Squeenix Final Fantasy XIII

[abnaxus]

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/619315-final-fantasy-xiii-2/62985456

Glorious, glorious.

 

[Drakron]

Plot and writing are still bad but overall its bit better game than XIII. Personally I would recommend to skip XIII and go straight to XIII-2.

Well I recommend not playing any.

FF XIII plot was pants on retarded with everyone being retarded because plot, Spoony is pretty much on the mark.

FF XIII-2 is the standard "fate" JRPG plot, there might be some twists but Not-Sephiroth and Kingdom Hearts Reject are so obvious were eth fuck it goes, worst Lighting Dress-up is kinda dependent on XII-2 because of the whole Valhalla thing and all that shit as if you miss it you miss out of why there is a fucking Kindoms Hearts reject and why the fuck Sephiroth is a pedo, sure it gives some explanation but its more "wait? you didnt play -2 and you playing this? why?"

You can play FF XIII-2 and Lighting Dress-up without playing FF XIII since you miss nothing, this is how devoid of anything is FF XIII is, if someone wants to play Lighting Dress-Up he doesnt need to play FF XIII to know anything, Lighting have no personality whatsoever or anything really happens that is necessary to know anything and of XIII and XIII-2, its XIII-2 that is more plot relevant as FF XIII have no plot, only retardation.

 

[Levenmouth]

I don't mind the plot all that much. Don't get me wrong, it's really not good, but if you find joy in little things like Snow being regularly assaulted by every single female character in the game, it's just about okay enough. What is rather jarring is how the game is structured. It's not even that it consists of corridors, but that they're corridors with monsters and nothing else. At least they could have put in an occasional NPC to tell you about how his cabbages are being mutilated. I guess I'm not very far in, but it's just so lonely...

 

[Machocruz]

The thing about these XIII games is that the production values are so good, so that when you are away from it you remember how nice things look, feel and sound (although I find the art direction an incredibly mixed bag). The slick menus and their crystal clean button confirm sound fx. I think you all know what I'm talking about. It's that same thing that Diablo 3 has compared to other, and arguably better loot crawlers. And you think (or maybe just me) "Hmm, maybe I wasn't in the right mood or something" and that you want to give it another go. "Maybe I should give Xiii-2 and LR a try." But then reality comes back to the fore and I just don't find Paradigm Shift engaging outside of boss fights, and even then I'd rather play Tales of Something.

tl;dr What the hell is Lightening Returns about? Is it an action game, or menu driven? I'm itching for some SE shinies.

 

[Perkel]

Now when i think about it i can't seem to decide which is best jrpg. Every jrpg seems to have some critical flaws one way or another. FFIX would be close though if it would have different ending.

 

[Martius]

Well I recommend not playing any.

I should probably add at end of my last post "if you must play anything from XIII trilogy". XIII-2 have some minor improvements but its hard to make something good from bad foundation.

tl;dr What the hell is Lightening Returns about? Is it an action game, or menu driven? I'm itching for some SE shinies.

Strange combination of both. Being good in combat needs more skill and taking care of time but its still limiting by pseudo atb and changing costumes to regenerate it. I just played demo so I cant tell anything more since it pretty much combat tutorial.

 

[Straight elf]

I tried to play this game, but did not get far due to super retarded story. I have played some Japanese games before (FFs and Personas) and they always had a bit naive narrative but this looks like someone spent 100s of millions on production value and then let his 8 years old son to do the writing.

Like there is this very evil government, which decided to transport some people to a place where they will die for sure because they found a being from that place in the neighborhood but that's just what they want you to think, because the government really wants to kill everyone for lulz. Luckily there are some street dudes with big muscles who are like real heroes but they have real feelings too. Terrible.

As if it wasn't known that FF 13 and sequels are the worst part of FF franchise (amongst single player games at least)? So it is suprising that there is still someone unprepared, who didn't eliminated all his expectations before trying, since it is the only way to play this game.

Still it is unfair to blaim all on the story. It is combination of retarded story, mostly annoying characters and gameplay, that most of the time is just about running in a monotonous tunnel with locked out mechanics, which allowed Square to reach the new lowest point of their career.

