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Fallout Fallout 2 is boring

Fallout 2 sucks?

  • Yes

    Votes: 28 19.3%
  • No

    Votes: 117 80.7%

  • Total voters
    145

Black Angel

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Size of the world
How would you scale the world of Fallout 1 to that of 2? As of now, FO1's world is just perfect, just right. It's not too small, nor too big.

No need for this since, like I mentioned above, the world of Fallout 1 is just perfect in scale and size.

Politics between communities
What kind of politics you think would be there at the time of Fallout 1? There are no center of the powerplay like Redding in the middle of Vault City-NCR-New Reno. Besides, at the time, each community is still trying to survive and get by, so it make sense each community just trade with one another, and the only plausible politics is that of the community's internal (like Regulators-Blade, Gizmo-Killian, Decker's shenanigans at the Hub).
 

Sykar

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Size of the world
How would you scale the world of Fallout 1 to that of 2? As of now, FO1's world is just perfect, just right. It's not too small, nor too big.

No need for this since, like I mentioned above, the world of Fallout 1 is just perfect in scale and size.

Politics between communities
What kind of politics you think would be there at the time of Fallout 1? There are no center of the powerplay like Redding in the middle of Vault City-NCR-New Reno. Besides, at the time, each community is still trying to survive and get by, so it make sense each community just trade with one another, and the only plausible politics is that of the community's internal (like Regulators-Blade, Gizmo-Killian, Decker's shenanigans at the Hub).

Hub, Junkyard and Bonyard could have been easily in some trade routes. Gizmo could have been for example been trying to expand his gambling empire into other locations. Hub could have tried to establish its influence one way or the other as well through water merchants for example.
There could have been easily 2-3 more small towns in other parts of the map.

440

As we can see there is plenty of empty useless space where 2-3 small towns could have been added like for example a fishing village.

It might be perfect for you. That does not mean it is perfect for everyone. "Perfection" is a very vague ideal. To give just one concrete example, what is perfection in a game like basketball? Scoring 100% of your teams points at 100% efficiency? Everyone would know that this is impossible. Is it "be like Mike?" but then again he neither led the NBA in terms of records, that would be Wilt Chamberlain nor was he the greatest winner, that would be Russell. Be like Russell? Out of all the top 10 all time great he was by far the worst offensive player at a career 14 ppg and sub 45% FG which is just terrible for a center.
Do you see where I am going with this?
 

Black Angel

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Hub, Junkyard and Bonyard could have been easily in some trade routes.
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Guard_the_caravans

As we can see there is plenty of empty useless space where 2-3 small towns could have been added like for example a fishing village.
But is there healthy, edible fish at the time of Fallout 1?

It might be perfect for you. That does not mean it is perfect for everyone. "Perfection" is a very vague ideal. To give just one concrete example, what is perfection in a game like basketball? Scoring 100% of your teams points at 100% efficiency? Everyone would know that this is impossible. Is it "be like Mike?" but then again he neither led the NBA in terms of records, that would be Wilt Chamberlain nor was he the greatest winner, that would be Russell. Be like Russell? Out of all the top 10 all time great he was by far the worst offensive player at a career 14 ppg and sub 45% FG which is just terrible for a center.
Do you see where I am going with this?
Yeah, yeah, but when I said 'perfect', I mean perfect for what it tried to achieve. Thanks to it scale, every settlement is connected one way or another. Yes, could've used 2-3 more towns, but for what it's worth it was perfect the way it was.
 

Sykar

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Hub, Junkyard and Bonyard could have been easily in some trade routes.
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Guard_the_caravans

As we can see there is plenty of empty useless space where 2-3 small towns could have been added like for example a fishing village.
But is there healthy, edible fish at the time of Fallout 1?

It might be perfect for you. That does not mean it is perfect for everyone. "Perfection" is a very vague ideal. To give just one concrete example, what is perfection in a game like basketball? Scoring 100% of your teams points at 100% efficiency? Everyone would know that this is impossible. Is it "be like Mike?" but then again he neither led the NBA in terms of records, that would be Wilt Chamberlain nor was he the greatest winner, that would be Russell. Be like Russell? Out of all the top 10 all time great he was by far the worst offensive player at a career 14 ppg and sub 45% FG which is just terrible for a center.
Do you see where I am going with this?
Yeah, yeah, but when I said 'perfect', I mean perfect for what it tried to achieve. Thanks to it scale, every settlement is connected one way or another. Yes, could've used 2-3 more towns, but for what it's worth it was perfect the way it was.

A generic quest does not really make intricate policies. What does the ability to eat fish has to do with it and would it been difficult to implement some fish dishes? And as I have said before, perfect you, lacking for me. You can argue this until the sky falls on our heads but it will not change my opnion that FO 1 was far from perfect in any aspect, same goes for FO 2.
 

Black Angel

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A generic quest does not really make intricate policies.
You're saying specifically that Hub-Junktown-Boneyard could've been in a trade route, well they are and more. I don't comment on your later example of Gizmo and the Hub expanding their influence because I don't have opinions on that.

