Is KoToR worth playing?

[Turjan]

... and when you gaze long into the EU, the EU also gazes into you.

 

[anus_pounder]

So I'm about 60% through KotOR comic. I like the idea behind it, but good lord. The writing is either decent or banal-shit-boring. I hate to be a grafix whore, but the art style is also all over the place. It ranges from half-decent to shit.

Spoiler

Someone please tell me why Shaggy from Scooby Doo's younger brother is a protagonist in SW EU? Also, wtf is going on with those chins?

 

[yes plz]

I remember trying to get into the Legacy comic, since it was written by John Ostrander, but couldn't get past how much it read like a juvenile power fantasy, with Cade Skywalker being the coolest most awesomest badassest Jedi/bounty hunter who ever existed in the Star Wars universe and who all the women wanted and who was the most powerfulest Force user EVAR!!!111.

 

[deuxhero]

Even fucking Yaddle.

I actually liked Yaddle's backstory (she's the member of the council of the same species as Yoda right?) : Get imprisoned for many human life times and spend the time meditating on The Force before finally breaking out with this vast knowledge is actually a pretty good back story for a "spiritual" character.

 

[Rod Rodderson]

I actually liked Yaddle's backstory (she's the member of the council of the same species as Yoda right?) : Get imprisoned for many human life times and spend the time meditating on The Force before finally breaking out with this vast knowledge is actually a pretty good back story for a "spiritual" character.

I was more referring to the fact that she was one of the most lazily designed and utterly pointless characters in TPM (Yoda with a full, luxuriant head of hair!). It just felt like it made Yoda less unique, with no payoff whatsoever, but that's hardly the greatest crime against his character in those films. (Also she looks so, so stupid.) I don't have anything in particular against her story and all that, I just don't like her in general.

But maybe that's just a bit of irrational hatred on my part. I reserve the right to do that every so often. It's therapeutic.

 

[deuxhero]

That I can agree with though.

 

[Dreaad]

I always thought there was no most powerful sith or jedi... that it was kind of a day to day thing, like the force was in control of both the sith and jedi. One tries to control it and gets controlled, the other listned to what it says and thus gets controlled. Power is sort of based on whether or not the force supported you at that exact moment.

 

[sea]

I always thought there was no most powerful sith or jedi... that it was kind of a day to day thing, like the force was in control of both the sith and jedi. One tries to control it and gets controlled, the other listned to what it says and thus gets controlled. Power is sort of based on whether or not the force supported you at that exact moment.

Fuck that. George Lucas himself doesn't seem to know whether the Force serves people or whether it guides them. I guess it's whatever the story needs it to be!

 

[Turjan]

Fuck that. George Lucas himself doesn't seem to know whether the Force serves people or whether it guides them. I guess it's whatever the story needs it to be!

Indeed. The Star Wars universe is a huge incohesive mess. When we are going for a pnp game, I try to make sure up front that we are all on the same page. In principle, I still have a soft spot for these tramp freighter campaigns, like they were common in the WEG era. The force works best used sparingly. YMMV, and all that.

 

[Jick Magger]

It's really strange reading The Thrawn trilogy, where it's repeatedly emphasized that Luke really is the last of the Jedi, and the resurfacing of a former Jedi Master (who is quickly revealed to be a crazy clone, and thus a phony) is treated as a big fucking deal, and then reading over EU stuff and learning that it didn't really fucking matter because there are literally dozens of Jedi Masters in hiding who'd probably be willing to jump-start things if they felt like it.

 

[deuxhero]

Really? I know of a bunch of survivors, but all of them were (eventually) crazy, dark side (generally combined with the first), or didn't last past the Battle of Endor.

 

[tuluse]

Something that always tickles me is how Star Wars EU is basically the only fictional universe where the video game stories are less retarded than the novels.

 

[Jick Magger]

Really? I know of a bunch of survivors, but all of them were (eventually) crazy, dark side (generally combined with the first), or didn't last past the Battle of Endor.

The Thrawn Trilogy was one of the first entries into the EU proper (besides a couple of non-canon spinoff novels and board games released earlier), so I don't know if the characters you mentioned were conceived before or after.

EDIT: Sorry, misread your comment. I'm going to spend some time in the shame corner now.

 

[Turjan]

Something that always tickles me is how Star Wars EU is basically the only fictional universe where the video game stories are less retarded than the novels.

I guess you never read a TES novel...

 

[anus_pounder]

Something that always tickles me is how Star Wars EU is basically the only fictional universe where the video game stories are less retarded than the novels.

I guess you never read a TES novel...

Thats a thing?

