If you're a REAL PvPer, you'll play DarkFall, nooobs.

[DarkSign]

The fantasy-style MMORPG recently sent out Clan invites to the major guilds on the forum boards in preparation for closed beta.

This is a true PvP/RvR game..much more intelligent than WoW and much more hardcore PvP than Guild Wars.

Its got city-building & seiging, a detailed crafting and economic model, as well as roleplay as a supposed main focus built into gameplay (e.g. accounts can only have one race type per server). Over 500 skills too.

http://www.darkfallonline.com

I hate ELVES but Im tempted to give this a shot.

 

[DarkSign]

The new guild leader of my once great PvP guild is doing the sidestep about signing up for DarkFall.

Fuck I hate World of Warcraft. Fucking carebear game.

 

[flabbyjack]

Beta will definitely start before 2006, but probably sooner, say October-ish.

'Screw you' to all the fanbois who have bitched about Darkfall being vapor-ware on these boards, screw you right in your vapor-holes.

Darkfall will change your stupid perceptions about what is possible in a video-game.

 

[Ryuken]

I saw a leaked video some time ago (that one when a mage enters a city and gets squashed by bunny-hopping sworddudes) which wasn't that bad.

It seems pretty hardcore but I think many people will confuse it with Dark & Light (which has some PvP too, isn't it?).

 

[LlamaGod]

how cool, bunnyhopping

 

[DarkSign]

Another video has been released (two months ago?) that showed a full city siege and it looked pretty damn good.

It's definitely going to be hardcore PvP, but they've said they wont skimp on the PvE/Storyline either.

We'll see cuz I love me some gankin.

 

[vrok]

Hype much?

For all you know this could be the worst MMO ever. That's IF it ever makes the transition from vaporware to closed beta. Very big if. In the meantime WoW is still the only MMO that's even slightly entertaining after the "free" month. It has its flaws (instanced PvP, DKs for town NPCs, raid-centric) but it took a long while for the flaws to overcome the joy and finally cause me to cancel. Only reason I played it was to PvP and the world PvP before Battlegrounds came was fantastic, both before and after the honor-patch. The gameplay mechanics and balance simply owns any other MMO when it comes to PvP. DAoC's /stick /face macro-centric gameplay is frankly a piece of shit in comparison.

So in conclusion, even if Darkfall EVER makes it to closed beta the chance that it will be better than WoW in pure gameplay mechanics, instead of a really poor Shadowbane/DAoC clone is relatively small. I don't believe in supposed alpha stage miracles and neither should you!

 

[DarkSign]

Fanboi for WoW much? Yeah Im an MMO vet and I can feel the hype..but WoW is kiddie cartoon graphics with kiddie PvP and kiddie quests.

For me, even the forum boards at Darkfall are better than the real game of WoW.

This is coming from someone who has 2 capped characters (one undead Shadow Priest and one Rogue), has been an officer in a medium sized 100+ guild that did all the high-level instances..etc.

WoW just blows.

 

[Human Shield]

I never wanted to pay to grind in games and Darkfall has enough open-mechanics to interest me, but I don't want to wait for 2 years and see a buggy, laggy mess that has fatal design flaws appear.

 

[Zomg]

Hope it has perma-death. Resurrection is soooo carebear.

I think the number one problem I have with MMORPGs is the nerf carousel that they inevitably end up getting on, particularly with regard to PvP. I've played several MMOs and it became abundantly clear that your character lives and dies on patch notes in all of them. I remember playing Anarchy Online and watching as my irreversible build strategy was utterly ruined because the devs finally remembered to implement a defense system (while I had not put a single point in it, having suspicions that it was broken). Then I played City of Heroes - nerf carousel. Then I played WoW - nerf carousel. I really wish that there were a low-investment MMO (meaning you character comes out of character creation basically fully formed, with no experience system or an extremely curtailed one, and making loot more or less disposable) with perma-death so that people wouldn't get so invested in their characters that having accidentally chosen a gimpy class or build out of ignorance ruins the game for them, thus allowing the devs to let the players balance themselves as new tactics, bugs and exploits arise and only fix the most extreme ones.

 

[Andyman Messiah]

Carebears are hardcore! Their talk of sunshine and happiness is but a front.

Anyway, thanks for the link. I hadn't heard about DarkFall, and I hope it's as good as the hype say it is.

