Most important part of an RPG

[Lemunde]

I'd prefer there be no forced combat at all. I never understood the need for combat to be such a focus.

It shouldn't be forced, but it should be good since it's the most common option.

I think that's a flaw in designers' logic more than anything. Combat is a focus due to tradition more than anything else.

Yeah, negotiating with the raging goblin and zombie hordes should definitely be an option. "I tell you what. You let us go on our merry way and you can have halfling Tomblebumble's brain." Great, I just made it sound interesting and totally blew my point.

Those same goblins and zombies are placed in the world for nothing other than cannon-fodder anyway, so it kind of negates your point. In a game where combat wouldn't be the focus, I doubt any self respecting designer would place a bunch of meaningless monsters throughout the world.

But what would an RPG be without combat? Myst? Phantasmagoria? Sorry but I just can't fathom how that wouldn't be boring as fuck. Hippies. You wanna save the world with your charisma, go sleep with the president. Leave my games alone.

 

[Humanophage]

I would be fully satisfied with a game that focuses entirely on choices and consequences, something like a collection of interlocked quizzes with numerous multiple choices; an advanced choose-your-own-adventure book. Alter Ego is a decent example of such a game, and King of Dragon Pass has notable elements of it. There were also some adventure games like Beyond the Wall of Stars, but they were too basic.

Still, it would be acceptable to sacrifice the quality of writing and the world, and to do away with a proper combat engine in favour of incorporating combat into dialogues (a la KoDP) in exchange for an extensive, well-thought out choices and consequences system through which one can define a very wide variety of characters.

 

[The Ninth Circle]

I'd prefer there be no forced combat at all. I never understood the need for combat to be such a focus.

It shouldn't be forced, but it should be good since it's the most common option.

I think that's a flaw in designers' logic more than anything. Combat is a focus due to tradition more than anything else.

Yeah, negotiating with the raging goblin and zombie hordes should definitely be an option. "I tell you what. You let us go on our merry way and you can have halfling Tomblebumble's brain." Great, I just made it sound interesting and totally blew my point.

Those same goblins and zombies are placed in the world for nothing other than cannon-fodder anyway, so it kind of negates your point. In a game where combat wouldn't be the focus, I doubt any self respecting designer would place a bunch of meaningless monsters throughout the world.

But what would an RPG be without combat? Myst? Phantasmagoria? Sorry but I just can't fathom how that wouldn't be boring as fuck. Hippies. You wanna save the world with your charisma, go sleep with the president. Leave my games alone.

So I assume that any part of an RPG that doesn't include combat must not be "true RPG"? Poor argument. Combat should always be an option, the more options the better, it's just all too often it's the only solution and we get a few quests sprinkled about with other options to make it seem like we're given control. This is a major flaw. It comes down to whether you want a combat simulator or a game that allows you to have full control over your character.

Combat is a crutch for developers. In comparison to branching storylines, quest options and reverberating consequences, combat is a piece of cake to do right. Thus it is a focus in most RPGs.

In your goblins and zombies argument, what do they serve other than XP grinding or the illusions of a challenge? I much prefer how Bloodlines handled the first portion of the game in that combat was to be averted as it gained your character no benefit (no XP from combat) and you only received XP from accomplishments. This is more logical than XP grinding and meaningless combat to unlock "spell x".

 

[Jasede]

Combat is a piece of cake to do right? I wish I lived in your dimension of many RPGs with combat done right.

 

[The Ninth Circle]

Combat is a piece of cake to do right? I wish I lived in your dimension of many RPGs with combat done right.

Out of context much? More RPGs have done combat right rather than the features I was comparing it to, do you disagree?

Your argument is the equivalent of taking the statement, "Building a house is easier in comparison to proving God is real", and saying "building a house isn't easy!". Come on..

 

[Jasede]

Why yes! Arcanum, most Ultima games, maybe Fallout, some Final Fantasy games...
I think it's definitely debatable whether most RPGs did combat right or some other part of what it means to be an RPG.

 

[The Ninth Circle]

Why yes! Arcanum, most Ultima games, maybe Fallout, some Final Fantasy games...
I think it's definitely debatable whether most RPGs did combat right or some other part of what it means to be an RPG.

Did you not like Fallout's implementation of combat?

 

[mondblut]

World exploration? Sounds like LARPing to me.

World exploration is seeking and overcoming new challenges, discovering important clues and entertaining lore, finding new loot and generally having a fun rollercoaster ride from tundras to deserts. Novelty seeking at its finest.

And LARPing is scratching one's head over a bunch of hypertext links pondering what would one's character, a (insert 3 pages of bullshit biography full of pretentious melodrama, detailed description of every pimple, and sad and desperate attempts to present stats in flowery words whilst avoiding those horrible, horrible unroleplaying numbers), say in these specific circumstances according to his Role.

 

[Joe Krow]

If they could find a way to make dialogue as tactically interesting and character dependent as combat it might provide a valid alternative.

 

[Jasede]

Why yes! Arcanum, most Ultima games, maybe Fallout, some Final Fantasy games...
I think it's definitely debatable whether most RPGs did combat right or some other part of what it means to be an RPG.

Did you not like Fallout's implementation of combat?

It was fair enough- but by golly, not the best part of Fallout. It's not really the combat system in that game that I didn't like, but the encounters. I enjoy varied encounters.
(Don't get me wrong, I will take Fallout's combat over forced RT any day. Just saying that Fallout has much stronger points than just combat.)

 

[The Ninth Circle]

Why yes! Arcanum, most Ultima games, maybe Fallout, some Final Fantasy games...
I think it's definitely debatable whether most RPGs did combat right or some other part of what it means to be an RPG.

Did you not like Fallout's implementation of combat?

It was fair enough- but by golly, not the best part of Fallout. It's not really the combat system in that game that I didn't like, but the encounters. I enjoy varied encounters.
(Don't get me wrong, I will take Fallout's combat over forced RT any day. Just saying that Fallout has much stronger points than just combat.)

It definitely wasn't it's strength, but it was a very good implementation. I guess what I'm trying to say is that even though most games fall short of excellent combat, the games that try to far and away out number those that even attempt to truly dynamic C&C.

 

[Michael Ellis]

Looking at the list of choices in the poll, it came to mind that MMORPG has all of these but meaningful C&C.

Also, when I play a MMO it always feels a little hollow. Maybe I am a megalomaniac but one thing I have always enjoyed in CRPG is the world reacting to my accomplishments and acknowledging my demigod status. Unlike in a MMO where I am just one of millions who has killed the biggest dragon. But without an "adoration" option in the poll I will have to eliminate all of the MMO choices and choose C&C : )

 

[sheek]

MMOs have no story or dialog... and combat must by definition real-time.

 

[Michael Ellis]

MMOs have no story or dialog... and combat must by definition real-time.

LOTRO was one big story and I got sick of reading the NPC dialogue and hit accept quest without reading anything.

 

[Michael Ellis]

I blame HULU for my halfass post -- watching Night Gallery : )

I agree, no gameplay affecting dialogue exists in MMORPG like in PST.

 

[Thrasher]

I found Fallout's combat unsatisfying since you couldn't control your companions. They would very frequently get themselves killed. So I didn't use them because of that. Bad design.