 

[Turjan]

Something that always tickles me is how Star Wars EU is basically the only fictional universe where the video game stories are less retarded than the novels.

I guess you never read a TES novel...

Thats a thing?

There's two at the moment, I think. As some eager fans put much effort in re-telling the whole plot of the first book on Wikipedia here, you can get an idea of its "awesomeness". It seems nobody made that effort for the second one.

 

[DemonKing]

The Thrawn Trilogy was one of the first entries into the EU proper (besides a couple of non-canon spinoff novels and board games released earlier), so I don't know if the characters you mentioned were conceived before or after.

Well I hate to disagree there young man - given that in the late 70s I was reading non-canon comics being released by Marvel.

Back then Jabba the Hutt looked like this:

Wish I'd kept that issue - it might be worth something now!

 

[Nadosh]

Something that always tickles me is how Star Wars EU is basically the only fictional universe where the video game stories are less retarded than the novels.

I guess you never read a TES novel...

Thats a thing?

There's two at the moment, I think. As some eager fans put much effort in re-telling the whole plot of the first book on Wikipedia here, you can get an idea of its "awesomeness". It seems nobody made that effort for the second one.

It can't be worse than that TOR novel in which they killed the exile and Revan got his ass kicked... right? *Reads Wikipedia article* what the...

 

[Akratus]

"Annaïg Hoïnart, a seventeen-year-old Breton girl, and her Argonian friend Mere-Glim, drinking her father's wine after a night of adventure, talked about the spreading rumors of Umbriel, the flying city. Though her father Taig tried to have her taken to Leyawiin, she used her magical bird Coo to bring Glim to her rescue."

 

[anus_pounder]

WTF?

 

[oscar]

I have no idea how people could be even vaguely interested in Star Wars "lore" or an EU.

The original films were great as an accessible (stuff for the kids, stuff for young adults and teenagers, and novel and well-shot enough so as to not totally bore adults) and light-hearted story with some pseudo-Eastern fortune cookie philosophy and interesting-looking aliens.

The very strength of them was that they "showed not told". Who in their right mind wants to read a 250 page story about 'flying dude with the jetpack' or the senatorial career of 'that sinister old dude with the cool voice who shoots lightning at Luke'. It's far more effective to leave things like that to the imagination than ruin it by trying to give us the minutiae of Darth Vader's teenage trials and tribulations or who Obi Wan fell in love with.

Leave one-dimensional characters as one-dimensional rather than inventing some elaborate and, ultimately, pointless backstory. It's like someone turning up to a PnP with a 14-page backstory for their barbarian. No one cares. Drop us a few hints and visual cues ('he is unusually well-spoken and groomed compared to the typical savage' or 'his many scars and permanently-suspicious gaze betray a man who has seen much violence and hardship) for people's own imaginations to work upon rather than giving us some Mary Sue-ish fanfic about how awesome, unique and special a snowflake this person is.

Trying to add 'depth' to Star Wars is aspergeic as there simply isn't much there in the first place. Sure people like MCA experimented with 'intellectualising' things but at the end of the day you can only stretch that so far (not very far at all) before the fabric tears. They're children's movies for Pete's sake (good ones granted). EU writers clinging to the teat of Star Wars ought to grow some balls and (if they had the creativity what I sorely doubt) tell their own stories in their own settings rather than writing babbling fanfic about 'guy we saw six seconds of in the films #17'.

 

[Nadosh]

snip

While the characters were indeed somewhat one-dimensional, the universe was not. Even in the original Star Wars, names such as 'The Old Republic' and 'the Clone Wars' made the universe have serious potential for spin-offs (read MORE MONEYS) and prequels/sequels to the movies themselves.

 

[Dreaad]

I have no idea how people could be even vaguely interested in Star Wars "lore" or an EU.

The original films were great as an accessible (stuff for the kids, stuff for young adults and teenagers, and novel and well-shot enough so as to not totally bore adults) and light-hearted story with some pseudo-Eastern fortune cookie philosophy and interesting-looking aliens.

The very strength of them was that they "showed not told". Who in their right mind wants to read a 250 page story about 'flying dude with the jetpack' or the senatorial career of 'that sinister old dude with the cool voice who shoots lightning at Luke'. It's far more effective to leave things like that to the imagination than ruin it by trying to give us the minutiae of Darth Vader's teenage trials and tribulations or who Obi Wan fell in love with.

Leave one-dimensional characters as one-dimensional rather than inventing some elaborate and, ultimately, pointless backstory. It's like someone turning up to a PnP with a 14-page backstory for their barbarian. No one cares. Drop us a few hints and visual cues ('he is unusually well-spoken and groomed compared to the typical savage' or 'his many scars and permanently-suspicious gaze betray a man who has seen much violence and hardship) for people's own imaginations to work upon rather than giving us some Mary Sue-ish fanfic about how awesome, unique and special a snowflake this person is.