 

[Sovy Kurosei]

You know, I already got bad vibes about that MMORPG when I looked at their world map and compared it to this map.

Will post more later. Doesn't look as "hardcore" as EVE Online though. Close but not quite.

 

[Andyman Messiah]

How clever. You compared Darkfalls map, which consists of one big continent, island, whatever, surrounded by four islands, with Morrowinds map, which is one big continent with a small island to the north and a dozen of small rocks to the east. Brilliant. Why didn't I come up with that idea?

 

[DarkSign]

Hope it has perma-death. Resurrection is soooo carebear.

I think the number one problem I have with MMORPGs is the nerf carousel that they inevitably end up getting on, particularly with regard to PvP. I've played several MMOs and it became abundantly clear that your character lives and dies on patch notes in all of them. I remember playing Anarchy Online and watching as my irreversible build strategy was utterly ruined because the devs finally remembered to implement a defense system (while I had not put a single point in it, having suspicions that it was broken). Then I played City of Heroes - nerf carousel. Then I played WoW - nerf carousel. I really wish that there were a low-investment MMO (meaning you character comes out of character creation basically fully formed, with no experience system or an extremely curtailed one, and making loot more or less disposable) with perma-death so that people wouldn't get so invested in their characters that having accidentally chosen a gimpy class or build out of ignorance ruins the game for them, thus allowing the devs to let the players balance themselves as new tactics, bugs and exploits arise and only fix the most extreme ones.

Well I dont think there will be permadeath since there will be so much death via PvP.

However I do echo your sentiments about nerfage. When we get to beta with our game (nowhere close atm) Im going to try a server where you can basically put all your points in at once and just go...instead of the skill-per-use system we have planned.

It would be cool to just make a new character, fully formed when nerfage occurs.

Im being cautiously optimistic about the game.

 

[Sovy Kurosei]

Reading a bit too deeply into a single line, aren't yah Locue? Also, how ever clever calling Morrowind "one big continent".

 

[Avé]

Yeah, a game thats not even in closed beta is DEFINITELY 100% SURELY GOING TO BE THE BEST HARDCORE PVP MMO EVER.


CERTAINLY!

 

[vrok]

Fanboi for WoW much? Yeah Im an MMO vet and I can feel the hype..but WoW is kiddie cartoon graphics with kiddie PvP and kiddie quests.

If fanboy means realizing that WoW is the most enjoyable MMO over the longest period of time, sure. I'm not very biased about it though, like I said I cancelled aswell. Still think it was better than any other MMO though. I actually hate fantasy but that doesn't mean that I can't look beyond the style and setting of a game and enjoy its gameplay. I prefer their goofed up cartoonish fantasy over normal boring fantasy anytime though. I don't think harsh death penalties adds to the game at all considering most of the people you gank get extremely angry anyway, which is the point. Corpse camping is good enough. So kiddie PvP is fine with me as long as the kids get angry when they get ganked.

Anyway, if Darkfall is any good I'll play it aswell for sure, just don't think it deserves any hype though. Not until a real person has actually played it anyway. Oh, and EVE is worse than DAoC by far when it comes to PvP.

 

[Zomg]

My best experience ever with an MORPG was in an RvR PvP MUD in the mid '90s, and in retrospect the times that it was good were defined by the periods in which the administrators of the game were absent. People rapidly became aware of the best race-class combinations, the best gear setups, and so on, but because the administrators were absent from all but the most basic operations of the game there was no reason to whine about the imbalances in some forum, since no one was listening. In that environment people that played poor builds were essentially given a handicap - there's only so much you can do with a vanilla orc, that kind of thing, and everyone knew that when a player using a bad build beat someone with a good one that the good build player should be completely humiliated. It helped that in this MUD there was no reward for playerkilling other than points on a "Top ten killers" scoreboard and full corpse looting, and since bad builds used obscure gear there was no "rich get richer" problem, since the good build players only needed the loot on the bodies of the opposing good build players.

In was like imbalance in a fighting game - everyone knows if you beat a Cable player with Guile in MvC2 that you're a much better player than the Cable user.There's no patch coming for that arcade/console game, so you just have to accept the imbalance and go from there.

 

[Sisay]

If fanboy means realizing that WoW is the most enjoyable MMO over the longest period of time, sure. I'm not very biased about it though, like I said I cancelled aswell. Still think it was better than any other MMO though.

