I bet you're kicking yourself for not getting SoU now!!!

[Monte Carlo]

From the walkthrough for this epic adventure!
http://nwn.bioware.com/shadows/hilltop.html

I'll label this as a spoiler in the unlikely event that anybody here goes and plays this.

You begin in your tiny residence where you stayed during your training. Grab your stuff from the chest in your room. Be sure to read your journal for a good overview of your situation and an introduction to your fellow students who wait outside.

Does this sound familiar? Yes. It's the exact same beginning as the OC! I'm glad they didn't try to bamboozle anyone with...originality.

After a great deal of bantering between them, sounds of battle can be heard from downstairs -- Master Drogan is under attack!

Same again. I'd be utterly fucking confused by now if this XP's prelude didn't exactly follow the same format as the OC. Of course, I doubt that Master Drogan has beautifully animated bouncing boobies, but you have to change things a little bit don't you?

Use your Hand of Mystra to be teleported downstairs to investigate.

Ooooo!!! A Hand of Mystra. Is that like, er, a Portal Stone? Of course, 1st level D&D characters usually get issued artifact-level divine teleportation devices. Besides, what's wrong with stairs?

Keep in mind that every time you use the Hand of Mystra you will use one of the crystals that powers it.

No! UNFAIR! I wan't unlimited teleportation to the cleric and Magic-Items-R-Us mall!!! This game sucks ass. And it was beginning to look so much like the OC, too.

You can create more crystals in Drogan’s personal quarters.

Oh, that's OK then. I like it when game developers put pointless micromanagement into a game to satisfy their guilty consiences.

OK. Let's kill stuff! w00t!

The key to Drogan’s personal quarters is located in the downstairs laboratory in the basement of the school. You can get there after you have dealt with the kobold attack and spoken to Ayala. However, you will be prevented from entering the lab by some sort of protection spell. Drogan’s strange little friend Rilsi the Faerie Dragon will question you about why you are here.

Me kill Faerie Dragon. Me get XP.

Teleporting (or walking) downstairs you see that a huge battle has taken place with a band of kobolds. Finish off the remaining kobolds and then see the injured Master Drogan about what happened.

Wow. This walthrough guy is silly. I don't need to speak with Master Drogan to know what happened, as I already know what's gonna happen as I played the OC, remember? Me kill Master Drogan. Me get XP.

A stranger named Ayala has appeared suspiciously in the nick of time and she wishes to help Master Drogan. Talking with her reveals that she is a member of the Harper organization.

No shit! Can I kill her for XP? I can play an evil character right? Or does doing this break the plot and force me down a goody-goody, linear route? Does Arib....sorry Ayala have beautifully animated bouncing boobies (IN WHICH CASE I MAY SPARE HER)?

She and Master Drogan explain that four artifacts in Master Drogan’s care have been taken; this is the start of one of the major quests in Shadows called Missing Artifacts. The items missing are the Dragon Tooth, the Tower Statue, the Mask and the Mummified Hand.

Phew. For a moment there we were deviating too far from the OC and I was worried. Now I'm far more comfortable. OK, I may not be slaying monsters and retreiving four different body parts, but I can sort of make the transition to four arbitrary artifacts. Nice one, Bio!

Ayala also mentions that she needs some special ingredients to affect a cure (A Cure for Drogan) for the poison in Master Drogan’s system which resists her magic.

GREAT! An illness! Now I feel sooooo comfortable. Why don't I just boot up the OC and save my money??? But then I couldn't play the BLACKGUARD!!!

I could continue. But what's the point? This sounds so derivative, you couldn't make it up. What a fucking piss-take. Goodbye Bioware, taking liberties like this after NWN is just too goddamn awful. I'd already decided not to buy the XP, nor the one after and reading this vindicated the decision and then some.

Cheers
MC

 

[Astromarine]

you mispelled it. It's BALCKGAURD!!!!1!11

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

You know, when they mentioned the Find the four artifacts deal in one of those previews, I thought that they were basically just remaking the OC for NWN. Judging by that walk-through, that's basically the OC rehashed, though. One thing I really hated about NWN was the basic formula for the game's design was:

• ACT n+1 = ACT n + (Monster Level+5)
  
  Where:
  
  ACT is finding x items then defeating big boss

That sums up the majority of the OC right there.

It seems they also didn't fix the issue of allowing a single character to actually do well by himself with any class. Because of the rampant combat, you need to be a tank or convert an NPC to a tank just to win.

