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I am enjoying again Oblivion

Zlaja

Arcane
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
5,731
Location
Swedex
I have to admit that what annoyed me the most in Oblivion was the fact that there was simply no point in exploring Cyrodill. The reason that made Morrowind playable was this notion that there was always some unique loot left to be find in various places. I don't really care about the stupid radiant AI and that retarded level-system. I knew those things would suck. But what really suprised me was when I finally undestood that there is no fucking reason for me to visit more than a few dungeons that are convienently close to towns.....again....and again...and again. That's all I had to do in order to equip myself with all the Daedric and Glas-shit. You can't have a bloody sand-box game without having a reason to explore the game world.

In other words, Oblivion fails even as just a sand-box adventure game.
 

elander_

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 7, 2005
Messages
2,015
If everything is unique then nothing is unique. Just applying some common sense.

The problem of Oblivion dunegons is that they failed completely in their promise of delivering more unique dungeon doing them by hand. They just wasted tons of man-hour resources building similar dungeons that are less fun than Daggerfall ones. The only thing these dungeons have is a great immersion sense and visual apeal.

Daggerfall dungens are more chalenging:
- you can get lost easly
- enemies are stronger and more chalenging
- there are more traps and lever puzzles
- you can climb dungeon pits to access unexplored areas

A good number of respaning quests (besides the thieves guild quests) can be finished without a killing which is good for thieves and non-warrior types.

You can find very good loot if you dig long enough (this special loot is leveled way above the player level).

There is usualy more vareity inside Daggerfall dungeons. Its usual to find huge arena rooms, sacrifcie pits, altar rooms, prision areas, sunken towers, huge submersed dungeon sections. Often there are abandoned mines and cave sections mixed and interconnecting more than one dungeon section.

Playing a Daggerfall dungeon takes hours and it's often a mater of survival. You catch a disease for example and don't have an cure disease spell or an healling potion your survival depends on how far (in travel days) you can exit the dungeon and get to the nearby temple, which also depends on your endurance and disease resistence.
 
Joined
Nov 7, 2006
Messages
1,246
Zlaja said:
...The reason that made Morrowind playable was this notion that there was always some unique loot left to be find in various places....

Unique items are one of the best things in Morrowind. Oblivion is very disappointing under this point of view.
 

Baphomet

Scholar
Joined
Feb 9, 2006
Messages
354
Location
Americans do not need geography
Oblivion is a fun game. I'll admit to having played about 100 hours between various characters. I don't really think of it as an RPG because what I, as a player, decide is what order I'll experience game content. Still, a fun game.

If I ever made a mod, I'd add a quest where you have to find out who is giving the bandits all this damn expensive/magical equipment. It could be a vast government conspiracy or something. :)
 

suibhne

Erudite
Joined
Aug 21, 2003
Messages
1,951
Location
Chicago
Dark Messiah's combat, despite its faults, is roughly 532% better than Oblivion's. Sure, it's a different game and even a different genre (well, sorta...)...but the point is that some of us have said Oblivion works okay as an action-adventure game even tho it fails utterly as an RPG. Well, guess what, Dark Messiah is far better as an action game, and it may even be a better RPG (even tho its narrative is still absolute trash) simply because the character system is so much better.

I love Oblivion's world design. I'm not ashamed to admit this; I think the gameworld designers did a phenomenal job of creating an outdoor environment with distinct and consistent ecotypes. But the lack of meaningful content ruins an otherwise beautiful gameworld.
 
Joined
Nov 7, 2006
Messages
1,246
Baphomet said:
Oblivion is a fun game...

I agree. Maybe Oblivion is not a RPG, it's obviously designed for casual gamers, but it is a fun game. I've played it 120 hours and I enjoyed it. It's sad to think that it could be much better...
 

elander_

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 7, 2005
Messages
2,015
Baphomet said:
If I ever made a mod, I'd add a quest where you have to find out who is giving the bandits all this damn expensive/magical equipment. It could be a vast government conspiracy or something. :)

Tell me that is a joke mod. Unless you are one of those guys who tried to find reasonable explanations to why there aren't children in Morrowind or you can't sit. Man the laughs i had reading those threads.
 

crufty

Arcane
Joined
Jun 29, 2004
Messages
6,383
Location
Glassworks
For me, the worst part about Oblivion is BethSoft could fix the broken loot spawning and the auto-leveling creatures and they haven't, esp for the xbox 360. It's what is preventing me from buying it. Because what's the point of playing.

