People News Guido Henkel is back with a new game - Deathfire

[Infinitron]

I like German WW2 movies. I thought it was interesting how the young doctrinaire Nazi(?) officer in Das Boot was portrayed as something of a goose stepper but still a basically decent individual. He even got to survive the film's ending.

 

[Moribund]

There's a cool historically accurate documentary that's been out a while which you might enjoy, commie.

Not my cup of tea but lots of people seemed to enjoy ingloreous basterds.

 

[commie]

What crap.

Yeah, thanks for the history lesson, Commie.

The truth should set you free not create butthurt.

There's a cool historically accurate documentary that's been out a while which you might enjoy, commie.

Not my cup of tea but lots of people seemed to enjoy ingloreous basterds.

More butthurt. Exactly what about what I wrote is inaccurate? You mean the Germans DIDN'T cheer on their beloved Fuhrer when the war was going well? That the Germans weren't in the ascendancy still in mid 1941? You mean that the regular German army DIDN'T willingly participate in executions of people and not just the SS?

 

[HobGoblin42]

German WW2 movies are just sickening overdone apologist revisionism. Stalingrad had all the Germans hating the Nazis and finding it so terrible to be part of the firing squad against Soviet civilians, many of whom were partisans anyway and accordingly under the rules of war they had no protection being out of uniform. Das Boot had the commander whining about the Nazis again and how they are losing the war despite the film being set in 1941 when Germany was still on the ascendancy. I would expect the bitterness and defeatism to show up in a movie set in 1943 or 1944 but not 1941. My wife watched Stalingrad after I told her about it but she couldn't connect to the 'feeling sorry for themselves' overwrought and overthick pathos in it and that's pretty much what nagged me with German war films only I couldn't put my finger on it before then. It's always 'poor peaceloving Germans, all hate the war but it's the EVIL NAZIS that forced them to fight and they had no choice'. What crap.

The thread is completely derailed, so I don't want to discuss that topic further but I disagree with your opinion about the portrayal of German people in German WWII movies. Those movies use to show the ambivalent support for the Nazi regime: some were passionate Nazis, some were conformists, some (passively) refused their ideology and few were openly against them (and died for that).

 

[Kz3r0]

What crap.

Yeah, thanks for the history lesson, Commie.

The truth should set you free not create butthurt.

As I always said, truth hurts.
You must understand that these people claim that History is a fairy tale while engorging themselves on entertainment, from which all their knowledge of history comes.

 

[Kz3r0]

German WW2 movies are just sickening overdone apologist revisionism. Stalingrad had all the Germans hating the Nazis and finding it so terrible to be part of the firing squad against Soviet civilians, many of whom were partisans anyway and accordingly under the rules of war they had no protection being out of uniform. Das Boot had the commander whining about the Nazis again and how they are losing the war despite the film being set in 1941 when Germany was still on the ascendancy. I would expect the bitterness and defeatism to show up in a movie set in 1943 or 1944 but not 1941. My wife watched Stalingrad after I told her about it but she couldn't connect to the 'feeling sorry for themselves' overwrought and overthick pathos in it and that's pretty much what nagged me with German war films only I couldn't put my finger on it before then. It's always 'poor peaceloving Germans, all hate the war but it's the EVIL NAZIS that forced them to fight and they had no choice'. What crap.

The thread is completely derailed, so I don't want to discuss that topic further but I disagree with your opinion about the portrayal of German people in German WWII movies. Those movies use to show the ambivalent support for the Nazi regime: some were passionate Nazis, some were conformists, some (passively) refused their ideology and few were openly against them (and died for that).

Except that in said movies the very few contrarians are way over represented.

 

[commie]

I like German WW2 movies. I thought it was interesting how the young doctrinaire Nazi(?) officer in Das Boot was portrayed as something of a goose stepper but still a basically decent individual. He even got to survive the film's ending.

Yeah but they all had to die to prove the theory that the EVIL Nazis brought this onto the poor Germans who were just doing their job. That's why the 'Nazi' had to survive, in order to see the 'error' of his ways. You won't see a German movie denouncing Bomber Harris or the general atrocities that the Germans suffered themselves primarily in the East but also elsewhere. Why not? Cause it's not politically correct! By all means it's good that the Germans show their own crimes in such movies, but it's pretty cynical to then blame them all on mythical 'Nazis' and not GERMANS. Hell even atrocities AGAINST German's are indirectly blamed on the Nazis and not the perpetrators. Remember the scene in Stalingrad when the hero answers "maybe it's what we deserve" when a comrade tells him how the Soviets take no prisoners?

 

[Infinitron]

I like German WW2 movies. I thought it was interesting how the young doctrinaire Nazi(?) officer in Das Boot was portrayed as something of a goose stepper but still a basically decent individual. He even got to survive the film's ending.