I think this pretty much concludes you're either a MMORPG noob, after all Wow is the ultimate Fisher Price (C) My First MMMORPG, or you're a fanboy. Wow is a PVE carebear game, it has absolutely nothing for any serious pvp'r. You're right in the sense that PVP was fun before the battlegrounds but it wasn't exactly DAOC and it sure as hell wasn't old school Ultima Online.

TOA might've very well ruined DAOC but Wow pvp was doomed from the get-go. Wow is very item-centric and the only way to get items is of course, straight from the EQ-clone handbook, PVE raiding. I don't know a whole lot of pvp'rs who enjoy PVE. What's worse is that it's very guild-unfriendly, no real PVP guild is going to have 40+ members.

Wow was never going to keep its PVP subscribers and battlegrounds just made them leave faster. Saying Wow is the most enjoyable MMO over the longest period of time is simply not true for almost anyone who enjoys PVP and has actually tried a PVP MMORPG before. People played UO and DAOC for years just for the PVP, who's going to play Wow for the PVP? Exactly, only some stupid noobs who've never tried a better game, or in the worst case scenario people who are just playing something until a this generation PVP MMORPG comes around.

I have no idea whether or not Wow PVE has the staying power Wow PVP completely lacks but I doubt it's anywhere near EQ. As for Darkfall, until it's released or there's an open beta it's vaporware to me. Maybe they are striving for the return of UO's glory days but there's a good chance it'll just end up as another Shadowbane.

 

[Avé]

If fanboy means realizing that WoW is the most enjoyable MMO over the longest period of time, sure. I'm not very biased about it though, like I said I cancelled aswell. Still think it was better than any other MMO though.

I think this pretty much concludes you're either a MMORPG noob, after all Wow is the ultimate Fisher Price (C) My First MMMORPG, or you're a fanboy. Wow is a PVE carebear game, it has absolutely nothing for any serious pvp'r. You're right in the sense that PVP was fun before the battlegrounds but it wasn't exactly DAOC and it sure as hell wasn't old school Ultima Online.

TOA might've very well ruined DAOC but Wow pvp was doomed from the get-go. Wow is very item-centric and the only way to get items is of course, straight from the EQ-clone handbook, PVE raiding. I don't know a whole lot of pvp'rs who enjoy PVE. What's worse is that it's very guild-unfriendly, no real PVP guild is going to have 40+ members.

Wow was never going to keep its PVP subscribers and battlegrounds just made them leave faster. Saying Wow is the most enjoyable MMO over the longest period of time is simply not true for almost anyone who enjoys PVP and has actually tried a PVP MMORPG before. People played UO and DAOC for years just for the PVP, who's going to play Wow for the PVP? Exactly, only some stupid noobs who've never tried a better game, or in the worst case scenario people who are just playing something until a this generation PVP MMORPG comes around.

I have no idea whether or not Wow PVE has the staying power Wow PVP completely lacks but I doubt it's anywhere near EQ. As for Darkfall, until it's released or there's an open beta it's vaporware to me. Maybe they are striving for the return of UO's glory days but there's a good chance it'll just end up as another Shadowbane.

You made one very big presumption.

That vrok only plays MMOG's for PVP.

 

[Sisay]

You made one very big presumption.

That vrok only plays MMOG's for PVP.

Only reason I played it was to PvP and the world PvP before Battlegrounds came was fantastic, both before and after the honor-patch.

I agree, it was fun, maybe even more so on the EU side because people didn't have their overpowering phat lewt yet. But it was nowhere near the old UO and I liked DAOC much more too. Death has no consequence in neither Wow nor DAOC, but PVP in general has no consequence in Wow. And that's a problem.

 

[DarkSign]

If fanboy means realizing that WoW is the most enjoyable MMO over the longest period of time, sure. I'm not very biased about it though, like I said I cancelled aswell. Still think it was better than any other MMO though.

I think this pretty much concludes you're either a MMORPG noob, after all Wow is the ultimate Fisher Price (C) My First MMMORPG, or you're a fanboy. Wow is a PVE carebear game, it has absolutely nothing for any serious pvp'r. You're right in the sense that PVP was fun before the battlegrounds but it wasn't exactly DAOC and it sure as hell wasn't old school Ultima Online.