It would have to be free, because I think that is something that should have been there from the beginning, or at least been a difficulty setting.
 

cutterjohn

Cipher
Joined
Sep 28, 2006
Messages
1,629
Location
Bloom County
elander_ said:
If everything is unique then nothing is unique. Just applying some common sense.

The problem of Oblivion dunegons is that they failed completely in their promise of delivering more unique dungeon doing them by hand. They just wasted tons of man-hour resources building similar dungeons that are less fun than Daggerfall ones. The only thing these dungeons have is a great immersion sense and visual apeal.

Daggerfall dungens are more chalenging:
- you can get lost easly
- enemies are stronger and more chalenging
- there are more traps and lever puzzles
- you can climb dungeon pits to access unexplored areas

A good number of respaning quests (besides the thieves guild quests) can be finished without a killing which is good for thieves and non-warrior types.

You can find very good loot if you dig long enough (this special loot is leveled way above the player level).

There is usualy more vareity inside Daggerfall dungeons. Its usual to find huge arena rooms, sacrifcie pits, altar rooms, prision areas, sunken towers, huge submersed dungeon sections. Often there are abandoned mines and cave sections mixed and interconnecting more than one dungeon section.

Playing a Daggerfall dungeon takes hours and it's often a mater of survival. You catch a disease for example and don't have an cure disease spell or an healling potion your survival depends on how far (in travel days) you can exit the dungeon and get to the nearby temple, which also depends on your endurance and disease resistence.
Daggerfall dungeons were random, which made them fun IMO, but also meant that sometimes they were broken as in you couldn't get to the area with the quest item unless you void walked.

It was also nice in it had multiple modes of transportation, multiple rates of travel, many cities(of good size and population), climbing(and other useful skills that added to characters), more complex skill arrangements, banks, a much larger area to explore, etc. Daggerfall was just so much better. MW was OK. Oblivion was crap(I had been hoping for something closer to DF though... Some day I'll try it again with a horde of mods, maybe around Christmas...)

Auto levelling, loot spawning, levelled lists in general, quest compass:
Bethesda COULD have and easily done so, added those items as check boxes or sliders in which range levels could be given.

They could also have allowed a setting to give a variable chance of getting an especially good item at any time.

A checkbox to turn on or off the quest compass

A checkbox to turn on or off fast travel.

I still have hopes for a decent size real expansion for Oblivion with a new engine that would add these options amongst other things(various methods of travel, new landmass areas, etc.) and actually make Oblivion semi-fun to play as an RPG. The skills, etc. unfortunaterly likely won't be fixed as that would require major changes to the game.
 

elander_

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 7, 2005
Messages
2,015
Baphomet said:
Sure. It's a joke mod.

It should be fun.

cutterjohn said:
Daggerfall dungeons were random, which made them fun IMO, but also meant that sometimes they were broken as in you couldn't get to the area with the quest item unless you void walked.

You must be refering to one of those quests where you are teleported inside a dungeon by someone who wants you dead. Theres an exit for that dungeon but you need to find the secret passage by clicking on a wall with a funny texture or click on torch or skull to open a section of the dungeon.

I got frustrated with this myself the first time and reloaded but later i found the trick.
 

cutterjohn

Cipher
Joined
Sep 28, 2006
Messages
1,629
Location
Bloom County
elander_ said:
cutterjohn said:
Daggerfall dungeons were random, which made them fun IMO, but also meant that sometimes they were broken as in you couldn't get to the area with the quest item unless you void walked.

You must be refering to one of those quests where you are teleported inside a dungeon by someone who wants you dead. Theres an exit for that dungeon but you need to find the secret passage by clicking on a wall with a funny texture or click on torch or skull to open a section of the dungeon.

I got frustrated with this myself the first time and reloaded but later i found the trick.
Sorry, no. The dungeons were randomly generated, and as with darklands' castles would not always create links between areas of a dungeon. Typically, it was the segment in which the quest goal was contained. If you look around various DF fansite & forums, you will see mentions of void rangering to get to a quest item as passwall had been removed as a spell.

