New Alpha Protocol screens

[Jedi_Learner]

Well, that explains things.

 

[Fat Dragon]

"Guys....all we're showing you is this console action game stuff....but remember...it's an RPG first and foremost. Now let's get more shots of guns, martial arts, and babes."

And an RPG it is. There've been a few previews made that list examples of some c&c in AP. That said, it was made clear from the very beginning that this wouldn't be an rpg aimed at people like those here at the Codex. Doesn't make it a bad rpg though. Some of us don't require an rpg to be super deep in order to enjoy it.

"Oh this bullet time power and this unlimited ammo power is totally in the setting and not stupid. I mean, it's a spy movie setting and sometimes dumb spy movies have people shoot way more ammo than in the clip so it's totally fitting and not just us making a really dumb mechanic because we've never made an action game before."

Lulz. Pretty much every action rpg has over-the-top attack abilities like that. It's not that surprising and it's no big deal. Bitching about that is just dumb nitpicking. Would Max Payne have been as fun without bullet time and its over-the-top maneuvers?

"We use the three JB archetypes to illustrate how totally different our game can be played."

That's pretty much the truth.

"Even though this is our first foray into action gaming, it's going to be totally awesome. We know exactly what we're doing here with absolutely no experience. That's the power of concentrated hopechange!"

You're kidding, right? No experience? It's a fucking RPG, which Obsidian (especially its former Black Isle members) have plenty experience. Third person action gameplay? Bioware didn't have much experience designing a similar system but their Mass Effect turned out alright. Combat ended up pretty fun, if a little rough around the edges.

And of course they're going to say their game is the shit. What do you expect them to do, act like they're a bunch of newbies and say something like "Well we did our best hopefully it will turn out good."? All that would do is give people the impression that their game will end up crappy bc the developers would sound as if they weren't sure of their abilities. If you want people to want to buy your game you need to convince them you know what you're doing, which means showing some confidence.

"Sega is widely regarded as one of the worst publishers in the industry, pushing out terrible drek, cashing in on hype, and running established, storied franchises into the ground. We at Obsidian however know our way around publishers and would never be bullied, or have our game's content be slashed apart by a publisher's whims."

That's pretty much only happened with sega's first party games like Sonic or Shinobi. I haven't heard anything about sega running developers into the ground and such though I don't really pay much attention to what sega does.

 

[Raapys]

Eww, combat in ME was horrible.

Difference between Max Payne using bullet-time and AP using it is that MP did it well, while AP's will probably suck. We'll see, though.

 

[sportforredneck]

Difference between Max Payne using bullet-time and AP using it is that MP did it well, while AP's will probably suck. We'll see, though.

Let's all just quickly assume the game will suck. That makes perfect sense.

 

[Raapys]

Difference between Max Payne using bullet-time and AP using it is that MP did it well, while AP's will probably suck. We'll see, though.

Let's all just quickly assume the game will suck. That makes perfect sense.

Well, the game doesn't really sound great, but I was just talking about the bullet-time part.

I just can't see Bioware doing such an 'action game' feature well, considering the previous games they've made. Just like I can't see Bethesda doing a good shooter game, which is why I expect at least the action part of Fallout3 to suck.

 

[sportforredneck]

I just can't see Bioware doing such an 'action game' feature well, considering the previous games they've made. Just like I can't see Bethesda doing a good shooter game, which is why I expect at least the action part of Fallout3 to suck.

Because it's Obsidian doing it....

Plus there is nothing wrong with this:

Obsidian has also indicated that dialogue will not be repeatable, so that players will not be able to simply repeat dialogues over and over until the result is favorable to them.

 

[Fat Dragon]

Eww, combat in ME was horrible.

No.

Difference between Max Payne using bullet-time and AP using it is that MP did it well, while AP's will probably suck. We'll see, though.

Completely missed my point.

 

[Edward_R_Murrow]

And an RPG it is. There've been a few previews made that list examples of some c&c in AP. That said, it was made clear from the very beginning that this wouldn't be an rpg aimed at people like those here at the Codex. Doesn't make it a bad rpg though. Some of us don't require an rpg to be super deep in order to enjoy it.