 

[Volourn]

Other than the four artifacts, and having basically the same game play; the SOU OC has very little in common with the NWN OC. But, that's okay, reading rants based on so little info is a lot of fun. :D

 

[Vault Dweller]

Proof please :D So, what's your opinion, Volourn, tell us what unspeakable adventures were waiting for you after you saved good master Drogan?

 

[Volourn]

I have only finished ch1; half way through ch.2 which is lamely called the Interlude.

Here are links that I have posted from other sites. Contrary to what you may think; I do not think SOU is perfect and have made some basic criticisms of it:

I've played for a few hours now. A few things to note:

1. NPCs have personality. The one I have talks... all... the... time...

2. Magical items are not strawn all over the places in barrels.

3. Though; I'm not a ranger, or druid there looks to be a more than a few animals to talk to; and tracks to follow. Being a non ranger; I can follow basic tracks.

4. The beginning makes sense for what it is. Am dissapointed in the "four artifacts" quest; but everything else but the story is solid.

5. Most quests can be solved without fighting if one wishes.

6. Too many feats, skills, and spells to choose from. Never enough to use.

7. AI is definitely better. My henchmen switches her weapons okay.

8. No over challenging battles yet - I avoided one which I thought wans't worh the risk of almost guaranteed death. Gnolls were not fun.

9. There is a limit portal item; but don't use it often or you will be screwed. Some places also cancel it.

10. You can't rest everywhere. There are limits.

------------


Well.. I rated the OC 75%; so far (and, I'm still early); this is easily in the 80%'s.

Graphics ae basically the same; perhaps crisper but I'm not one for such details when it coems to graphics. Special effects, are as before, solid. Sounds are good. Voice acting is good as well; but actually hard to judge overall since it isn't used a lot.

The npc's personalities/usefulness seem to be up there. One example, is there were some riddles I ahd to solve. I couldn't because I suck; but my henchwoman helped me out an answered them.

The AI is improved. Only twice so far did I see it do something I was not impressed with. Running thorugh multiple rooms to get to a trap we detted through a wall. Whatever. Also, dying to a magical trap because she was too dumb to follow me along the pattern to safety. That could be solved by the PC by asking her to wait. Of course, I didn't think of that before hand. Duh.

No problem at all.


----


This next one is in response to Visc the Whiney...

Well... Other than NWN, and MW we tend to like the same games from what I've seen.

You have said in the past that you like the game play, and rules aspect of NWN so you are alright there.

Your main complaints were story, challenge, npcs (AI and personality), FR lore being misrepresented, and phat lewt all over. Let's go over these one, by one if we may.

Story - The beginning, on the surface, seems to be the same as NWN OC. You are being "schooled"; the school is attacke dby weak seeming creatures who take out your leaders, and you must find 4 artifacts. Sound drab, huh? Not really. Your master's poisoning seems very plausible done by thes eparticular kobolds, and the artifact stuff is just part of a bigger picture. More on this as a progress.

Alos of note, like I said above, most quests can be solved in multiple ways, and also in a non violent manner.

NPCs: AI - Definitely improved. Just my two complaints above still fit; though my npc doens't have spells yet so I can't determine if they're used more intelligently than the original. She does switch rom missile to melee weapons though!!!

Personality - Way better. The npcs communicate with the player all the time, and mine even solved riddles for me in one case. Non joinable npcs are all interetsing in one way, or another, I think.


Challenge: Still early, the creatures aren't overly challenging; but a few are tricky. If you REALLY want to challenge yourself; there's the friendly neighbourhood hill giant you can practice on. Heh heh. Mor eon this as I progress.

FR Lore: Everything seems plausible. The real test will be how they andle Netheril. More on this as I progress.

Phat Lewt: Magical items are not found in random barels on streets. Just ain't happenin'. Magic items in shop are rightly expensive; sometimes as much as three time expensive as they were in the NWN OC. That says something in of itself.

Improvements/Adjustment: The henchmen inventory is huge. Just like in the IE games; you can equip things on them as you wish so no more being stuck with their original eqipment or them drinking potions right away.

The new feats, skills, and spells does make it harder to choose what you want for your character. Example, I'm playing a fighter/cleric and with my low skill points I do not get to stack my fave skills like I did before.


Bottom Line: I honestly think you would, however, in your case, it would be safer to wait until it's cheaper, or you hear others praising it. No need to take a chance.

