neverwinter nights 2 is a piece of shit

[Ch1ef]

First person is not a player controllable camera.

OH WOW

 

[coldcrow]

Why the hell would I want to see the jerks composing my party? Besides fapping over blooming shoulderpads or aryan lasergun equipped eggheads, what use does an isometric camera in non-combat situations provide?

 

[Admiral jimbob]

While we're talking about nwn 1 here i would recommend a recently released community module called Prophet 2 which is EXTREMEly good(for what it is), it is the second part of a trilogy(there's also a prologue), though this module was in the making for 4 years so dont hold your breath for the final episode.

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Modules.Detail&id=6089

Fuck me, he finally released that? Cheers.

 

[AlaCarcuss]

I still don't get the intense hatred for NWN2, nor have I seen any arguments as to why it is bad other than performance issues (which I don't have) and the camera (which works fine for me). It's kind of weird, really. Are we even playing the same game?

Mate, I'm with you. I'm always gobsmacked when people go on and on about the NW2 engine. I've never had any problems with it either, on any of my machines.

Just what the fuck is wrong with the camera ffs? It has several differnet modes to choose from and you can rotate, zoom and pan anyway you like. How the hell do you make it better? Fix it in iso view and just pan around and have disappearing walls etc?

Oh of course! What am I saying? This is teh codex, that's exactly what you want. Then it'd be just like Fallout/Arcarnum now wouldn't it. Sheesh

 

[DraQ]

Can anyone point to a party based 3D RPG that had a GOOD camera?

:smugcodex: :smugcodex: :smugcodex: :smugcodex:
:smugcodex: Wizardry 8 :smugcodex:
:smugcodex: :smugcodex: :smugcodex: :smugcodex:

First person is not a player controllable camera.

Party based? Check.
3D? Check.
RPG? Check.
Good camera? Check.

Overweight Manatee being a gigantic faggot? Check.

Also, it is player (con)trollable camera - you can look around, durr.

 

[Wyrmlord]

I still don't get the intense hatred for NWN2, nor have I seen any arguments as to why it is bad other than performance issues (which I don't have) and the camera (which works fine for me). It's kind of weird, really. Are we even playing the same game?

Mate, I'm with you. I'm always gobsmacked when people go on and on about the NW2 engine. I've never had any problems with it either, on any of my machines.

Just what the fuck is wrong with the camera ffs? It has several differnet modes to choose from and you can rotate, zoom and pan anyway you like. How the hell do you make it better? Fix it in iso view and just pan around and have disappearing walls etc?

Oh of course! What am I saying? This is teh codex, that's exactly what you want. Then it'd be just like Fallout/Arcarnum now wouldn't it. Sheesh

I also want to jump in and make these same defenses of NWN2, but I realize that I have been doing so since 2007, and the game is already so old by now that it doesn't matter anyway. It's four years since the release of NWN2 already.

I hope we still aren't discussing "NWN2 is poorly optimized, I hate it" even into 2015, when we have 32 GB RAM computers and GeForce 12000 graphics cards, because by then, this discussion would only be a little more pointless than it already is now.

 

[Overweight Manatee]

Party based? Check.

Technically you have a party, but they all occupy the same point in space. You don't have to separately switch between them and move them all constantly.

3D? Check.

True

RPG? Check.

True

Good camera? Check.

Its not a player controllable camera if its simple a first person view. That's just the player controlling the character and the view being what the character sees.

My point was that it is far harder to approximate a camera that exists in isometric or similar view in 3D then it ever was for a 2D game. Especially if you want it to support other modes like over the shoulder. Point to a game that has a camera along the veins of NWN2 yet somehow manages to make it read your mind and do what you want it to do.

 

[Shannow]

Mate, I'm with you. I'm always gobsmacked when people go on and on about the NW2 engine. I've never had any problems with it either, on any of my machines.

So if it were bugs and those bugs didn't occur in your game but made it unplayable for someone else you also "wouldn't get what all the fuss is about"?
Just trying to check how empathic you are.

Just what the fuck is wrong with the camera ffs? It has several differnet modes to choose from and you can rotate, zoom and pan anyway you like. How the hell do you make it better? Fix it in iso view and just pan around and have disappearing walls etc?