But that's the same kind of rationalization made by many of the Bethesda apologists when Pete spouts something similar about Fallout 3, or like he did with Oblivion. I'm just a little disappointed when Obsidian pulls PR moves out of Bethesda's playbook.

Lulz. Pretty much every action rpg has over-the-top attack abilities like that. It's not that surprising and it's no big deal.

It seems silly, but worse yet, like a poorly designed mechanic. I can totally accept goofiness if it flows well with gameplay or seems to contribute interesting interactions, but this just seems dumb and uninspired. It seems like Obsidian made the choice to have a goofy-themed spy game as opposed to a gritty, serious one so they could throw in these cheap and generic elements instead of making something new and interesting because they don't have the ability to make anything better than generic, mediocre stuff. This isn't so much that they're incompetent, just not up to task on action games. Would you expect a professional chef to deal with a hostage situation? Would you expect a LAPD negotiator to prepare puffer-fish perfectly? Why would anyone expect an RPG company to do anything but mediocre on an action game?

Would Max Payne have been as fun without bullet time and its over-the-top maneuvers?

Uhhhh....this ones a bit out of left field as the situations are completely different. The developers of Max Payne had action game experience and brought a fresh, new gameplay element at the time with their game. Obsidian has no action game experience and seems to be drawing from a pool of generic action mechanics instead of creating interesting ones.

That's pretty much the truth.

Exaggerated. We've heard a few examples of choices and multiple solutions and heard a whole lot about combat, sex scenes, bagging all the women, and a bunch of handholding things to soften consequences.

You're kidding, right? No experience? It's a fucking RPG, which Obsidian (especially its former Black Isle members) have plenty experience.

Action-RPG. Big difference. And so far for all the Black Isle talent, we've gotten a decent game in KOTOR 2, a terrible borefest in NWN2 OC, and two good expansions. Sorry if I doubt their cred a little. They may be the "good ol' boys", but they have families and bills to pay just like Bethesda.

Third person action gameplay? Bioware didn't have much experience designing a similar system but their Mass Effect turned out alright.

Yes, but Bioware had previous experience in Jade Empire for action elements and used that title as their foray into things. It turned out the action elements were pretty awful because it was most of the team's first time doing something like that while they had traditionally just done D20 stuff. And I guess they learned from their mistakes.

Obsidian has.....not much going for them. I expect a trainwreck like Jade Empire. They are Bioware's little brother after all and love to follow in their footsteps.

And of course they're going to say their game is the shit.

Fair enough.

That's pretty much only happened with sega's first party games like Sonic or Shinobi. I haven't heard anything about sega running developers into the ground and such though I don't really pay much attention to what sega does.

Eh, Shinobi and taking out Overworks afterwards is probably the biggest example next to Sonic and whoever they pawn it off on. FROM got shafted pretty hard working with them on Chromehounds. The Condemned sequel apparently went poorly due to publishing issues. Sega also loves shoving out crappy movie tie-ins now as well. They're just not all that great. They shovel lots of mediocrity out, and not nearly enough good stuff. And when something good happens, they take it all away and replace it with mind numbing drivel that spends no time on design and all the time animating some ninja chick's ass.

Maybe I'm just butthurt about Nightshade.

 

[RK47]

I wouldn't mind playing Mass Effect in this sort of setting. I just hope all the town to town actions would have inter-connected consequences unlike Mass Effect self contained planetary crisis.

I always wondered why Shepard never dual wield pistols no matter how many points I've placed in it. Just glad they put that in here. It should be obvious by now they're not aiming for realism in Alpha Protocol, if you wanna keep bitchin about it, then go ahead. I just hope the shooter element is as good as Max Payne.

 

[Fat Dragon]

But that's the same kind of rationalization made by many of the Bethesda apologists when Pete spouts something similar about Fallout 3, or like he did with Oblivion. I'm just a little disappointed when Obsidian pulls PR moves out of Bethesda's playbook.

Not really. Bethesda's been hyping their game up like it's a hardcore role playing like like its predecessors though anybody with some ounce of intelligence can clearly see that it's not.