Exactly! To me the story is something like "the evil Hitler guy says he moves all the Jews to concentration camps in Poland to die, pretending it's necessary for ensuring safety of the nation, while in fact he is just shooting many of them at the border". Also why is it that Japs are so super weird around women? Can't they maybe find someone who actually has experienced a normal relationship and doesn't act all 12 years old about it?

 

[Perkel]

I see you are lttp on japan.
Japanese people don't have sex anymore.
And we are talking now about Japanese devs which multiplies this problem.

 

[Machocruz]

Japanese millennials are referred to as Grass Eaters. I think Kojima should make a game about it.

I'd give my life
not for honor, but for waifuuuuu

 

[abnaxus]

Japanese millennials are referred to as Grass Eaters. I think Kojima should make a game about it.

I'd give my life
not for honor, but for waifuuuuu

 

[Martius]

Or movie "Her" if you ever wanted to have interactive waifu in phone.

 

[Machocruz]

Doesn't he slay that ass though? Grass eaters don't even touch boob accidentally.

 

[Grinolf]

Exactly! To me the story is something like "the evil Hitler guy says he moves all the Jews to concentration camps in Poland to die, pretending it's necessary for ensuring safety of the nation, while in fact he is just shooting many of them at the border". Also why is it that Japs are so super weird around women? Can't they maybe find someone who actually has experienced a normal relationship and doesn't act all 12 years old about it?

Well, that guy should not only know about relationship, but also have a some writting skills, and as was already said this combination isn't that common in Japan, where even a persons who clearly posssess often unable to find a middle ground and instead ending up into one extreme or another. Still, if I put some effort, I should remember an examples where were portrayed more or less adequate relationship, but they would be only exceptions anyway, so not really worth an effort.
Not to mention that with the right use said extremes could provide an entertainment in their own way, but that limited to comedy, subversion and deconstuction purposes. Playing them in the straight way (like FF13 did), by someone who completely lack a writting talent (like the one/ones who wrote FF13 are) is just a receipt for a disaster.

 

[Tehdagah]

FF XIII plot was pants on retarded with everyone being retarded because plot, Spoony is pretty much on the mark.

I do remember him ranting a lot about trivial things like "this outfit makes no sense lol" and "this giant robot armed with saws makes no sense lol". Then I closed the video because he's pretty unfunny.

 

[Jick Magger]

Yeah, his review for it is kinda weak, though he does touch up on alot of the storys weaknesses (i.e. how needlessly esoteric the fal'cie are).

 

[Perkel]

To be fair fal'cie lore is a bit interesting. Problem was the story not lore.
fal'cie in that lore work as old human gods each having their own thing in world. One is digging tunnels other something else and so on. Concept is easy to understand.
Problem was whole l'cie thing and especially ending. If they could remove whole brand buisness and focus on for example political struggle of two worlds that would be much more interesting.

I heard that story got major reworks and supposed to be different. Which isn't something new to FF as they usually start with good story just to butcher it because there is someone in directors seat who don't like that that are no emo kids (like FFXII)

edit:

on a side note. Due now to obscene amount of free time i started to learn object based programming (starting with java going then to C++). I fucking shall make my own tactical combat game if no one wants to do it properly (talking about game like JA2). But holy fuck it needs at least 14 months to learn basics.

 

[Raghar]

Why 14 months? You need to learn memory handling, arrays, dataflow. And don't forget about algorithms. Then there is the problem that algorithms for quite correct and efficient combat resolution are not even described in books...
Also don't forget to learn stuff like RADIX sort, or pəˈtrɪʃə ˈtrē. Majority of large strategies are using bit manipulations shifts, or, masks, multiple threads. When you know all the previous stuff, including dataflow, threads are actually pretty easy (or I have a talent).

 

[Perkel]

because 14 months is supposed time to get "basics" of programming when you learn stuff from a book for beginners. And i heard that C+ is a word of hurt if you start from that.

I mean i can copy simple stuff i can wrap my head on java or C# syntax i can do simple tetris like game in java but anything more advanced and i am laying on floor let alone figure out what i did wrong. At same time i need to learn discrete math because i heard that is what you need for programming the most.

This is why i need to learn basics first and then build upon that.

You seems to be knowledgeable. What do you propose to start with ? I heard python is widely used in game programming (like Unity) and people seems to think it is much easier to learn than for example C+

I heard also that i shouldn't fallow only one language as fallowing for example Java, C+ and some other language can sometimes better explain how things work and which language "fits" me for learning purpose.

