From Software future souls: open-world or not?

[REhorror]

I liked the labyrinthesques of Sekiro's level design.

I'd say Sekiro has even better design than Dark Souls 1 due to multi-hub and much more elaborate quest & side-quest system.

It's either that or AC mission-based design for me.

 

[gabel]

Sekiro's level design was great, but "labyrinthesques"?
Really?

I'd say Sekiro has even better design than Dark Souls [...]

Nah.

 

[REhorror]

Sekiro's level design was great, but "labyrinthesques"?
Really?

I'd say Sekiro has even better design than Dark Souls [...]

Nah.

I find Dark Souls 1 overrated as heck but somehow everyone and their mothers play it.
Sue me.

 

[Incognito/STK]

Moar Demon/Dark Souls, please. Less continuous maps padded with filler content and cloned bosses retardation. Oh wait, they did sell a lot of Elden Ring. Bummer.

 

[Falksi]

I'll go one further, not only should the next one not be Open World (Labyrinths with some open environments my preference), but it should also be entirely skill-based, and thus do away with levelling.

One of the things I love about old arcade-based games is that there's rarely a crutch to get you around things, you simply have to just genuinely Git Gud. Souls games claim that's what they do, but often people grind for stat boosts or beef up their weapons etc. It's essentially a none-cheat cheat.

It'd be great to see a game where that's all put on the backburner and progress is solely based on getting the challenges down. Obviously you could have different builds to experiment with to find your playstyle, but the actual leveling up part of that which dictates your power should be done away with.

Would certainly freshen things up at least, even if it doesn't work.

 

[Matador]

Labyrinthes with some open environments > open world. Just finished up The Gutter in DS2 and navigation is a game in itself. I don't know what the consensus is on that level, but it's fresh on my mind.

Gutter is best DS2 level for me.

 

[cvv]

It'd be great to see a game where that's all put on the backburner and progress is solely based on getting the challenges down.

Yes.

Sekiro kindda does that, with HP and damage increases locked behind bosses, and I fucking love that. That's what I call a proper fucking levelling - one boss, one level, instead of grinding hordes of cheap boring trash. Would be sweet to see it more.

 

[Ysaye]

So is the next game going to be the Brandon Sanderson collab? If so then it will be fixed linear swamp design all the way.

 

[Multidirectional]

Next open world game of theirs I'm definitely skipping. The strongest memory I have of Elden Ring is how fucking exhausted I was from it, even though I liked it for first 20-30 hours.

Labyrinthes with some open environments > open world. Just finished up The Gutter in DS2 and navigation is a game in itself.

Yes, levels themselves being the biggest challenge is what I miss from the days of DS and DS II. When these games became more about fighting bosses I started liking them a lot less. Their combat design is nowhere near good enough to support that kind of approach, especially when bosses become more and more ridiculous.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Yeah, ignore the relevant part then, faggot.

You begin your reply by arguing in bad faith
Why should I respond with anything other than, rightfully, shitting on your post?

But alright, I'll take a look at your "relevant part" bitch

And Dark Souls "open world" is totally like Elden Ring's.

But it's still open-world, isn't it?
F3 and FNV are also open-world, yet their experience is distinct. So is Gothic and Morrowind.
It's almost like, "open-world" isn't a singular monolithic game experience, but a design element that can take many different forms

Zelda

Literally open world since the very first game back in '86

retard

Please go ahead and explain how Zelda was actually never open-world
This should be fun...

 

[cvv]

Yes, levels themselves being the biggest challenge is what I miss from the days of DS and DS II. When these games became more about fighting bosses I started liking them a lot less.

Unfortunately the success of ER is due to open world + boss rush. ER is fundamentally a boss rush game and normie fans love that shit. That's why there's so much love for ER and DS3 in the nuFandom and so much hate for DS2.

 

[d1r]

Fuck OPEN WORLD.

 

[Multidirectional]

Yes, levels themselves being the biggest challenge is what I miss from the days of DS and DS II. When these games became more about fighting bosses I started liking them a lot less.

Unfortunately the success of ER is due to open world + boss rush. ER is fundamentally a boss rush game and normie fans love that shit. That's why there's so much love for ER and DS3 in the nuFandom and so much hate for DS2.