TOA might've very well ruined DAOC but Wow pvp was doomed from the get-go. Wow is very item-centric and the only way to get items is of course, straight from the EQ-clone handbook, PVE raiding. I don't know a whole lot of pvp'rs who enjoy PVE. What's worse is that it's very guild-unfriendly, no real PVP guild is going to have 40+ members.

Wow was never going to keep its PVP subscribers and battlegrounds just made them leave faster. Saying Wow is the most enjoyable MMO over the longest period of time is simply not true for almost anyone who enjoys PVP and has actually tried a PVP MMORPG before. People played UO and DAOC for years just for the PVP, who's going to play Wow for the PVP? Exactly, only some stupid noobs who've never tried a better game, or in the worst case scenario people who are just playing something until a this generation PVP MMORPG comes around.

I have no idea whether or not Wow PVE has the staying power Wow PVP completely lacks but I doubt it's anywhere near EQ. As for Darkfall, until it's released or there's an open beta it's vaporware to me. Maybe they are striving for the return of UO's glory days but there's a good chance it'll just end up as another Shadowbane.

Couldnt have said it better myself. But I'll add a few things.

1. There's nothing in WoW's PvE experience that EQ didnt do over 4 years ago. Raids of hundreds can be fun, but WoW hasnt put some new, amazing spin on it that any other game never had - it's 100% derivative.

2. WoW's PvP is meaningless - that's to say it has no real lasting effect on your character or the gameworld. Come back to me when entering a battleground causes resources and spawn locations to change or has a real effect on your character.

As it stands, Battlegrounds are broken even on the basic level of the mechanics of getting people inside and keeping them.

3. Darkfall producers have said they want to bring back the feeling of pre-Trammel UO.
If you dont know what that means, how could I possibly think you have an informed opinion of what great MMO experiences are? If you do, then you know that means risk, character equipment not being the center of your character, and increased teamwork for your guild past over what WoW can give you.

WoW is great for the casual gamer - from 41 year old moms to 5 year old kids and 20-somethings stuck in their basement. But for those of us who expect more than !'s over the heads of quest givers, Darkfall is a ray of hope. It may not deliever, but WoW certainly hasnt either.

 

[vrok]

Let me make this clearer, WoW's mouse and keyboard-driven controls coupled with its mechanics for gameplay is what makes its PvP great. Not penalites, not consequences, nothing. The gameplay on the most basic level was just simply fun, which is the whole point. How "hardcore" an MMO is means nothing to me as a PvPer if the methods of control and gameplay mechanics are terrible and yes I usually play FPS games when no MMO is interesting enough which obviously drives my demands through the roof when it comes to this. This is the kind of thinking that puts WoW at the top and the others below the bar it has set. Only reason you can call me carebear for that is because you have no idea how I play it or other MMO's obviously.

Arguing this is pointless either way since combining WoW's character control with better everything else is far from impossible and would most likely result in a far better game. Although you the ultimate hardcore MMO player may not care for the perfected character control over clumsy implementations like DAoC's with gay /stick /face macros, a lot of competitive PvPers DO since it's vital to being able to perfect your own gameplay beyond the scope of items and character builds.

 

[Andyman Messiah]

Reading a bit too deeply into a single line, aren't yah Locue? Also, how ever clever calling Morrowind "one big continent".

Guess I forgot the wink-smiley.

And to straighten things up, I of course meant the "Varden, well, whatever the fuck it's called"-map of Morrowind. Once again: "Varden, well, whatever the fuck it's called" map = Morrowind map.

Edit: :wink:

 

[DarkSign]

LOL. WoW's character control is far from "perfected" but thats just my opinion.

"A lot of people" may enjoy WoW PvP but that doesnt make it great objectively. Pretty subjective opinions we're talkinga about here.

This whole attempt to undercut my assessment of WoW by using this "hardcore" reference is pretty laughable. Yes, Ive spoken about the penalties and depth, but I never said that those were the (only) things that made WoW terrible.

Ultimately you and I disagree so yeah, we're talking in circles. WoW PvP is the least fun of any of the MMO PvP Ive played (Meridian 59, UO, EQ, SB, DAoC, Planetside, RF Online, NeoCron, LinII, and some lesser known games). But if you're having fun with "My first MMO from PreSkool"...err WoW...far be it from me to tell you to stop.

Just get the fuck out of my face with all the "Zomg! Dis could B vapourware!" bullshit. You're not the only one who understands MMO type and hypocrisy.