With AP the devs have pretty much declared from the beginning that it's going to be an action rpg with some similarities to Mass Effect and aimed at the type of gamers I mentioned. That is enough for anybody (well, the ones here at the codex) to realize that this probably won't be their kind of rpg. They haven't really tried to pass it off as some hardcore rpg like the ones of old. People complaining about AP not being as deep as something like say Fallout or even MotB clearly haven't read up on AP much.

It seems silly, but worse yet, like a poorly designed mechanic. I can totally accept goofiness if it flows well with gameplay or seems to contribute interesting interactions, but this just seems dumb and uninspired. It seems like Obsidian made the choice to have a goofy-themed spy game as opposed to a gritty, serious one so they could throw in these cheap and generic elements instead of making something new and interesting because they don't have the ability to make anything better than generic, mediocre stuff. This isn't so much that they're incompetent, just not up to task on action games.

I disagree. I haven't gotten that impression of AP at all. Goofy? Not really. It does have some over-the-top abilities apparently, but so did games like Max Payne or God of War which take themselves pretty seriously. Their just trying to add that Hollywood cinematic flair to their game, which if done right can be pretty cool. Adding just because they're uncreative? It seems to me they're just adding in some gameplay elements that can be pretty fun if done right to help enhance gameplay. Whether Obsidian does it right remains to be seen but I have faith in them.

Would you expect a professional chef to deal with a hostage situation? Would you expect a LAPD negotiator to prepare puffer-fish perfectly? Why would anyone expect an RPG company to do anything but mediocre on an action game?

Not exactly the best analogies you could have used. Of course a chef couldn't handle hostages anywhere nearly as well as a trained peace keeper because he has absolutely no experience in that area. Now, AP is still an rpg. Whether or not the combat turns out good, who knows? But Obsidian does indeed have the talent to make some good role playing and dialog options. And last I checked a poor combat system doesn't stop an rpg for being really good. At least that's what Arcanum says. That said, I think the combat will turn out great. I'm personally looking forward to the stealth play.

But yeah, I see where you're coming from.

Uhhhh....this ones a bit out of left field as the situations are completely different. The developers of Max Payne had action game experience and brought a fresh, new gameplay element at the time with their game. Obsidian has no action game experience and seems to be drawing from a pool of generic action mechanics instead of creating interesting ones.

You misunderstood what I was implying. You stated as one of your reasons for AP being a crappy game was because of gameplay elements that don't really make sense in context of the sotry/setting/etc. I mentioned Max Payne bc that is a game that does the same thing, but it turned out great. It could be the same cas with AP.

Exaggerated. We've heard a few examples of choices and multiple solutions and heard a whole lot about combat, sex scenes, bagging all the women, and a bunch of handholding things to soften consequences.

Handholding? Maybe I missed up on a preview or two where it mentions some sort of handholding? Unless you're referring to when the devs stated that the player won't be punished for his choices? I don't see how that's handholding since instead of being punished (such as a quest failure like a few of Fallout's quests for example) it would instead open up a completely different branch of content, increasing replay value.

Action-RPG. Big difference. And so far for all the Black Isle talent, we've gotten a decent game in KOTOR 2, a terrible borefest in NWN2 OC, and two good expansions. Sorry if I doubt their cred a little. They may be the "good ol' boys", but they have families and bills to pay just like Bethesda.

Understandable. Personally though, if Bioware can make a good action RPG (well, I thought ME was good at least) then I have a lot of faith that Obsidian could pull it off since I view them in higher regard than Bioware.

Yes, but Bioware had previous experience in Jade Empire for action elements and used that title as their foray into things. It turned out the action elements were pretty awful because it was most of the team's first time doing something like that while they had traditionally just done D20 stuff. And I guess they learned from their mistakes.

I don't really see how their experience with Jade Empire could have helped them with Mass Effect. Both were indeed real-time but the combat styles were very different. How does a game with a very simple beat-em-up system help you design a game with tactical TPS combat?