Also i noticed ton of books that people recommend are from ~2000 which seems to be imo ancient in computer space let alone any game programming.

I know there are few newb friendly ways to deal with programming and game creation like blueprints in Unreal or Unity stuff but imo more or less without basic programming i will hit walls which i will not be able to deal with.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

Now when i think about it i can't seem to decide which is best jrpg. Every jrpg seems to have some critical flaws one way or another. FFIX would be close though if it would have different ending.

My pick would be Ni No Kuni: Wrath of the White Witch. It is an incredible game in so many ways, mainly the visuals and the sound (like so many other JRPGs I guess, but the difference here is that it is heavily influenced by Studio Ghibli - they even made some of the animated cutscenes). The story is quite simple and the sidequests even more so, but it is the first JRPG I've actually completed, and the look of the game is just so stunning.

I've never completed the Final Fantasy's. I'm making an effort to complete XIII now, once that is done I'll go back and finish VIII and then VII.

I played a bit of IX on the Playstation but didn't like the Jawa guy, or the big fat queen (she creeped me out a little).

 

[Drakron]

I do remember him ranting a lot about trivial things like "this outfit makes no sense lol" and "this giant robot armed with saws makes no sense lol". Then I closed the video because he's pretty unfunny.

He goes over the game and over the "plot" of the game so there is no "why doesnt the plot make sense" video as its all across them.

But in a recap, the f-cid decide that oh they want to talk to God so in order to do that they figure out "lets kill everyone in Cocoon" so since they apparently cannot kill then directly (outside transport monsters into Cocoon) they decide the way is for giving L-cid the focus of killing the Pope ... without telling the ... now ...

So the Pope eventually shows up and tells them to kill him because it will destroy Coccoon, at that point they say no and attack him, now he could very much just let himself get killed but nope and they could very well fuck off and do shit but nope.

This is the major issue, the story doesnt make sense became they make a big deal out of the Focus to end up leading to a payoff ... its just do this incredible stupid thing and the Pope TELL THEM to do it, I am sure there is a plot about Orphan but they kinda forgot and makes no sense because its not the Pope telling then to kill Orphan and then trying to kill the Pope to destroy Coccon because he keeps egging then to attack him and they fucking do it.

The bad is not the plot per say that on a concept level works, its just HOW they go around it and the stupid dialog, it just becomes nonsensical and the pacing is just fucking terrible and this is the kindest I can be, take FF VIII plot that is very convulsed but at the end you knew exactly what you were doing there and why, heck you collect the pieces the moment Edea spills the beams with everything else being flat out told you at later stages to fill the gaps.

You want another confusing story? Ar Tonelico 1 and 2 (3 sucks, fuck it) and 2 is one hell of a joyride with a end of the world story, it also have a ingame encyclopedia so you can check terms but its never used to explain the plot yet FF XIII ends up relying on that to know what the fuck are they talking about.

 

[Duraframe300]

I do remember him ranting a lot about trivial things like "this outfit makes no sense lol" and "this giant robot armed with saws makes no sense lol". Then I closed the video because he's pretty unfunny.

He goes over the game and over the "plot" of the game so there is no "why doesnt the plot make sense" video as its all across them.

But in a recap, the f-cid decide that oh they want to talk to God so in order to do that they figure out "lets kill everyone in Cocoon" so since they apparently cannot kill then directly (outside transport monsters into Cocoon) they decide the way is for giving L-cid the focus of killing the Pope ... without telling the ... now ...

So the Pope eventually shows up and tells them to kill him because it will destroy Coccoon, at that point they say no and attack him, now he could very much just let himself get killed but nope and they could very well fuck off and do shit but nope.

This is the major issue, the story doesnt make sense became they make a big deal out of the Focus to end up leading to a payoff ... its just do this incredible stupid thing and the Pope TELL THEM to do it, I am sure there is a plot about Orphan but they kinda forgot and makes no sense because its not the Pope telling then to kill Orphan and then trying to kill the Pope to destroy Coccon because he keeps egging then to attack him and they fucking do it.