Yeah but they all had to die to prove the theory that the EVIL Nazis brought this onto the poor Germans who were just doing their job. That's why the 'Nazi' had to survive, in order to see the 'error' of his ways. You won't see a German movie denouncing Bomber Harris or the general atrocities that the Germans suffered themselves primarily in the East but also elsewhere. Why not? Cause it's not politically correct! By all means it's good that the Germans show their own crimes in such movies, but it's pretty cynical to then blame them all on mythical 'Nazis' and not GERMANS. Hell even atrocities AGAINST German's are indirectly blamed on the Nazis and not the perpetrators. Remember the scene in Stalingrad when the hero answers "maybe it's what we deserve" when a comrade tells him how the Soviets take no prisoners?

u sober, bro?

 

[HobGoblin42]

It's historically confirmed to blame the Nazis for WWII, Bomber Harris and soviet commissars don't change that. And this statement comes from someone whose grandfather died in a soviet prison camp.

 

[commie]

German WW2 movies are just sickening overdone apologist revisionism. Stalingrad had all the Germans hating the Nazis and finding it so terrible to be part of the firing squad against Soviet civilians, many of whom were partisans anyway and accordingly under the rules of war they had no protection being out of uniform. Das Boot had the commander whining about the Nazis again and how they are losing the war despite the film being set in 1941 when Germany was still on the ascendancy. I would expect the bitterness and defeatism to show up in a movie set in 1943 or 1944 but not 1941. My wife watched Stalingrad after I told her about it but she couldn't connect to the 'feeling sorry for themselves' overwrought and overthick pathos in it and that's pretty much what nagged me with German war films only I couldn't put my finger on it before then. It's always 'poor peaceloving Germans, all hate the war but it's the EVIL NAZIS that forced them to fight and they had no choice'. What crap.

The thread is completely derailed, so I don't want to discuss that topic further but I disagree with your opinion about the portrayal of German people in German WWII movies. Those movies use to show the ambivalent support for the Nazi regime: some were passionate Nazis, some were conformists, some (passively) refused their ideology and few were openly against them (and died for that).

Except that in said movies the very few contrarians are way over represented.

Exactly, almost all the officer classes are 'against' the Nazis in such movies. Remember Stalingrad? "We're not Nazis", "no, you officers are worse, you went along with it", type of thing. Now I can appreciate everyone trying to disassociate themselves from the idea that they supported the war (and the Nazis) when they were winning and now are trying to suggest that they never supported it, but it's overdone even in Stalingrad as the cynicism is from the start, and as I said with the case of Das Boot, it makes no real sense as Germany was winning at the time and U-Boat losses were few and far between.

If everyone was against the Nazis to the extent that is shown in German war movies there's not a hope in hell that Adolf could have maintained the support to fight on until total defeat. People forget that Adolf wasn't a tyrant, he didn't rule by fear to anywhere near the extent of other dictators. The German war machine suffered in the long run because of Hitler's insistence to concentrate production of civilian goods and services until it was too late for Germany to redress the numerical deficiency in equipment they faced. Why? Cause he was terrified that the people would turn against him! Yet in the final reckoning they fought till the bitter end disproving the idea that they were 'reluctant supporters' or whatever the apologists try to say. The German resistance's tiny and pathetic nature is thus made even more so when held up to the fact that there wasn't mass repression in Germany stopping them from operating. The reality was that no-one was interested!

But that's what happens when you get your history from German movies and games like Wolfenstein and Saboteur: you start to think that the majority of Germans were against the Nazis and that the German resistance was vast and determined and that there was this other race called the 'Nazis' that forced the 'Germans' to fight.

What would be better if they had many more true believers that would justify reprisals against civilians etc., just as really happened. The majority didn't think it untoward to massacre surrendered Soviet troops as they had witnessed German troops being executed after surrendering as well. Partisans also were every bit as cruel and brutal as any SS unit, murdering occupying troops and who they perceived as collaborators in often horrific ways. Why then portray the German soldiers as 'poor conflicted souls bitter about having to have killed partisans' in reprisal? Read most German accounts about such actions and you'll see that they rarely felt guilty about it. At most they rationalised it as a necessary evil.

 

[commie]

I like German WW2 movies. I thought it was interesting how the young doctrinaire Nazi(?) officer in Das Boot was portrayed as something of a goose stepper but still a basically decent individual. He even got to survive the film's ending.

Yeah but they all had to die to prove the theory that the EVIL Nazis brought this onto the poor Germans who were just doing their job. That's why the 'Nazi' had to survive, in order to see the 'error' of his ways. You won't see a German movie denouncing Bomber Harris or the general atrocities that the Germans suffered themselves primarily in the East but also elsewhere. Why not? Cause it's not politically correct! By all means it's good that the Germans show their own crimes in such movies, but it's pretty cynical to then blame them all on mythical 'Nazis' and not GERMANS. Hell even atrocities AGAINST German's are indirectly blamed on the Nazis and not the perpetrators. Remember the scene in Stalingrad when the hero answers "maybe it's what we deserve" when a comrade tells him how the Soviets take no prisoners?

u sober, bro?