Trying to add 'depth' to Star Wars is aspergeic as there simply isn't much there in the first place. Sure people like MCA experimented with 'intellectualising' things but at the end of the day you can only stretch that so far (not very far at all) before the fabric tears. They're children's movies for Pete's sake (good ones granted). EU writers clinging to the teat of Star Wars ought to grow some balls and (if they had the creativity what I sorely doubt) tell their own stories in their own settings rather than writing babbling fanfic about 'guy we saw six seconds of in the films #17'.

Can't say I agree. There's no harm in enjoying a universe/world, thus wanting more stories told for that universe/world. Imagination is great, but your not going to sit down for 20+ hours imagining what luke did after beating the emperor... unless you are writing it down, in which case you might as well share your work. If you aren't interested in the said universe/world you are not required by law to partake so meh *shrugs*.

 

[Wyrmlord]

Much like the Adventurer's Mart in BG2, you've got this one planet, Yavin, for the best items in the game.

There, you can get two Baragwin Assault Blades, a Heavy Exoskeleton, Dominator Gauntlets and other stuff.

So basically, a Soldier/Guardian character with 36 STR (from items and buffs) can combine all of them to do 70-100 points of damage with each attack. Which is way way more than what you can get from the most heavily upgraded lightsaber you can make.

There is a special pleasure to having some ordinary swashbuckling Republic officer in full tactical gear take down those fancy lightsaber wielding Jedi and Sith Lords with ease.

 

[Borelli]

So i just finished KOTOR1 for the first time in my life.
The game is so standard, from the companions to the "collect 4 thingies to advance the plot" i can't help but think it was made on an assembly line. I still enjoyed it though, normally the forced EPICNESS and black vs white conflict would be a minus but hey it's Star Wars. Consequentially, "hey it's Star Wars" was the main reason i played this game from the start to the finish.

The game using d20 was ... weird for me to say the least. It is great luck that one handed lightsabers have inbuilt weapon finesse because if they were all STR based like the double bladed version i would be majorly pissed off. Critical strike being an activeable attack instead of passive bonus made me mad. I do like the fact that you are playing a fighter/mage, something which in d&d games rarely works.

So apparently there are ordinary swords which are able to parry lightsabers because special metal. If that kind of sword was one of a kind and they gave it to a unique character, let's say a mercenary it would be cool seeing ordinary guy beating jedis with it. But EVERY random guy and shop having them sounds like a contrived way to make the non-jedis be able to stand up to jedis. So despite there being cannons, hand grenades and pew pew blasters melee combat is now in fashion?

Combat is one big meh. Completely standard RTwP. Enjoyed the lightsaber animations.

Short companion overview:
Carth - meh
The robot that is not HK-47 - after the plot required reason to use him i had not used him ever since, total non character, beep beep oop oop doesn't carry much personality unless you are R2-D2
Canderous - proud warrior race to the letter
Mission - like Neeshka from NWN2 but without annoying voice
Zaalbar - hey it's a wookie! You can't hate them they are soooo cute^^
Juhani - the fact that you can persuade her to join you at Dantooine while having 0 in persuade tells me two things :
- somebody at Bioware said "we don't want 0persuaders to miss any of our precious content"
- persuading when having to choose proper answers is much more interesting than [persuade]>success
HK-47- i like his voice, the way he makes death threats while not raising the tone, meatbag meme is overused though
Bastila - i find her to be an interesting character (compared to others), probably because she is more plot important
Jolee - i often wondered why has every force user have to be either Jesus or baby eater, well Jolee is a proof that middle ground is possible, now he is still a good guy but one that isn't a stuck up always lawful good jedi

I liked the twist. I am a sucker for those "we dropped subtle hints throughout the story but you won't notice them until it's too late" twists Usual Suspects style.

Calo Nord is so awesome, i wanted to be like him when i grow up. He should not have died.

Since the jedi council never promoted me above padawan i kept using basic robes even though i had better ones in my inventory even at the boss battle. Didn't matter anyway because he had 95% to hit on me. Speaking of the devil, the inventory screen is total garbage. What's with Bioware and those damn lists? Here is a revolutionary idea, grid based inventory! If they are gonna use the party inventory (they won't do otherwise the way companions are structured) they could at least give me the option to hold the down/up arrow for fast scrolling, why must i click 5 times to reach "show usable items"? Why not make all icons for filters visible at the same time?

Overall i found the game to be ok. Just ok. On to playing KOTOR2 now!