The bad is not the plot per say that on a concept level works, its just HOW they go around it and the stupid dialog, it just becomes nonsensical and the pacing is just fucking terrible and this is the kindest I can be, take FF VIII plot that is very convulsed but at the end you knew exactly what you were doing there and why, heck you collect the pieces the moment Edea spills the beams with everything else being flat out told you at later stages to fill the gaps.

You want another confusing story? Ar Tonelico 1 and 2 (3 sucks, fuck it) and 2 is one hell of a joyride with a end of the world story, it also have a ingame encyclopedia so you can check terms but its never used to explain the plot yet FF XIII ends up relying on that to know what the fuck are they talking about.

I disagree. And it doesn't remotly happen this way.

 

[Duraframe300]

The only big complaint I personally have about XIII's plot (Apart from that not much happens at all except charachter development is the ending which until the sequel was pretty much PowerofLoveTM.

I do not understand the complaints that it was too complicated or makes no sense

Here's the plot of XIII

Chapters 1-8

- People get thrown in a *no-way out* situation (Either 1: Get turned into a monster, 2: Die, 3: Go the most complicated route with the big danger that you end up as one, but as reward get turned into crystall on the off-chance they get resurrected someday)
- They are all dealing with it in different ways *Sazh resigning to his fate and Vanille following him (out of concern)* *Lightning deciding to angrily lash out until realizing that doing that in front of a 14 year old traumatized kid may not be the best idea* *Snow escaping in hope that Sarah couldn't have given them such a terrible fate* until they all get over their specific problems.

Chapters 9-11

- Getting told by a really smug god that they have been lied to all their lives, have a predestined fate and they are basically prepped up to be able to fight a previously unknown god that is basically the *heart* of cocoon by turning into a beast (Before that the most important Fal-Cie was considered Eden (who Lightning initially was after) as to resurrect a greater god. They do adress why the other gods just can't kill him themselves, but I don't remember the exact reason.
- Afterwards they get sent to the alien world below for a larger amount of time. There they train and rethink everything only to find not one solution. Smug god shows up and asks them if they are finally ready to accept that they are fucked.

Chapter 11-13

- They finally do say *Fuck it, let's just end this* and go back *with the Gods help*. Of course they still want to do therightthingTM, but in the end you usually reach your destination if you go on a path (Especially if you let yourself be forced in doing so)
- Stupid *POWEROFLOVE* ending where Vanille and Fang fulfill their focus, somehow the others escape it and VFang turn into crystal juuuuuuuuuuuuuust right to save cocoon. (Though millions probably still died)

So, really. Nothing happens from the end of chapter 2 apart from them realizing that they're fucked, but still want to cling to the faint chance of a pot of gold at the end.

There's nothing complicated or nonsensical about it (until the end) It is what it is. I do commend Square for going the *Everything is shit* route and avoiding any real positive moment in the game, even if they still did fuck up in the end. Other than that it made the plot IMO TOO simple and the lore allowed for much more than that. (Funny enough they went the exact opposite extreme for the sequels)


Overall, imo, XIII is nothing special with a really shitty ending. I don't outright hate it, but I am not happy with it either.

 

[Duraframe300]

Forgot one critisism. In no small part due to the linear nature of the game most/nearly all locations didn't contribute shit to the narrative side of the game. (Pretty Backdrops)

 

[Levenmouth]

The only big complaint I personally have about XIII's plot (Apart from that not much happens at all except charachter development is the ending which until the sequel was pretty much PowerofLoveTM.

That's basically 95% of all anime and quite a few FFs too.

Forgot one critisism. In no small part due to the linear nature of the game most/nearly all locations didn't contribute shit to the narrative side of the game. (Pretty Backdrops)

Yes, this is my main issue with the game too. Everything between cutscenes is completely irrelevant. As stupid as it sounds, I might have actually preferred the Jennifer Hepler's "skip gameplay" button here. The corridors look nice and all, but I'm really not entirely sure what point they have, if any besides padding out the game. I don't really remember having this issue with FF7-10.

 

[Duraframe300]

The only big complaint I personally have about XIII's plot (Apart from that not much happens at all except charachter development is the ending which until the sequel was pretty much PowerofLoveTM.

That's basically 95% of all anime and quite a few FFs too.

Yeah, but I got upset here more about it, because it was so strongly in contrast with everything that happened before.