Is MotB worth it...

[spectre]

Let me draw you a picture, Xor, it was:
It is totally possible to avoid...
NOT
It is possible to totally avoid...

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Looks like you lost your argument. In order for PST to have 'lots of shit combat', there must be a better, more pacifist game, for comparison.

hahaha what

"hey, this cake tastes like shit"

"sorry, you'll have to show me a better tasting cake. Otherwise, this one doesn't taste bad"

I'm awfully sorry, but this holds as much water as "game X is bad because I said so". A game can be bad only in comparison. Black can't exist without white, and vice versa. Logic 101

"also, it's the only food we have, so stfu, it's good...unless you show me a better cake"

"but it still tastes like s-"

"STFU"

 

[Erebus]

At least Avellone has the honesty to admit that the game wasn't really all that deep and pretty light compared to most fantasy novels.

If he actually said this, it only suggests that he hasn't read a lot of fantasy novels or that he's been amazingly lucky in his picks.
That being said, it's a mistake to compare Torment to a novel. It's a computer game, it doesn't work the same way, even with regards to the scenario.

 

[MetalCraze]

First, it's entirely optional.

So what? As it appears almost all content in PS:T is entirely optional if you will be a fag and speedrun it.

Second, if you set the dungeon on hard, the combat is actually quite challenging.

And? It is still just as shitty except you spend more time suffering.

Do you know that you can use Annah to sneak past an area with enemies? Or you can make a thief TNO for the same purpose as well.

Or what if I don't have Annah in my party and TNO isn't a thief? You know not just out of preference but because a whole beginning of the game is like that.

The thugs are so weak, they're never a problem.

For a peaceful solution right?

Not to mention that it's extremely easy to outrun them.

So tell me how did you outrun them in the Valley where you have a specific objective (and no choice but) to wipe them out. Ah but you can just run past the area!
Hey do you know that Oblivion is a non-linear pacifist game? You can just pick a shitty quest full of shitty combat or run past it. You can also outrun monsters.

'Favors' != 'guarantees'.

No I still want to hear how exactly PS:T favors pacifist solutions in all those locations I've named which are every single location besides Sigil and even then Sigil is full of combat as is already proven (but lol the combat there is easy it doesn't count bro)

Are you seriously insisting that comparing a story-driven game to a dungeon crawler is in any way reasonable? Can you compare a motorcycle to a car just because 'they both run on gasoline'?

Yes - I can compare speed and performance. I don't compare non-combat parts of PS:T and ToEE. And no - just because PS:T has more text than ToEE doesn't excuse it having an overabundance of shitty combat.

BTW you asked me to name a more pacifist game - very well it's Morrowind. You can just run to the red mountain, get a hammer and then kill Dagoth Ur. See - you have to kill only one guy.

 

[Dumb Bitch]

Clockwork Knight,
You can't judge something if you don't know any better/worse. This should be obvious. E.g. if you're not familiar with French wine, you can't say that one particular bottle is bad.

Do you know that you can use Annah to sneak past an area with enemies? Or you can make a thief TNO for the same purpose as well.

Or what if I don't have Annah in my party and TNO isn't a thief? You know not just out of preference but because a whole beginning of the game is like that.

The encounters at the beginning of the game should only cause you problems if you have some serious issues with hand-eye coordination.

Not to mention that it's extremely easy to outrun them.

So tell me how did you outrun them in the Valley where you have a specific objective (and no choice but) to wipe them out. Ah but you can just run past the area!
Hey do you know that Oblivion is a non-linear pacifist game? You can just pick a shitty quest full of shitty combat or run past it. You can also outrun monsters.

You can talk to a girl and she shows you a secret door, so you can bypass the area.

'Favors' != 'guarantees'.

No I still want to hear how exactly PS:T favors pacifist solutions in all those locations I've named which are every single location besides Sigil and even then Sigil is full of combat as is already proven (but lol the combat there is easy it doesn't count bro)

Well, you already missed the solution above. I guess, your dislike of the game is evident from your poor English skills. If you end up skipping the dialog just because you can't comprehend it, it isn't the game's fault.

Are you seriously insisting that comparing a story-driven game to a dungeon crawler is in any way reasonable? Can you compare a motorcycle to a car just because 'they both run on gasoline'?

Yes - I can compare speed and performance. I don't compare non-combat parts of PS:T and ToEE. And no - just because PS:T has more text than ToEE doesn't excuse it having an overabundance of shitty combat.

Well, this pretty much invalidates all your arguments. If you can't see obvious differences between the subgenres, then I can't help you.