Go back to cutpasting Kotaku bro. History is wasted on you since you believe that 'God' gave you a piece of land in the desert and that it's your duty to exterminate all others that live there.

 

[Infinitron]

No, really, that post was all over the place. One sentence is anti-German, one sentence is pro-German. Who are you arguing with?

cutpasting Kotaku

I wish!

 

[commie]

It's historically confirmed to blame the Nazis for WWII, Bomber Harris and soviet commissars don't change that. And this statement comes from someone whose grandfather died in a soviet prison camp.

No, the GERMANS started the war, not the Nazis. I don't think you'll find any decent historian that believes that a mythical 'Nazi' race started the war. This is the revisionism I'm talking about: the way the Germans try and blame a particular political group instead of themselves who voted for old Adolf anyway. That's why Concentration Camps are increasingly labeled 'NAZI concentration camps' and not 'German concentration camps'. That's why there are ever more games released in Germany where the people will happily play because the enemies aren't 'Germans' they are 'Nazis'. In the new Wolfenstein game, there is a scene where German troops are in a bar and the normal Germans refer to them as 'Nazis'. All through the game the German troops are 'Nazis' while the ordinary people are referred to as 'Germans'. This isn't just a case of trying to get more sales by making the ordinary German gamer think that they aren't killing their people but some other group of criminals. This is part of a larger trend. The same thing in Saboteur. The enemies are exclusively called 'Nazis' while the resistance and the odd German that isn't hostile are referred to as 'Germans'.

Oh and harking back to the 'Bij Faszyste' days, then it made sense for the Soviets to play up the ideological difference of the respective nations and not concentrate on ethnicity, same as in the West. Still doesn't change the fact that when all is said and done, the Germans started the war, the fact that some were Nazis too doesn't disassociate one from the other.

Anyway this is the wrong place for this. Maybe I'll open a GD thread to continue the discussion with interested parties, maybe not, but it's the last I'll derail this thread with.

 

[HobGoblin42]

In fact, the most officers and high ranked Prussian members of the German military (Reichswehr, later Wehrmacht) disliked Hitler from the beginning. One reason was, that Hitler didn't hold any remarkable military rank nor he had other achievements in this life or descended from some aristocratic dynasty. Hitler came to power by using simple thugs (SA, later partially SS) and by promising a better economy and the annihilation of the contracts of Versailles. But the elitist German society always rejected him.

I understand your point to certain degree and it's true that some movies or games describe the situation too much like 'Nazis vs Germans' which isn't historically proper. But on the other hand, it's also wrong to assume that the majority of German were Nazis. In the last legitimate election 1932 (before the Nazis came to power), the NSDAP achieved only 33% votes.

The conformism of the Germans made the situation worse, not their hatred.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Yeah but they all had to die to prove the theory that the EVIL Nazis brought this onto the poor Germans who were just doing their job. That's why the 'Nazi' had to survive, in order to see the 'error' of his ways. You won't see a German movie denouncing Bomber Harris or the general atrocities that the Germans suffered themselves primarily in the East but also elsewhere. Why not? Cause it's not politically correct! By all means it's good that the Germans show their own crimes in such movies, but it's pretty cynical to then blame them all on mythical 'Nazis' and not GERMANS. Hell even atrocities AGAINST German's are indirectly blamed on the Nazis and not the perpetrators. Remember the scene in Stalingrad when the hero answers "maybe it's what we deserve" when a comrade tells him how the Soviets take no prisoners?

In last free elections Nazis got ~33% votes with a turnout of ~72%. Which means that they were elected by ~24% of Germans with voting rights. They took over, banned all other parties and started doing not so nice things to people who opposed them.

Still, I've read a diary of an anti-Nazi German soldier (who died during the war) and he still described how they (Germans) murdered and robbed their way through soviet union because they had poor logistics and had to live from the land - which meant taking away people's all means of survival and killing anyone who even annoyed them.

The conformism of the Germans made the situation worse, not their hatred.

Conformism is just hatred by other name.

 

[Alex]

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it. I'm saying that is vague as fuck. "First person 3D RPG" could mean a lot of things. TB blobber? RT blobber? First person only during exploration? Action RPG?

Maybe he meant it is the first rpg to cast 3-dimensional space as a person in the game.

 

[Jaesun]

Why am I browsing GD?

 

[JarlFrank]

So Guido Henkel is making a WW2 RPG where you play as a German soldier? Sounds awesome!

