poor RP ).


"Also, I never said they hated the past settings,"

Thanks for letting me win the the argument. Game over.


"On the contrary, he's Bio's junior partner."

LOL


"I doubt that Bio would have dropped KOTOR if Obsidian wasn't around. In fact, judging by the interviews, Obsidian was created to handle stuff Bio wasn't interested in anymore."

Proof? Or is this more "humour" aka 'talkoutofmyassitus"? :evil: :idea: :wink:

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Another attack? Keep up the good work, troll.

Eh. Everything is a joke on the Codex. I'm always laughing here when I'm posting and reading others' posts (see poor RP ).

Very good Visceris impersonation, Vol. Is it temporary, or are you thinking in long terms?

 

[Volourn]

"Very good Visceris impersonation, Vol. Is it temporary, or are you thinking in long terms?"

Huh? Still trolling and flaming i see. Calling someone Visceris. I'd rather yous tick to saying I suck BIo's titties. At least it has some truth in it.

And, no, this is Volourn. All Volourn. I have always been that way. It's always fun and games until you get in the way of the Volournian Wrecking Ball tm.

I await your next flame.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Nah, there won't be another one, at least not now. I'm burned out on taking you seriously. If you want to keep your Dumby McDumbnuts mode activated, be my guest.

 

[Volourn]

Okay. Now, await the genius of VD to enlighten and save me from myself.

 

[Sol Invictus]

KOTOR, NWN, and all the Baldur's Gate games were RPGs. Like it or not, they were RPGs. If you idiots can go around defending Dungeon Siege and calling it an RPG no matter how much I disagree with you (and still do), please do not act like a bunch of fucking hypocrites when it comes to any of Bioware's games, or Morrowind for that matter. Granted, NWN sucked and Baldur's Gates combat was pretty weak, especially in comparison to Fallout, but they were RPGs regardless of that fact.

I think it's funny how some of you chuckleheads would call Morrowind a 'linear adventure game' (what game was it that you were playing again?) and defend Dungeon Siege as an RPG because it has stats (really?) and items. Oh wow, items, that makes an RPG. Guess that makes Doom 3 an RPG, too. But because KOTOR doesn't live up to your expectations when it comes to decision making (oh yeah, Dungeon Siege had a ton of decision making) and storyline choices (Dungeon Siege had tons of that, too. Remember?) it's suddenly an 'adventure game'. Oh my.

I must say I find it particularly amusing that one of the only people who isn't trolling in this thread happens to be none other than Volourn who has been guilty of trolling in the past many times (though not at all in this case), while those doing the trolling happen to be Codex regulars who are usually the target of trolls and flamers. It is a reversal of roles, as it seems. Oh yeah, just because some of you are used to getting trolled by Volourn for whatever reason (sometimes you deserve it, for making banal comments to which Rosh or myself are not around to call you on your stupidity) doesn't give you any excuse to try to pin this one on Volourn. He might be a troll sometimes, but he isn't in this case, so don't say he is. It would be obvious to even a five year old, about who is perpetrating these actions and fueling the fire with their nonsensical rhetoric and hypocritical viewpoints. VD, we cover Bioware's games because we want to make fun of them, even though they're not really RPGs? So pray tell, why aren't we covering Jade Empire, or World of Warcraft? One is on the XBox and the other is an MMORPG. We don't cover anything besides RPGs, so why are games like Dragon Age, NWN and Baldur's Gate covered around here? It would serve you good to make some sense.

Before I conclude this message I must say that it is according to the 6th Commandment (according to Vault Dweller) that you are not supposed to compare the combat of any game with TOEE, for that is to lower the grand accomplishments of His almighty name, Lord Tim Cain, and is thus considered a sacrilege. You will not befuddle us with your lies, and mistruths, heretic.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Again, please explain why you liked KOTOR.