I wonder sometimes if Elden Ring 2 would sell as much as the first game, after all the newfags who go swept up by the hype experienced what a tedious slog ER actually is. I was actually curious enough to google normie discussions on reddit about it and there seems to be plenty of people saying that ER open world is boring shit and bosses are terribly designed. Hell, I even noticed some people claim they enjoyed Dark Souls II more than ER and those posts getting decent amount of likes. Of course, maybe there's even more people who think ER is "omg 10/10 masterpiss". I definitely am hoping that if they make Elden Ring 2 that shit will flop.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

ER style open world can go fuck itself.

I don't mind if the next game have an open area acting as a "hub" of sort connecting the "legacy dungeons" but 80% of the game area will still need to be "legacy dungeon" instead of the other way around.

E.g. I don't mind Limgrave (or even Limgrave + smaller location like that southern part of Limgrave) sized open area as a hub between dungeons where you can choose to go to which dungeon first (and the dungeons themselves might be interconnected to each other).

 

[Cheesedragon117]

I liked the labyrinthesques of Sekiro's level design.

I agree and I'd like to see it return, no matter what their next project is.

Sekiro's level design was great, but "labyrinthesques"?
Really?

I'd say Sekiro has even better design than Dark Souls [...]

Nah.

I got lost on where to go next no fewer than 3 times playing Sekiro. It's definitely "labyrinthesques" Also, comparing DS to Sekiro is just an unfair comparison, since DS is only about 70% of a complete game. And the other is a ninja game with grappling hooks and vertical world design. Better not to make that comparison.

Yes, levels themselves being the biggest challenge is what I miss from the days of DS and DS II. When these games became more about fighting bosses I started liking them a lot less.

Unfortunately the success of ER is due to open world + boss rush. ER is fundamentally a boss rush game and normie fans love that shit. That's why there's so much love for ER and DS3 in the nuFandom and so much hate for DS2.

I wonder sometimes if Elden Ring 2 would sell as much as the first game, after all the newfags who go swept up by the hype experienced what a tedious slog ER actually is. I was actually curious enough to google normie discussions on reddit about it and there seems to be plenty of people saying that ER open world is boring shit and bosses are terribly designed. Hell, I even noticed some people claim they enjoyed Dark Souls II more than ER and those posts getting decent amount of likes. Of course, maybe there's even more people who think ER is "omg 10/10 masterpiss". I definitely am hoping that if they make Elden Ring 2 that shit will flop.

Sometimes I wonder what universe you guys live in where ER had a bad open world, had bad bosses (aside from a few rotten eggs), or is a bad game in general... It's not a 10/10, but it's definitely a 9/10 in my book. Not only compared to other games, but also compared to the rest of From's catalogue (which I've played).

Or why you'd think that Fromsoft would even make "Elden Ring II" instead of trying something completely different. I guess that's just the culture of this forum. All critical, all the time, and if a game doesn't suit your tastes, it's objectively shit.

 

[cvv]

I was actually curious enough to google normie discussions on reddit about it and there seems to be plenty of people saying that ER open world is boring shit

Yea found this thread a while ago, a solid slice of fandom opinion.

https://www.reddit.com/r/fromsoftware/comments/17fztse/results_of_a_souls_community_poll_a_few/

TLDR:

1. DS3 is indeed very popular, even many people's favourite, most people don't mind the linearity and other underlying issues, love it for the bosses, music and for feeling great mechanically,
2. Relatively few people actually started with the OG Demon's Souls
3. DS2 is not as hated as I thought, it's many people's least favourite but they still consider it a solid game.
4. Sekiro, my second favourite game by FromSoft, didn't click with as many people as I thought
5. Bloodborne is popular, as expected, but not as many people's No. 1 as I thought. Quite a few even said it didn't click with them at all.
6. Quite a few people said they initially hated certain game, then went back to it and fell in love, interesting.
7. I thought I was a tiny minority in disliking Elden Ring's open world but apparently it's not as tiny as I thought. Still a minority, most likely.
8. Quite a few people did NOT play Demon's Souls or Bloodborne because they don't own a Playstation.

 

[Spike]

Sekiro's level design was great, but "labyrinthesques"?
Really?

I'd say Sekiro has even better design than Dark Souls [...]

Nah.

I find Dark Souls 1 overrated as heck but somehow everyone and their mothers play it.
Sue me.

It is overrated. Demons's Souls is superior. DaS is still great and a seminal moment in gaming, but DeS is the superior experience.

 

[Anonona]

But it's still open-world, isn't it?

