Game News Leaked Project Eternity WIP screenshots at GameStar.de

[felipepepe]

Those weapons on characters backs, they're actual representatives of the quick slot/secondary weapon your character have?

 

[Infinitron]

Those weapons on characters backs, they're actual representatives of the quick slot/secondary weapon your character have?

Why wouldn't they be? Let's ask Sawyer.

 

[Excidium]

The answer to that is, they wanted to make Infinity Engine-style games, and besides the nostalgia factor, those games had a bit too much "trash" combat to be fully comfortable in TB. (I put the word "trash" in quotes because I don't entirely agree with its pejorative connotations. The world needs its kobold-infested mines too.)

That's a p. dumb excuse that relies on the wrong notion that TB combat is slow.

 

[Infinitron]

The answer to that is, they wanted to make Infinity Engine-style games, and besides the nostalgia factor, those games had a bit too much "trash" combat to be fully comfortable in TB. (I put the word "trash" in quotes because I don't entirely agree with its pejorative connotations. The world needs its kobold-infested mines too.)

That's a p. dumb excuse that relies on the wrong notion that TB combat is slow.

TB combat can be slow or fast, but it naturally lends itself to combat that requires thought at every step, since the player is always asked for new input at each turn. RTwP on the other hand, can naturally fluctuate between requiring a more "active" or "passive" role from the player. For instance, it can vary between classes.

http://www.formspring.me/JESawyer/q/377213823058210236

I think that the pacing of different characters actually *should* be asynchronous because that will likely cause different tactical considerations for what those characters do in combat. I also think it would be good if players could opt to make individual characters more or less high-maintenance.

So, pick the best tool for the job, basically.

 

[Starym]

Strangely, I'm down with RTwP in PE. The clincher is the ironic fact that every other non mainstream RPG seems to be going TB these days and this would be something different. Really though, RTwP doesn't have to be the RTS modified engine clusterfuck that it was in ye olde days. It is quite possible to make a good combat system in this format and being pausable it makes it pretty close to TB anyway. The big thing is the AI of course, so that at least it doesn't do dumb shit like bow armed characters moving to melee range or the like. So long as basic things are automated reasonably well, it puts the focus in the RTwP system on the actual tactics of combat and thus makes it not unlike a more dynamic TB.

As I've mentioned in the ginormo-thread, I think the slow motion option could be the prevalent way to play, instead of pause. Depends on how it's implemented, of course, but to me it seems to have a lot of potential (I keep imagining playing SC2 on a pro Korean level, except everything is at 10x slower speed so you don't need 12932193812 APM. Perhaps not the best comparison but you get what I mean). So, RTwSM, basically.

 

[Infinitron]

Starym Yes. RTwP was a disaster for a lot of TB players because it was hard to shake the feeling that the pause was meant to be analogous to the "pause" between turns in a turn-based game. In reality, the pause is best used as a way to slow down combat selectively, not as a way do somehow divide it into discrete quanta. And slow motion controls will be obviously be much more effective for that purpose.

 

[Excidium]

Looks way too zoomed in.

That's because they are.

 

[skallagrim]

Strangely, I'm down with RTwP in PE. The clincher is the ironic fact that every other non mainstream RPG seems to be going TB these days and this would be something different. Really though, RTwP doesn't have to be the RTS modified engine clusterfuck that it was in ye olde days. It is quite possible to make a good combat system in this format and being pausable it makes it pretty close to TB anyway. The big thing is the AI of course, so that at least it doesn't do dumb shit like bow armed characters moving to melee range or the like. So long as basic things are automated reasonably well, it puts the focus in the RTwP system on the actual tactics of combat and thus makes it not unlike a more dynamic TB.

Indeed. For example, 7.62 High Caliber have RTwP and it's combat system are IMHO better than Jagged Alliance 2.

 

[RedScum]

 

[Zero Credibility]

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

Strangely, I'm down with RTwP in PE. The clincher is the ironic fact that every other non mainstream RPG seems to be going TB these days and this would be something different. Really though, RTwP doesn't have to be the RTS modified engine clusterfuck that it was in ye olde days. It is quite possible to make a good combat system in this format and being pausable it makes it pretty close to TB anyway. The big thing is the AI of course, so that at least it doesn't do dumb shit like bow armed characters moving to melee range or the like. So long as basic things are automated reasonably well, it puts the focus in the RTwP system on the actual tactics of combat and thus makes it not unlike a more dynamic TB.

I essentially agree.

Indeed. For example, 7.62 High Caliber have RTwP and it's combat system are IMHO better than Jagged Alliance 2.

OH NO, YOU DIDN'T.

 

[Zeriel]

I'm surprised there aren't more complaints about the obviously realtime 3D-rendered appearance of the characters.