[EDIT]
Had to fix the quotes...
[/EDIT]
 

stargelman

Scholar
Joined
Jan 21, 2006
Messages
337
Location
Funky Bebop Land
I was talking with a good friend of mine who is -or rather was- a big TES fan as well. We both concluded -after only one week of playing it- that Gothic 3 was superior to Oblivion in every way.
 

Blacklung

Arbiter
Joined
Jan 19, 2006
Messages
1,115
Location
The geological, topographical, theological pancake
Daggerfall was random but in a good way. It wasn't too hard, but wasn't too easy, but wasn't too simplistic. Morrowind wasn't random, but had the special touch to some dungeons, special items, and landscape, and was a bit more simplistic. Oblivion was the worst parts of the previous two games meshed together with superior graphics...Thus it blew chunks to any of us who became fans of either of the other two games. Do we really need to reiterate this anymore than it already has on this site? Come on guys. Oblivion has been out how long now? Nobody is really listening to us anymore other than us...course, then again, there isn't much else to talk about in the RPG world...*sigh*
 

cutterjohn

Cipher
Joined
Sep 28, 2006
Messages
1,629
Location
Bloom County
Sylvanus said:
Daggerfall was random but in a good way. It wasn't too hard, but wasn't too easy, but wasn't too simplistic. Morrowind wasn't random, but had the special touch to some dungeons, special items, and landscape, and was a bit more simplistic. Oblivion was the worst parts of the previous two games meshed together with superior graphics...Thus it blew chunks to any of us who became fans of either of the other two games. Do we really need to reiterate this anymore than it already has on this site? Come on guys. Oblivion has been out how long now? Nobody is really listening to us anymore other than us...course, then again, there isn't much else to talk about in the RPG world...*sigh*
I really was trying to ignore Oblivious, however my distraction of ragging on NWN2 has started to lose steam as the plot has finally picked up in the area around Fort Locke, and when the camera is zoomed in very close to the characters, the graphics do look better. Minor things still suck like massive overuse of --O-L-D-- ancient BW assets and a lousy camera.

I plan to actually attempt Oblivious again, at least long enough to finish the MQ this time around, along with a boatload of mods, most especially either Francesco's or Oscuro's. I would like to try it around Christmas... Have to see if the mods can make it palatable or not...

BTW: If you think the Oblivious stuff is bad, just wait until you see the reaction to Fallout 3, as I've got really low expectations now including in Bethesda's recent Fo3 related news items and Oblivious.
 

Vidken

Novice
Joined
Aug 30, 2006
Messages
83
Any respect I was holding on to Oblivion after having just paid $50 for it was instantly raped away the first time I tried to persuade an NPC. I expected everything up to that point. Playskool interface? I could cope. Quest GPS waypoint beacon? It was expected. Linear quests? Morrowind had those. But the persuasion minigame? What the FUCK.

I've paid money for worse games overall, but I never felt such dread for seeing that piece of shit feature the first time.

Oblivion may as well be one of those educational games for retards where you solve quests by spelling words like "horse" and "flower". Bandits ask you to solve basic addition to let you past bridges. Your sword does more damage the higher your typing accuracy. I'm sure it would be challenging for the average Oblivion fanboy.
 

Lord Chambers

Erudite
Joined
Jan 23, 2006
Messages
1,018
Vidken said:
Oblivion may as well be one of those educational games for retards where you solve quests by spelling words like "horse" and "flower". Bandits ask you to solve basic addition to let you past bridges. Your sword does more damage the higher your typing accuracy. I'm sure it would be challenging for the average Oblivion fanboy.
Mario Teaches Typing was hot.
 

denizsi

Arcane
Joined
Nov 24, 2005
Messages
9,927
Location
bosphorus
Besides gazing the horror of the stupid design elements, Oblivion failed to inject any motivation whatsoever into me to play the game and do anything specific. Even when on a quest, playing the game felt like being an aimless chicken ditching through dust. Shiny dullness.

Sorry, no. The dungeons were randomly generated, and as with darklands' castles would not always create links between areas of a dungeon. Typically, it was the segment in which the quest goal was contained. If you look around various DF fansite & forums, you will see mentions of void rangering to get to a quest item as passwall had been removed as a spell.