For the record, most everyone on the BIO boards seem to like it other than yelling at Atari for boneheaded moves, and what seems to be a few bugs that effect few people - no major ones like when it was originally put out. Funny thing, only Gmonir has stated he he isn't overly impressed with the SOU's campaign. He finds it bland, or some such.

The choice is yours. Also remember, it is still early. I'm 3 hours in at this time.


That is all.


---

Other things to note. After ch1 is finish the teleport ring doesn't work at all since it only worked within a certain range. Also of note, even ch1 it didn't always worked. Between ahving the material for it, being in certain areas (like crypts, etc.); its magic tends to be blcoked. Plus, like mentioned enough, you can't rest everywhere, and in dungeons you can only rest at all if you shut doors to the room you are sleeping in. Though there is still a fair share of combat; that should be expcted from a BIO game.


That is all. :evil:

 

[Sabotai]

So what level were the attacking kobolds? Level 1 weak kobolds?

At least weak characters injuring one high level wizard is more plausible than weak lvl 1 characters killing all the high level teachers in the Academy. But then again, anything is more plausible than that.

 

[Sabotai]

9. There is a limit portal item; but don't use it often or you will be screwed.

How so?

Oh and is there a logical reason why the portal item doesn't work in certain areas?

The chickens have a gem in their trough.

Is it some unwritten law that a RPG need some loot stashed in or close by chickens? I remember a rogue stone in BG2 hidden inside a chicken. In Div Div, after rescueing the cat from the Merchant's Guild, the little girl tells about some secret loot in the chicken house. And now this...

 

[Volourn]

Sabotai: The kobolds' levels varied I think. They actually never kill your master; just poison him before you and your fellow trainess come in to mop up - most of them are dead before you enter the fray. The poison thing, and how it managed to knock down a dwarf is explained later on in chapter 1 in a reasoanble manner.

Welll... If you use the ring too much; you won't have the crystals you need to power it. You start off with three; bu can make more; but it actually costs you three gems to make each of the crystals so it is free. And, without it later in the chapter, you will have to walk etremely long distances to get back to the school, or pay a greedy wizard to teleport you back.

The power of various areas stops it - like the crypt I mentioned in my other post.

LOL I missed the chicken's stash it seems. Grr...


Oher things to note:

1. You can only "respawn" in ch1; but that's explained through the power of the ring - it telports you back to the school as soon as you fall unconcious. No respawn at all in the interlude. You also don't have the ability, like I mentioned, to telport about after ch1. Gte those walking shoes out.

2. Magical items are still to be found; but not as common as possible. I just found a +1 greataxe, and no magical full plate as of yet. I also have various magical itmes; none of them super powerful as yet. In fact, I have exactly 700gp to my name at this time.

3Item prices are expensive. One great axe I'm eyeing is +2 with a special ability, and it's cursed to lower your ac; and it costs a whopping 60,000gp (partly due to me failing my appraise) so I don't see myself buying it anytime soon. Appraise annoys me though beause it shouldn't be called apprasie; but bargain or some such. Oh well... just a silly name, anyways.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Well, it does sound like you are enjoying the game, and that they did tweak gameplay somewhat and fixed the most blatant things, so have fun. From what's been said here I gather that It's still not my cup of tea, but it does not mean I should not be happy for you :wink:

 

[Ibbz]

6. Too many feats, skills, and spells to choose from. Never enough to use.

You can never have enough feats! :D

Also, Whats chapter 2 like? Apparantly Rob Bartel did significant parts of it.

 

[Sabotai]

One thing puzzles me though. BioWare hasn't issued a self-boasting press release (or any for that matter) with the release and sale of SoU. So have they listened to critique or is this a one time fling?

 

[Volourn]

Ibbz: That's true. That's why I'm pointing that fact. I think it's a good thing. I'm not at chapter two yet..

 

[Sol Invictus]

Wow, SoU actually sounds good - I might just get it, just so my copy of NWN won't go to complete waste, heh heh.

If it is as good as you say it is, then KoTOR does indeed have hope.

 

[Volourn]

If I were you, I'd wait until it's a little cheaper so you don't have to worry about paying full price. No need to get too excited just because I like it; though I have pointed out fundamnetal changes between NWN OC, and SOU OC which aren't opinion but fact. Just make sure you don't confuse the two. I may like it; but doesn't mean you will.

I also should point out that some of the fundamental chnages like lewt not just lying around, or henchmen actually speaking up is pretty much agreed upon by everybody who's played or is playing the expansion. I just wished they didn't go wqith the 'four artifacts' thing at the beginning...