Eh, I didn't. I liked it at first (when I started playing), then it became obvious that there are still no choices except for the ones that don't really matter, the combat was a joke, feats/skills selection was abysmal, linear gameplay, etc. It was a better game then NWN though.

"Also, I never said they hated the past settings,"

Thanks for letting me win the the argument. Game over.

Yeah, because "didn't hate"=love. This calls for some eye-rolling lol

"I doubt that Bio would have dropped KOTOR if Obsidian wasn't around. In fact, judging by the interviews, Obsidian was created to handle stuff Bio wasn't interested in anymore."

Proof? Or is this more "humour" aka 'talkoutofmyassitus"? :evil: :idea: :wink:

It's more of a specualtion that makes sense. If you think about it. Rephrasing an old saying "if Obsidian didn't exist, Bio should have invented it". Well, maybe they did.

 

[Vault Dweller]

KOTOR, NWN, and all the Baldur's Gate games were RPGs.

I was just teasing Volourn, but I do think of Bio games as adventure RPGs.

If you idiots can go around defending Dungeon Siege and calling it an RPG no matter how much I disagree with you

I'm not sure whom you are referring to, but for the record, I've never said a good word about DS.

I think it's funny how some of you chuckleheads would call Morrowind a 'linear adventure game'

Never did that either. I call it an exploration game (ok, an RPG) with adjustable stats.

I must say I find it particularly amusing that one of the only people who isn't trolling in this thread happens to be none other than Volourn

I thought I was participating in a discussion, turns out I was trolling ... How embarrassing.

VD, we cover Bioware's games because we want to make fun of them, even though they're not really RPGs?

It was clearly a joke. Hello?

Before I conclude this message I must say that it is according to the 6th Commandment (according to Vault Dweller) that you are not supposed to compare the combat of any game with TOEE

ToEE has many flaws, yet combat isn't one of them. It's one of the best implementation of DnD rules, and comparing it to NWN bastardized combat was silly, imo.

 

[Sol Invictus]

Hey, just because someone manages to prove you wrong about something doesn't mean you can backpaddle and transform what you said into some nonsense retroactive 'joke' nobody found funny or laughed at, much less perceived as an actual joke.

As for ToEE's combat - what you said is true, it is in fact the best implementation of D&D rules in a CRPG, but again, what's wrong with comparing it with anything else? I'm fairly certain that Volourn wasn't comparing them in the sense of being 'similarly good implementations of D&D rules in a CRPG'. That was merely an assumption you made.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Yeah, because clearly I thought that we call Bio games RPGs so we could officially laugh at them. Please.

Edit:

As for ToEE's combat - what you said is true, it is in fact the best implementation of D&D rules in a CRPG, but again, what's wrong with comparing it with anything else? I'm fairly certain that Volourn wasn't comparing them in the sense of being 'similarly good implementations of D&D rules in a CRPG'. That was merely an assumption you made.

Fair enough. So, if you are "fairly certain" that Volourn wasn't comparing in that sense, tell me in what sense he compared them? Was it "they are both computer games" sense?

 

[Sol Invictus]

I'll leave that for him to explain.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Ok, so you are fairly certain only in one thing - it's definitely NOT what I meant, but any other thing. I have a feeling you don't like me. lol

Anyway, while we are patiently waiting for Volourn to show up and uncover the mystary, here is the oriiginal quote:

It wans't to make a deep,a nd complex combat system ala NWN or TOEE.

Something tells me that he meant that both are "deep and complex combat systems". Do you agree with that, my esteemed colleague?

 

[Sol Invictus]

Well, in spite of the relatively poor execution, NWN definitely contains the rules to subside as a 'complex' combat system. It certainly was nowhere as simplistic as Diablo, or Dungeon Siege.

 

[Vault Dweller]

How very diplomatic. How about this: despite poor execution, NWN is based on a deep and complex system? Anyway, I think the execution is kinda important, and your own compaints about SS TB implementation kinda prove that.