This ice-cream has several different flavours: piss, vomit, shit and strawberry. Too bad I don't like strawberry
How to make it better?: *Compares NWN1's to NWN2's camera* Yes, fixed iso+panning+zoom was a lot less fiddly and thus better. But it probably doesn't work with a party. But then I didn't see anybody here claim that a NWN2 kind of camera was suited to that kind of game

Oh of course! What am I saying? This is teh codex, that's exactly what you want. Then it'd be just like Fallout/Arcarnum now wouldn't it. Sheesh

Nice going, an "ad hominem" followed by a strawman. You sure don't stoop to the "average codex level".

I also want to jump in and make these same defenses of NWN2, but I realize that I have been doing so since 2007, and the game is already so old by now that it doesn't matter anyway. It's four years since the release of NWN2 already.

I hope we still aren't discussing "NWN2 is poorly optimized, I hate it" even into 2015, when we have 32 GB RAM computers and GeForce 12000 graphics cards, because by then, this discussion would only be a little more pointless than it already is now.

If it's pointless, why participate? The engine doesn't get better just because its unoptimized condition becomes less noticable on newer computers.
Hell, I'm even one of the people who liked the game (on my first playthrough). Doesn't change the validity of most criticisms (yes, even if the game ran quite well for me, and the camera - while bothersome - didn't "ruin" the game for me).

 

[King Crispy]

Guys, I'm a little worried about racofer. His head must've asploded when reading this thread or something.

 

[DraQ]

My point was that it is far harder to approximate a camera that exists in isometric or similar view in 3D then it ever was for a 2D game.

Quit digging yourself even deeper.

2D iso is an emulation of particular, non-perspectivic 3D view that looks just the same, so you're only showcasing your ignorance here.

Also, camera in Fallout was sufficiently good, and 2D graphics is a valid choice if you have limited resources or pursue certain style and don't have anything that would actually benefit from 3D environment in your game, but hailing it's awesomeness is just retarded and hints at Molyfaux-level of senility kicking in and preventing you from remembering how wonderful scanning half of the walls in a location with little translucent blob around the PC in search of possible items (that were in plain sight of the character, but not of the player) was. Maybe you just eat so much cheeseburgers that you bleed raw lard when you cut yourself? That would explain your memory and logic failing.

 

[Overweight Manatee]

Also, camera in Fallout was sufficiently good

There was no player controllable camera in fallout, it was a fixed isometric. Try again?

Its not the view of the playing area that is important, its the fact that the player is expected to control the camera apart from a group of characters.

 

[DraQ]

Also, camera in Fallout was sufficiently good

There was no player controllable camera in fallout, it was a fixed isometric. Try again?

I didn't say "player controllable" anywhere. Try again?

Its not the view of the playing area that is important, its the fact that the player is expected to control the camera apart from a group of characters.

Well, it still beats not being able to rotate the view when trying to find an object behind the wall.

Also, play some Myth and Homeworld, and man the fuck up.

 

[Overweight Manatee]

Its not the view of the playing area that is important, its the fact that the player is expected to control the camera apart from a group of characters.

Well, it still beats not being able to rotate the view when trying to find an object behind the wall.

No doubt its better then misplacing something behind a wall. But I asked for a representation of a game that had a 3d controllable camera better that magically did what you wanted it to.

Also, play some Myth and Homeworld, and man the fuck up.

And what exactly is the difference between Homeworld's camera and NWN2's camera that makes Homeworld so much better? I can't find a difference, you pan and rotate and all that shit exactly the same as in NWN2 with a few minor control changes.

 

[DraQ]

But I asked for a representation of a game that had a 3d controllable camera better that magically did what you wanted it to.

Why not ask for something realistic for change?

Camera controls are teh hard? Learn the interface FFS.

And what exactly is the difference between Homeworld's camera and NWN2's camera that makes Homeworld so much better? I can't find a difference, you pan and rotate and all that shit exactly the same as in NWN2 with a few minor control changes.

What part of "man up" did you not get?