 

[HobGoblin42]

So Guido Henkel is making a WW2 RPG where you play as a German soldier? Sounds awesome!

A German soldier, who fights against the mysterious Nazi people

 

[JarlFrank]

So Guido Henkel is making a WW2 RPG where you play as a German soldier? Sounds awesome!

A German soldier, who fights against the mysterious Nazi people

And in the end you travel to the secret nazi moonbase and find out that the nazis are actually evil aliens from outer space who want to conquer the earth and enlave humankind!

 

[Jaesun]

Enslaving nations with Necromancy?

 

[JarlFrank]

Alright, just add "game based on nazi occultism" to the list of RPGs we'd like to play but which will probably never be made. It's not like that list isn't long enough already. Sigh.

 

[Infinitron]

Alright, just add "game based on nazi occultism" to the list of RPGs we'd like to play but which will probably never be made. It's not like that list isn't long enough already. Sigh.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfenstein_RPG

 

[JarlFrank]

Alright, just add "game based on nazi occultism" to the list of RPGs we'd like to play but which will probably never be made. It's not like that list isn't long enough already. Sigh.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfenstein_RPG

mobile phone and iOS

And this is why we can't have nice things.

 

[Moribund]

Exactly, almost all the officer classes are 'against' the Nazis in such movies. Remember Stalingrad? "We're not Nazis", "no, you officers are worse, you went along with it", type of thing. Now I can appreciate everyone trying to disassociate themselves from the idea that they supported the war (and the Nazis) when they were winning and now are trying to suggest that they never supported it, but it's overdone even in Stalingrad as the cynicism is from the start, and as I said with the case of Das Boot, it makes no real sense as Germany was winning at the time and U-Boat losses were few and far between.

If everyone was against the Nazis to the extent that is shown in German war movies there's not a hope in hell that Adolf could have maintained the support to fight on until total defeat. People forget that Adolf wasn't a tyrant, he didn't rule be fear to anywhere near the extent of other dictators. The German war machine suffered in the long run because of Hitler's insistence to concentrate production of civilian goods and services until it was too late for Germany to redress the numerical deficiency in equipment they faced. Why? Cause he was terrified that the people would turn against him! Yet in the final reckoning they fought till the bitter end disproving the idea that they were 'reluctant supporters' or whatever the apologists try to say. The German resistance's tiny and pathetic nature is thus made even more so when held up to the fact that there wasn't mass repression in Germany stopping them from operating. The reality was that no-one was interested!

But that's what happens when you get your history from German movies and games like Wolfenstein and Saboteur: you start to think that the majority of Germans were against the Nazis and that the German resistance was vast and determined and that there was this other race called the 'Nazis' that forced the 'Germans' to fight.

What would be better if they had many more true believers that would justify reprisals against civilians etc., just as really happened. The majority didn't think it untoward to massacre surrendered Soviet troops as they had witnessed German troops being executed after surrendering as well. Partisans also were every bit as cruel and brutal as any SS unit, murdering occupying troops and who they perceived as collaborators in often horrific ways. Why then portray the German soldiers as 'poor conflicted souls bitter about having to have killed partisans' in reprisal? Read most German accounts about such actions and you'll see that they rarely felt guilty about it. At most they rationalised it as a necessary evil.

I know it's really hard to cenceive of doing your job properly unless you have a religious-like zeal, being a commie and all, but unlike commies real men just STFU and do their jobs. Especially in times of crisis where they are facing the ravening hordes of subhuman mongoloids that passed off for the soviet union, who outnumbered the jews and genuine russians about ten to one.

You might also be shocked that the vast majority of the support wasn't because there was sadistic hatred of minorities but because everyone recognized being swalloed by the commies was a sentence almost worse than death.

I mean guido's post on schindler's list really made me laugh, it almost seemed sardonic. Gosh it's a good thing that a coalition of jews and mongols of the soviet union, and the violent buck negroes and religious fanatics and strangelovian military leaders of the kwa got to worry my country like a rat. It was excellent that our borders got moved 400 miles west and everyone in those areas expelled in cattle cars and doomed to starve to death, but only AFTER a months long gang rape of the the most attractive women of our country by the mongol hordes. Just wanted to say sorry to all the people who we hurt by starting a war of aggression because we hate puppies so much, and thank the fine jews like spielberg for providing great and very historic entertainment and managing to make the holocaust an uplifting triumph of the human spirit!

http://rense.com/general24/rape.htm


And for extra lulz the polish people who got liberated had their boundary moved west...on both sides!



http://polandpoland.com/border_changes.html

With cattle cars all around, and starvation, even for the allies of the great and noble soviet union, champion of the little guy and not imperialistic at all.

Glad to see the good guys won! To add more gual you can't even complain about it if you want to be an employed person, not in jail, and not murdered by the mossad.