 

[Sol Invictus]

Well, SS has a complex system, too. I never said it didn't (nor are you suggesting that I said any such thing), but yes, execution is very important - just as important than the rules themselves. Besides the banal quests, and the contrite storyline with Aribeth, that is one of the main reasons why NWN wasn't a good game for me.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

He might be a troll sometimes, but he isn't in this case, so don't say he is. It would be obvious to even a five year old, about who is perpetrating these actions and fueling the fire with their nonsensical rhetoric and hypocritical viewpoints.

In the part of your post that relates to me, wheter intentionally or not... In case people have forgotten, a troll is someone who posts stuff to intentionally rile up other posters. So in this case, what should we call someone who claims that I called him a fanboy, then claims that I may not have called him a fanboy but I thought about doing so, then clearly states I'm trolling when all I'm doing is asking him simple questions? In my book, that's trolling, and using his words, I'll call him on that. *If* I was trolling Vol, trust me, it would be noticeable, mainly because I suck at it.

 

[Sol Invictus]

I was just having a talk with Taluntain about how Troika has made us lose our respect for them with TOEE. It goes like this: Troika milked the D&D license for money but doesn't care enough (if at all) to put any effort into it. They released a game that's half-finished, underdeveloped, buggy and downright unpatched (It doesn't work in SP2 and DX9C) and put a single guy on the job of fixing it, it just shows how little they care about the product.

Bioware has a lot of my respect these days. You'll notice that Bioware takes an effort to developing finished products, even if they are licensed ones. I wasn't happy with NWN, but at least they're still patching it, and even to this day they're still adding new features. They could have stopped after the release of the 2nd expansion pack, but they didn't.

Steve Moret might care about TOEE, but Troika certainly doesn't give a shit.

 

[Whipporowill]

Rex, let's not get into this debate again. For starters, Troika is a small dev house (20-30 people) and can't afford to support a product full time without getting paid. Bio on the other hand has a freaking LIVE team and about 200 employees. They can easily funnel a little money and people from one project to the other. Great comparison there, mistah.

And as for the SP2 (Dx 9.0c really), how can that be credited to be Troika's fault? If anything, that one should've cropped up in QA - if ever. A lot of games have problems with SP2.

 

[baelstren]

there's surprisingly little discussion on the following comment both here and over in NMA:

I’m not a system designer, though, so maybe I’m high. I like the idea, but some other people here have said that they think it would be a bit redundant to have both turn based and paused real time. What do you guys think? Would that be redundant?

I wonder... would most gamers bother to try out both? or they end up using RTwP, find it sufficient for most situations, and don't bother to use TB anymore? If that's the case the effort spent in TB is just not worth it. (taking into consideration the extra dev hour and testing/balancing resulting from it)

Personally I think the above scenario is the most likely. Those playing TB would swtich to RTwP to get past easy battles while those playing RTwP may not bother exploring TB options. What I'm saying is, the hybrid system will only benefit TB crowd, but not the other way round. (I'm assuming most people will play one mode or the other most of the time, and not alternate between the two frequently)

so what do you guys think? is it worth the extra dev hours to put in TB combat? what features would not translate well from RTwP into TB?

RTwPers tend to not pay so much attention to combat anyway, so you might as well program towards TB, making the turns "fast" and "continuous" for the RTwP mode. As long as the animations are nice in their "dynamic cutscene" the RTwPers won't know the difference. :twisted:

 

[Sol Invictus]

That's no excuse to release an incomplete game. What was Tim's excuse for a pathetic non-existent storyline with non-player characters having a total of 10-15 lines of dialogue in total? Just because the original campaign was bare-bones doesn't give them an excuse to produce a bare-bones game with nothing in it. Faithful to the campaign, what a laugh.

The game is basically completely unplayable for anyone with XP SP2. It was barely released a year ago. Nothing is being done about this.

Troika has great after-sales service.