Eh, Shinobi and taking out Overworks afterwards is probably the biggest example next to Sonic and whoever they pawn it off on. FROM got shafted pretty hard working with them on Chromehounds. The Condemned sequel apparently went poorly due to publishing issues. Sega also loves shoving out crappy movie tie-ins now as well. They're just not all that great. They shovel lots of mediocrity out, and not nearly enough good stuff. And when something good happens, they take it all away and replace it with mind numbing drivel that spends no time on design and all the time animating some ninja chick's ass.

Hmm. I had no idea Sega was that bad. Still, they're no EA so at least Obsidian has a chance.

Maybe I'm just butthurt about Nightshade.

Yeah, that game was pretty terrible.

 

[Volourn]

"Eww, combat in ME was horrible."

u = dum



"I expect a trainwreck like Jade Empire"

Fool. JE's combat was pretty darn good. On top of this, BIO has had experience in action games for a long while - basically since their inception. R00fles!


"could pull it off since I view them in higher regard than Bioware."

That's because you are foolish. Outside of one awesome expansion, Obsidian has done no better than 'alright' with their games. L0LLIGAGZ!

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

50$ say this game is gonna rock and will be favorably received by the Codex. A spiritual successor to Bloodlines is coming, bitches, rejoice and thank your God.

 

[MetalCraze]

I mourn your 50$

 

[Kaiserin]

Wouldn't her tiny arms break from holding such a heavy item?

Not if she puts all her stat points in Strength.

http://www.usord.com/M60E4_USORD.html


10.2 kg (22.5 lbs), how unbearably heavy!

 

[Wyrmlord]

Guys, they are making Storm Of Zehir. And they have made MotB. Obsidian has more than given their fair share of love to their usual crowd. It doesn't hurt for them to diversify elsewhere.

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

I mourn your 50$

Cry moar plz.

 

[ricolikesrice]

...

looks and sounds really shitty so far, hopefully the aliens game is better than that.

(nothing against OE, wish more companies would split between making decent games like MOTB/SOZ for entertainment and shit games like AP for their money )

 

[Darth Roxor]

Hey, Fallout had turn-based combat, so did UFO: Enemy Unknown. How fucking unoriginal and uncreative.

 

[inwoker]

Wait, is volourn female?

 

[VonVentrue]

http://pc.ign.com/articles/901/901841p1.html

When enemies know you're around and start shooting, your combat skills can be useful for returning fire, especially if you have dual SMGs equipped. By using a bullet storm special ability, you'll briefly be awarded with unlimited ammunition to go on a limited tear, ideal for wiping out a larger group of foes.

Wait, what?...

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Looks like a great and fun game along the lines of Deus Ex and Bloodlines. I'd like to see more stealth gameplay demonstrated.

And Edward, Remedy didn't have prior action game experience before Max Payne. They only released an average racing game, Death Rally, before it.

But yeah, it's FUCKING EXTREME (TM?)

 

[Burning Bridges]

Bullet time is a 100% immersion breaker for me. And that bullet storm ability is just plain idiotic.

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

And that bullet storm ability is just plain idiotic.

It reminds me of Total Overdose, which automatically makes it a win.

 

[Lumpy]

At the very least, this probably shitty game brought the Bourne trilogy to my attention. Very nice movies. So if they keep blabbing on about how their game is inspired by that, then why don't they actually take some inspiration from it?

If they want Michael Thorton to have amazing abilities, great. But either establish from the start that he's a supah trained spy, or if you want him to be a rookie then make sure he only has super spy powers at the end.
Also, how about going for realism instead of over the top action? Like, I don't know, having to actually reload your weapon no matter how badass you are?
And most importantly, "there is no wrong decision". Fuck, the whole charm of the spy genre is making the right decisions, not killing 50 guys with one ammo clip. If you can't screw up, there's no fucking point in having decisions in the first place.
TLDR, Alpha Protocol is shit.

 

[inwoker]

I don't see this ability as something bad actually. This is spy rpg. So you must be able to play role of different spies. By choosing to use this you'll play James Bond like character that often have literally unlimited ammo in movies. At least I can see where is this feature come from.