BTW you asked me to name a more pacifist game - very well it's Morrowind. You can just run to the red mountain, get a hammer and then kill Dagoth Ur. See - you have to kill only one guy.

Spew more nonsense? Oh, well.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Clockwork Knight,
You can't judge something if you don't know any better/worse. This should be obvious. E.g. if you're not familiar with French wine, you can't say that one particular bottle is bad.

Yes, I can, I just won't be able to make comparisons, which are nice for a review but not necessary for it to be useful (lets say I play FIFA 10; it would be nice if I could tell how it improved on FIFA 09, but playing the game alone is enough to know if it's a good soccer game or not)

I put the vine in my mouth, and if tastes bad, that's it. It doesn't matter if the others taste better / worse.

PST combat is horrendous and often forced (like the thugs, for an early game example. I was often killing guys that approached me for no reason, which made me wonder if the lady of pain wouldn't come out of a corner and kill me for leaving a trail of corpses behind me). The codex has an unhealthy worshipping relation with the game and even it agrees on the combat being the unholy spawn of satan

BTW you asked me to name a more pacifist game - very well it's Morrowind. You can just run to the red mountain, get a hammer and then kill Dagoth Ur. See - you have to kill only one guy.

Spew more nonsense? Oh, well.

A speedrun on youtube shows the player killing maybe 3 or 4 people, not including Dagoth ur. Two of them were only to get their loot for speedrun purposes (storeowner for scrolls, and the dude with the speed boots). You just need to kill the dudes that own sunder and keening then proceed to Dags. Maybe that Malag Volar (or something) dremora guy, too.

 

[Dumb Bitch]

Clockwork Knight,
You can't judge something if you don't know any better/worse. This should be obvious. E.g. if you're not familiar with French wine, you can't say that one particular bottle is bad.

Yes, I can. I put the vine in my mouth, and if tastes bad, that's it. It doesn't matter if the others taste better / worse.

Very well. But what if this bottle is in fact of highly acclaimed brand? Talk about making uninformed opinions.

PST combat is horrendous and often forced (like the thugs, for an early game example. I was often killing guys that approached me for no reason, which made me wonder if the lady of pain wouldn't come out of a corner and kill me for leaving a trail of corpses behind me).

They're there to keep you on your toes. They make the setting of a city full of criminals and low-lifes a tad bit more believable.

 

[MetalCraze]

The encounters at the beginning of the game should only cause you problems if you have some serious issues with hand-eye coordination.

Issues like combat being too shitty and boring? I don't complain about difficulty ffs.

You can talk to a girl and she shows you a secret door, so you can bypass the area.

No moron I asked you multiple times how can you solve it in a pacifist way without skipping content.
Oh and I imagine there is some girl that will let me skip Baator and Carceri too!

Well, you already missed the solution above. I guess, your dislike of the game is evident from your poor English skills. If you end up skipping the dialog just because you can't comprehend it, it isn't the game's fault.

Haha oh wow. So you can't answer how exactly the game favors pacifist solutions? And where they are in all of those locations?

Well, this pretty much invalidates all your arguments. If you can't see obvious differences between the subgenres, then I can't help you.

So I can't compare ToEE and PS:T combats even considering that both of them are party-based DnD and are based on the exactly same mechanics just because in PS:T you read more text? Codex should close registrations forever before more next-gen retards will jump in.

Spew more nonsense? Oh, well.

There is a 11 minute video on YouTube that proves that you can do that in Morrowind. See Morrowind is even more pacifist than PS:T if we'll go by your logic "oh but you can just run past it!1"

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Very well. But what if this bottle in fact of highly acclaimed brand?

Then it magically tastes better?

"ugh, this tastes horrible"

"it's actually XXXX vintage"

"oh, nevermind then, it's delicious"

Talk about making uninformed opinions

 

[Dumb Bitch]

You can talk to a girl and she shows you a secret door, so you can bypass the area.

No moron I asked you multiple times how can you solve it in a pacifist way without skipping content.

Bypassing a room full of enemies via dialog is now 'skipping content'? Very well, what would be your example of a pacifist solution?

Well, you already missed the solution above. I guess, your dislike of the game is evident from your poor English skills. If you end up skipping the dialog just because you can't comprehend it, it isn't the game's fault.

Haha oh wow. So you can't answer how exactly the game favors pacifist solutions? And where they are in all of those locations?

Reading a walkthrough may help. Also, I've already said that 'favors' != 'guarantees' (I suggest you look up the meanings in a dictionary). You can't have a pacifist solution for every situation.