 

[DrattedTin]

Is everyone losing sight of the fact that the story still sucks and the Diablo aspect still sucks too?

Just wondering.

 

[Volourn]

Aye, so you feel you wasted your money on the expansion then? Cool.

 

[DrattedTin]

Nah, I never bought it. =D

 

[Volourn]

Didn't think so. Love your review. :wink:

I do agree that the story so far is nothing special; but the combat is not Diablish, imo. Actually, I find this is one of the few role-playing games where I am forced to use my potions and other magical junk to succeed in combat.

 

[DrattedTin]

You missed my point. It *fails* to rise to Diablo's standard.

 

[Sabotai]

Is everyone losing sight of the fact that the story still sucks and the Diablo aspect still sucks too?

Just wondering.

Well, sure they fixed some stuff that was horribly broken in the OC, but BIO still has a very very long way to go. Fighting is still, click and wait. Graphics are still generic and bland. The story still isn't good. According to a reviewer dialogue can be skipped through. Still no tactical fights. Henchmen AI is still flawed. I also read that the winter tiles are just reskins of the regular summer tiles, including crops on the land. So we have a winter setting with crops waiting to be harvested. Stupid. Mod makers and multiplayers probably are happy, but I'm not interested in those. I want a decent SP CRPG.

 

[chrisbeddoes]

Is everyone losing sight of the fact that the story still sucks and the Diablo aspect still sucks too?

Just wondering.

Well, sure they fixed some stuff that was horribly broken in the OC, but BIO still has a very very long way to go. Fighting is still, click and wait. Graphics are still generic and bland. The story still isn't good. According to a reviewer dialogue can be skipped through. Still no tactical fights. Henchmen AI is still flawed. I also read that the winter tiles are just reskins of the regular summer tiles, including crops on the land. So we have a winter setting with crops waiting to be harvested. Stupid. Mod makers and multiplayers probably are happy, but I'm not interested in those. I want a decent SP CRPG.

Do not worry

Never kiss Arineth *ss 5 due in 15 years will probably have fixed everything and be a great RPG .

But these things take time.

 

[Walks with the Snails]

What is it that makes people flip out so much over that teleport stone? I liked it mainly because it's convenient. People complained enough that they hobbled it, looks like. I really wish more games would do something like that, it's more a time saver than anything else. I guess you could abuse it if you want, but that's your choice. I thought that was a little too cheesy, so I refrained from using it in combat.

Of course, I'd be fine if they just made the stone recall you to your starting position but didn't let you return and then added the teleport spell to let you go anywhere you want (preferably in the travel domain as well and also give you a henchman that can cast it). Would that stop the wailing and gnashing of teeth?

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

My biggest beef with it is that it made the game really easy... And pointless. There are much, much better devices in game design which do the same thing, or similar things.. Like World Maps! With a world map, you can't just teleport away from a dragon over and over again to easily kick it's ass.

Seriously, look at it from another point of view. Who couldn't be the big, bad hero of Neverwinter if they were given what the player is given? Toss someone an unlimited teleport deal and offer them nearly unlimited ressurrection.. You could offer that to the castle meal grinder or the court jester, and he'd still save the day.

 

[Sabotai]

My thoughts exactly. WwtS, it's likeyour funny (and sad) example of how you were able to defeat a white dragon while reading your favorite book.

As we've discussed before, NWN has a negative CR. It's too frickin' easy. I want game designers to create a challenging game in which I can use my intellect to (tactically) win fights or solve problems. I want to use all resources available to me and I don't want to put restrictions on my gameplay in order to make the game challenging. To make a game challenging is the job of the designers, and because people have different challenging levels games usually allow for an easy/medium/hard setting. Not so in NWN.

I don't have that much of a problem wth the concept "Stone of Recall" per se unless it negatively influences the CR. My suggestion is, don't allow using the SoR during a fight. Or make using the SoR during a fight less "rewarding". Slightly increase the time to use the SoR, so in battle you will have three swords stuck in your guts before being teleported back, hence making the SoR uninsteresting for the use in battles.

To me it seems the Stone of Recall was primarily introduced as an easy means to sell redundant l3wt, picking up your suicide henchman and prevent walking back through the "sweeped clean" dungeon again (since resting for 30 seconds heals you completely, healing is not an issue for going back). I've no problem with a SoR with these purposes since it saves boring travel, but don't let it affect battles.