 

[Overweight Manatee]

And what exactly is the difference between Homeworld's camera and NWN2's camera that makes Homeworld so much better? I can't find a difference, you pan and rotate and all that shit exactly the same as in NWN2 with a few minor control changes.

What part of "man up" did you not get?

So you are saying that NWN2's camera is just fine? I agree with you. Why were you trying to imply otherwise?

 

[Sartar__]

I hope we still aren't discussing "NWN2 is poorly optimized, I hate it" even into 2015, when we have 32 GB RAM computers and GeForce 12000 graphics cards, because by then, this discussion would only be a little more pointless than it already is now.

32 GB of RAM would not make the slightest difference to NWN2. It would still be a badly designed awkward looking game.

 

[Phelot]

Part of my dislike for most of the party based RPGs out there is that you can't zoom out enough. I wish they'd use a camera like an RTS. Also, I fucking hate any game that tries to zoom in and out when you try to move the camera under a bridge or roof or something.

 

[Overweight Manatee]

Part of my dislike for most of the party based RPGs out there is that you can't zoom out enough. I wish they'd use a camera like an RTS. Also, I fucking hate any game that tries to zoom in and out when you try to move the camera under a bridge or roof or something.

Yeah, RPG's are screwed up badly with the overfocus on LOLBLOOM and 10 million pixels of detail on everything fetish. An FPS can do that because it has a relatively stable amount of things it needs to render. An RTS is likewise since they can count on the player being zoomed out a certain amount.

But for games like NWN2 and DA players simultaneously expect things to look as good as crysis when you zoom right up to a character for dialog yet you are supposed to be able to zoom out to cover a huge area of the map. This is an absolute no-no for the shitty consoles with their pathetic RAM amounts. So we have to deal with a system that doesn't really deliver on either front. DA still looks like shit, yet you can't move the camera far enough out to see someone shooting you with a bow.

 

[Suchy]

Yeah the graphics are poor and the camera is bad. Its not that big an issue. MOTB is consistently praised despite having exactly these same problems, so its cant be that big a deal for most codexers, right?

Actually I can't make myself play MOTB because of shitty controls and fucking terrible camera, ugly graphics aside.

Can anyone point to a party based 3D RPG that had a GOOD camera?

Durr hurr Fallut 3 derp derp derp
Drakensang

 

[Overweight Manatee]

Can anyone point to a party based 3D RPG that had a GOOD camera?

Durr hurr Fallut 3 derp derp derp
Drakensang

Never played it, so I will take your word. What makes it different from NWN2's?

 

[AlaCarcuss]

Yeah the graphics are poor and the camera is bad. Its not that big an issue. MOTB is consistently praised despite having exactly these same problems, so its cant be that big a deal for most codexers, right?

Actually I can't make myself play MOTB because of shitty controls and fucking terrible camera, ugly graphics aside.

Can anyone point to a party based 3D RPG that had a GOOD camera?

Durr hurr Fallut 3 derp derp derp
Drakensang

Funny how every time someone asks for an example of a 3D party based RPG camera done well, some retard answers with a FUCKING FPS example.

 

[Felix]

Can anyone point to a party based 3D RPG that had a GOOD camera?

Durr hurr Fallut 3 derp derp derp
Drakensang

Never played it, so I will take your word. What makes it different from NWN2's?

about Drakensang, I don't remember clearly but it seem to stick to character and can't pan around freely.

Never have any problem with NWN2's camera, I just use strategy mode and map WASD to pan around.

 

[Overweight Manatee]

Funny how every time someone asks for an example of a 3D party based RPG camera done well, some retard answers with a FUCKING FPS example.

Everyone knows FPS is the best camera. When was the last time you lived life in third person?

 

[circ]

Well, some people are born with a condition where their head rests against either their left or right shoulder constantly because of weak neck muscles. So they essentially see a big shoulder all the time, and in advanced stages, sometimes the back of their heads.

 

[DraQ]

Well, some people are born with a condition where their head rests against either their left or right shoulder constantly because of weak neck muscles. So they essentially see a big shoulder all the time, and in advanced stages, sometimes the back of their heads.

Some are born with even more bizarre conditions.