Well, this pretty much invalidates all your arguments. If you can't see obvious differences between the subgenres, then I can't help you.

So I can't compare ToEE and PS:T combats even considering that both of them are party-based DnD and are based on the exactly same mechanics just because in PS:T you read more text? Codex should close registrations forever before more next-gen retards will jump in.

Both motorcycles and cars have wheels and internal combustion engines. Now what?

 

[SerratedBiz]

Dumb Bitch wrote:
Very well. But what if this bottle in fact of highly acclaimed brand?


Then it magically tastes better?

"ugh, this tastes horrible"

"it's actually XXXX vintage"

"oh, nevermind then, it's delicious"

Sounds like something a dumb bitch would do, actually.

 

[Dumb Bitch]

Then it magically tastes better?

No, that means you should go back to drinking beer.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Then it magically tastes better?

No, that means you should go back to drinking beer.

or maybe they could make better wine, I dunno

 

[Dumb Bitch]

Then it magically tastes better?

No, that means you should go back to drinking beer.

or maybe they could make better wine, I dunno

Better for you? You see, you weren't the target audience in the first place.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Better for you? You see, you weren't the target audience in the first place.

Didn't know there was a target audience for bad wine / combat

oh well there ARE crazy fetishes out there, shouldn't be surprised

ANYWAY

skyway's point was that the combat is shit and often forced, not that the game itself was shit. He likes the damn thing, just not how it was executed. Me too, btw

 

[Dumb Bitch]

Better for you? You see, you weren't the target audience in the first place.

Didn't know there was a target audience for bad wine / combat

oh well there ARE crazy fetishes out there, shouldn't be surprised

Well, some wines have rather 'unconventional' tastes, so, yes, they may taste 'bad' to a person unfamiliar with French wine.

Cheese would be an even better example. Some brands smell like dirty socks.

ANYWAY

skyway's point was that the combat is shit and often forced, not that the game itself was shit. He likes the damn thing, just not how it was executed. Me too, btw

Skyway seems to think that many instances of the word 'shit' make his posts more credible.

 

[Azrael the cat]

At least Avellone has the honesty to admit that the game wasn't really all that deep and pretty light compared to most fantasy novels.

If he actually said this, it only suggests that he hasn't read a lot of fantasy novels or that he's been amazingly lucky in his picks.
That being said, it's a mistake to compare Torment to a novel. It's a computer game, it doesn't work the same way, even with regards to the scenario.

Actually I remember reading that quote. It wasn't 'most' fantasy novels. His comment was more along the lines of 'The people saying that PS:T is deep should really check out some of the better fantasy writings available. Some of those are really quite amazing. Most of the thematic content from PS:T was taken from existing novels which are far more thematically complex and interesting.'

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Thing is, the codex isn't unfamiliar with crpg combat, so the analogy doesn't work

 

[Dumb Bitch]

Thing is, the codex isn't unfamiliar with crpg combat, so the analogy doesn't work

This skyway guy definitely gives me an impression that he came here straight from GameFAQs.

If you can't appreciate a story-driven game with intricate dialogs, then you won't appreciate Torment. Skipping dialogs (which are the bulk of the game) and saying that the rest is 'bad bad bad' is just silly.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Skyway appreciates the story and dialogues. He complains about the combat and the need to skip areas in order to avoid combat. Also, the combat itself (which is why he says the game should've been an adventure from the beginning), which is an opinion shared by others here

 

[Gay-Lussac]

Dumb bitch whose alt are you?

 

[Dumb Bitch]

Skyway appreciates the story and dialogues.

I strongly doubt it, given his uninformed arguments and poor language skills.

 

[Trithne]

Where are you getting 'poor language skills' from? For being Eastern European, his English is pretty damn flawless. And, for once, I agree with Skyway

PS:T combat sucks. JRPGs have better combat. Saying you can just avoid combat doesn't change the fact that it sucks. It also doesn't make the game pacifist. A pacifist game is one where there's no combat, or one where combat is actively discouraged. PS:T spams combat at you for no good reason all the damn time.

Also, requests for a more pacifistic RPG were made and no-one brought up Fallout? Which you actually CAN complete without killing anyone? Mind you, even there you have to run away from crazed enemies out for your blood.

 

[BLOBERT]

BRO LIKE SKYWAY SAID JUST STAY AWAY FROM THIS CONSOLETARD PEECE OF SHIT UNLESS YOU ARE BRIANDEAD

 

[Trithne]

I love Blobert. I'm going to name my second-born after you.