Uh, Infinity Engine games had the same thing? The only one I can think of where the characters looked really good was Torment (of which I'd love to see more games try to ape that style). In BG, IWD, et cetera, they were all horribly ugly weird 3D contraptions.

Have to say, though, Project Eternity almost gives me more ToEE vibes than BG vibes. Which is a good thing. Always thought ToEE would have been a better game than Baldur's Gate if it had a proper storyline and campaign attached to it.

 

[Sensuki]

I liked the BG1 character models. BG2 was crap

 

[Zeriel]

Come again? They were (basically) the same models. Unless you mean monsters.

 

[Infinitron]

Come again? They were (basically) the same models.

They were not.

In BG, IWD, et cetera, they were all horribly ugly weird 3D contraptions.

No, they were pre-rendered in those games, much like the backgrounds.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

I'm surprised there aren't more complaints about the obviously realtime 3D-rendered appearance of the characters.

I'm totally fine with "realtime 3D-rendered appearance", generally speaking.
I'm less fine with these characters, but that's because they look like cheap crap, not because their 3D nature is so evident.
That character model we saw in the Torment preview, for instance, is equally recognizable as 3D-rendered but it looks leagues ahead of these.

 

[CappenVarra]

Come again? They were (basically) the same models. Unless you mean monsters.

Compare for example how a medium shield looks on a char in BG1 vs. BG2. In BG1, it looks like a very simple and shitty shield - but a shield nonetheless. In BG2 it looks like a crazed manta ray from a lovecraftian dimension of derp :D

 

[Infinitron]

That character model we saw in the Torment preview, for instance, is equally recognizable as 3D-rendered but it looks leagues ahead of these.

Well, remember that the Torment characters aren't "generic". They don't need to be able to be able to wear any armor and wield any weapon. So they're always going to look more polished.

Beyond that, the character in the Torment vids (the CCJ) was just a quick hack job using a canned animation, not an actual usable character in a working game. We also didn't get to see her from up close.

 

[Zeriel]

Come again? They were (basically) the same models.

They were not.

In BG, IWD, et cetera, they were all horribly ugly weird 3D contraptions.

No, they were pre-rendered in those games, much like the backgrounds.

They were pre-rendered, but either had very little touch-up, or Bioware was just really shitty at character art. Actually, the monsters and NPCs were fairly good. So it's kind of a Christmas Miracle how the PC models could be so horrific.

Come again? They were (basically) the same models. Unless you mean monsters.

Compare for example how a medium shield looks on a char in BG1 vs. BG2. In BG1, it looks like a very simple and shitty shield - but a shield nonetheless. In BG2 it looks like a crazed manta ray from a lovecraftian dimension of derp :D

It's been a while since I played both as separate installs rather than a mod, but I thought they were essentially the same base models, just some minor changes like different look on some armor/equipment, like robes for all race combinations. Were they really super different?

I remember going from BG 1 to BG 2 back when they both first came out, and I thought they reused all the same models, so it must have been lost on me.

 

[Zeriel]

That character model we saw in the Torment preview, for instance, is equally recognizable as 3D-rendered but it looks leagues ahead of these.

Well, remember that the Torment characters aren't "generic". They don't need to be able to be able to wear any armor and wield any weapon. So they're always going to look more polished.

Beyond that, the character in the Torment vids (the CCJ) was just a quick hack job using a canned animation, not an actual usable character in a working game. We also didn't get to see her from up close.

This is where I blame Bioware incompetence, actually. Go look at a game like Diablo 1, or hell, Divine Divinity, which did an even better job. They use pre-rendered characters, with dozens if not hundreds of different equipment combinations, and while it's an insane amount of work, they all look really good. Even better than 3D in a lot of cases.

 

[Infinitron]

Those weapons on characters backs, they're actual representatives of the quick slot/secondary weapon your character have?

Why wouldn't they be? Let's ask Sawyer.

http://www.formspring.me/JESawyer/q/474437436781386533

 

[AstroZombie]

Indeed. For example, 7.62 High Caliber have RTwP and it's combat system are IMHO better than Jagged Alliance 2.

Get out.

 

[Zeriel]

 

[Roguey]

This is where I blame Bioware incompetence, actually. Go look at a game like Diablo 1...They use pre-rendered characters, with dozens if not hundreds of different equipment combinations, and while it's an insane amount of work, they all look really good. Even better than 3D in a lot of cases.

The first Diablo largely used recolored variants. There's not that much unique art.

 

[Zeriel]

This is where I blame Bioware incompetence, actually. Go look at a game like Diablo 1...They use pre-rendered characters, with dozens if not hundreds of different equipment combinations, and while it's an insane amount of work, they all look really good. Even better than 3D in a lot of cases.

The first Diablo largely used recolored variants. There's not that much unique art.

It's still about equal to or more than the number of unique models that the Infinity Engine uses for player characters.