You are really wrong there. There might be a hidden door, a lever to open a secret passage in the most awkward places so you can't tell what you are doing and where to go, but dungeons aren't broken. They might be broken before the patches, but as of the latest patch, there is no such thing. I never use the cheats and use a tracking system on paper so I don't keep drawing circles and when I'm %80 finished with a dungeon, I can tell where exactly any door, corridor or elevator leads to. I haven't experienced a problem once to this day and I'm still playing it (and on my XP machine now - thanks to Saint Proverbius)
 

cutterjohn

Cipher
Joined
Sep 28, 2006
Messages
1,629
Location
Bloom County
Vidken said:
Oblivion may as well be one of those educational games for retards where you solve quests by spelling words like "horse" and "flower". Bandits ask you to solve basic addition to let you past bridges. Your sword does more damage the higher your typing accuracy. I'm sure it would be challenging for the average Oblivion fanboy.
Your're forgetting an important point:
The target audience is not functionally literate, and incapable of basic spelling and mathematics.

As for typing, if it involves more than mashing three or four buttons in various combinations, forget it. After all seeing as they are entirely lacking in education whatsoever and are challenged by memorizing button combos consisting of basic geometric shapes, however in the fuck are they going to remember 26 symbols which have no meaning to them other than the button mashing combo?

I for one am all for boycotting ALL voice acting. ONLY long sections of written dialog consisting of obscure multi-syllabic anachronistic words, grammar, and style. Just think how nice the ESF would be if Bethesda stuck to those simple rules.

(Of course since those imbeciles purchased several million copies of the game, and given their blatant lack of education AND intelligence, one has to wonder how they acquired the money to purchase a) their gaming system(PC or console), b) the game itself, and moreover how they manage to function in the world. Can learned/copied patterns get them that far?
 

cutterjohn

Cipher
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Location
Bloom County
denizsi said:
You are really wrong there. There might be a hidden door, a lever to open a secret passage in the most awkward places so you can't tell what you are doing and where to go, but dungeons aren't broken. They might be broken before the patches, but as of the latest patch, there is no such thing. I never use the cheats and use a tracking system on paper so I don't keep drawing circles and when I'm %80 finished with a dungeon, I can tell where exactly any door, corridor or elevator leads to. I haven't experienced a problem once to this day and I'm still playing it (and on my XP machine now - thanks to Saint Proverbius)
Sorry, but I'm not, and as soon as I can be bothered to, I'll find some references.

XP: Really?! And you haven't encountered invisible quest items yet? If not, you are an EXTREMELY unique case as everyone else that I know of(including me) who has tried Daggerfall on any OS beyond 98 has encountered invisible quest items/monster. Moreover the only known way to avoid this under 2k/XP is to play using DOSBOX.

[EDIT]BTW, you're not really playing it "under XP" that way. From my extremely brief perusal of your linked topic, it would appear that what you actually have is a VM setup which is running an entirely different OS, apparently, FreeDOS. DOSBOX is closer to running Daggerfall "under XP" than what you have linked to...[/EDIT]
 

denizsi

Arcane
Joined
Nov 24, 2005
Messages
9,927
Location
bosphorus
Sorry, but I'm not, and as soon as I can be bothered to, I'll find some references.

You do that.

9XP: Really?! And you haven't encountered invisible quest items yet? If not, you are an EXTREMELY unique case as everyone else that I know of(including me) who has tried Daggerfall on any OS beyond 98 has encountered invisible quest items/monster. Moreover the only known way to avoid this under 2k/XP is to play using DOSBOX.

[EDIT]BTW, you're not really playing it "under XP" that way. From my extremely brief perusal of your linked topic, it would appear that what you actually have is a VM setup which is running an entirely different OS, apparently, FreeDOS. DOSBOX is closer to running Daggerfall "under XP" than what you have linked to...[/EDIT]

Come again? And again?
 

denizsi

Arcane
Joined
Nov 24, 2005
Messages
9,927
Location
bosphorus
It's not some built-in 98 emulator. I installed W98 myself. It supports virtually any OS.

Performance is as good as running a 98 host. I mean it. Compared to it, DosBox is a joke.

However, I almost forgot it, sometimes sound is crappy. That's the only negative thing I can find about it, and VMSound doesn't support 98.
 

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