I think the main difference between Dark Souls and Elden Ring in this case is that Dark Souls is build upon a series of interconnected levels while Elden Ring are big zones with point of interest and levels scattered through. I will argue that Dark Souls 1 to 3 are pretty much 3D Castlevania games (modern Castlevania mind you, from Symphony of the Night onwards) in how they are designed, with numerous interconnected and elaborated levels, each capped off with bosses and having a decent RPG systems and a focus on exploration to find new gear, items and even levels.

I'll argue thought that ER probably has the best open world of modern games, as it is incredible open, has some care in the different encounters you can find while exploring and exploration can be very rewarding when you find optional legacy dungeons, which are the highlight of the game, but still suffers from the same flaws all open world games have (repetitive content, reused enemies, tedium of traveling through the open world, etc). Is very telling that I replayed the game multiple times but beyond the first time I just rush towards the Legacy Dungeons.

 

[Multidirectional]

Sometimes I wonder what universe you guys live in where ER had a bad open world, had bad bosses (aside from a few rotten eggs), or is a bad game in general...

It's the universe where Miyazaki dick does not reach our mouths. I can only assume that people who think these retarded bosses make for good gameplay have never actually played a game with good combat system in their lives.. Maybe based on the feedback from people like you they will make their next game have even faster bosses with longer combos and your character be even slower. Then the fanboys can enjoy running away from the boss for 99% of the fight. No better combat gameplay than that.

 

[REhorror]

Sometimes I wonder what universe you guys live in where ER had a bad open world, had bad bosses (aside from a few rotten eggs), or is a bad game in general...

It's the universe where Miyazaki dick does not reach our mouths. I can only assume that people who think these retarded bosses make for good gameplay have never actually played a game with good combat system in their lives.. Maybe based on the feedback from people like you they will make their next game have even faster bosses with longer combos and your character be even slower. Then the fanboys can enjoy running away from the boss for 99% of the fight. No better combat gameplay than that.

ER is the one Souls game with maximum combo potential, and teleportation special move.
Man, get better.

 

[Multidirectional]

ER is the one Souls game with maximum combo potential, and teleportation special move.
Man, get better.

I never saw any teleportation special move. And no matter what else I tried I could not achieve a fight with any of ER later bosses that felt like a proper back-and-forth dance and it always devolved into rolling or running around like a dipshit waiting for an occasional couple second opening. If the combat of ER is actually designed to be properly interactive, like in other games with good combat, then it completely flew over my head and I guess that game is beyond my capabilities. I'll stick to simpler stuff like Nioh 2 or DMC V then, those games suit noobs like me better.

 

[REhorror]

ER is the one Souls game with maximum combo potential, and teleportation special move.
Man, get better.

I never saw any teleportation special move. And no matter what else I tried I could not achieve a fight with any of ER later bosses that felt like a proper back-and-forth dance and it always devolved into rolling or running around like a dipshit waiting for an occasional couple second opening. If the combat of ER is actually designed to be properly interactiive, like in other games with good combat, then it completely flew over my head and I guess that game is beyond my capabilities. I'll stick to simpler stuff like Nioh 2 or DMC V then, those games suit noobs like me better.

Bro, you don't know Bloodhound Step or even Bloodhound Slash, you literally turn invisible/teleport around.

ER is high fantasy compared to Dark Souls 1, it's pretty much focusing on combo and using elaborate weapon arts or magic.

DaS1 encourages somewhat defensive gameplay, but since Dark Souls 3, it's always good to be on the offensive, and ER also follows this trend.

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

those are the kid wheels skills though

 

[REhorror]

Movement skills are my jam, I have always hated being slow in action games.

 

[Multidirectional]

Bro, you don't know Bloodhound Step or even Bloodhound Slash, you literally turn invisible/teleport around.

ER is high fantasy compared to Dark Souls 1, it's pretty much focusing on combo and using elaborate weapon arts or magic.

DaS1 encourages somewhat defensive gameplay, but since Dark Souls 3, it's always good to be on the offensive, and ER also follows this trend.

If these skills are how the game should be played than I don't understand why I didn't have them by default or why it was possible for me to miss them. Care to explain what you mean by "combo" ? I know what that shit means in Nioh or DMC and I'm happy to utilize it there, but I have no clue what "combo" is in ER. In my experience I was almost always nearly out of stamina by the time I could attack the bosses, from all the dodging or running around and I barely had enough for couple hits. Hell, even those couple hits would often get interrupted by another massive sperg out from the bosses, or I couldn't land them because they suddenly start jumping around all over the arena by the time I'm in position to attack.