What does the ability to eat fish has to do with it and would it been difficult to implement some fish dishes?
Look, all I'm asking for is if the devs has any commentary or if there's any lore implication that fishes exist at the time of Fallout 1 as healthy and edible to justify fishing villages.

No need for the car? Are you fucking crazy.
*ignition* - wroom wroooom - cowboy music playing ding ding duh ding - tiny little car in the HUD, riding through the desert...are you fucking crazy?
???????
 

Sigourn

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But it is not and non isometric turn-based games are inherently inferior to isometric turn-based games :smug:

Not when it is Fallout: New Vegas against Fallout and Fallout 2. :cool: Combat in the isometric games is so shit and boring that New Vegas wins by virtue of it being faster. Anyone who thinks FO1 and FO2 have good combat hasn't played enough turn based games. Even Wasteland 2, as much as I didn't enjoy it, had much more enjoyable combat. At least it was more about thinking and not so much about savescumming because of bullshit criticals from dozens of enemies.

Because the Codex is butthurt about it, I'd say it's easier for me to argue why Fallout is much better than Fallout 2: it is a more focused experience, it captured the Fallout setting flawlessly (unsurprisingly, since it is the first game of the series) but also made it UNIQUE. The story was basic but it worked, the settlements made sense, there were no in-your-face bad jokes or pop culture references, very few stupid characters (I can't think of any at the moment), the combat was serviceable and usually not bullshit.

Fallout 2 arrives, and does all the following in one single game:

- Drives the original developers away (Boyarsky, Tim Cain, among others) because of the radically different direction is taking.
- It goes overboard with the amount of different shit there is to do. A lot of it nonsensical, a lot of it very basic (LOOK AT THE AMAZING WRITING, "FIND THE WHORE KILLER", "I CONFESS", Jesus Christ what a waste of my time), and not particularly intriguing or interesting. A lot of it very childish as well.
- The writing is all over the place. The more RPGs I play, the more of "writing" I've come to understand (and PS:T is still unsurpassed), and FO2... ugh. Sometimes it works very well, other times you have NPCs spouting random pop culture nonsense. That shit is fine if you see it on a sign (Maltese Falcon), not when the characters are spouting out iconic lines. JUST THE DIALOGUE WITH RENESCO IS THE WORST DIALOGUE IN FALLOUT 2. What the fuck were they thinking.
- Breaking the 4th wall all the damn time. It's not "funny", it's retarded.
- Retard characters like the coffin ghouls. So much for "Kid in a Fridge" when these two characters can survive without water or food for months (as said by the one in Golgotha).
- In other words: it can't find a consistent tone, something which VERY MUCH can be found in both Fallout and Fallout: New Vegas (henceafter referred to as "Fallout 2").

Among others. I'm not implying Fallout 2 isn't any different, but what Fallout 2 has is that these type of issues are either minor or non-existing. The meme Fallout 2 has all of this in spades.
 

Sykar

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A generic quest does not really make intricate policies.
You're saying specifically that Hub-Junktown-Boneyard could've been in a trade route, well they are and more. I don't comment on your later example of Gizmo and the Hub expanding their influence because I don't have opinions on that.

What does the ability to eat fish has to do with it and would it been difficult to implement some fish dishes?
Look, all I'm asking for is if the devs has any commentary or if there's any lore implication that fishes exist at the time of Fallout 1 as healthy and edible to justify fishing villages.

No need for the car? Are you fucking crazy.
*ignition* - wroom wroooom - cowboy music playing ding ding duh ding - tiny little car in the HUD, riding through the desert...are you fucking crazy?
???????

They have clean water and irrigation in the middle of a nuclear desert yet fresh fish would be a stretch. Ok.
 

Black Angel

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They have clean water and irrigation in the middle of a nuclear desert yet fresh fish would be a stretch. Ok.
Water is still pretty scarce at the time, to the point of Water Merchants being able to force the wasteland to use caps as currency, while their irrigation system is still pretty limited since you can use Science check to the farmer in Shady Sands. Jeez, why don't you look up the source material instead? This is what I find looking up the wikia http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fish_(Fallout:_New_Vegas)
wiki said:
However, according to various wastelanders' account in the first two Fallout games, many fish caught in Pacific Ocean were mutated by radiation, showing abnormalities such as three eyes, or gigantic physical size.
Fishes are perfectly edible food source in New Vegas because the Mojave landscape was practically untouched but by few nuclear warheads, thanks to Mr. House. Meanwhile, in Fallout 1....
 

Sigourn

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Fishes are perfectly edible food source in New Vegas because the Mojave landscape was practically untouched but by few nuclear warheads, thanks to Mr. House. Meanwhile, in Fallout 1....

I always wondered if fish in the Mojave was a mistake from Obsidian, given that you can ask Cass if she even knows what fish look like. Apparently I didn't connect the dots, thanks!
 

Zboj Lamignat

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It's always hard to take people seriously when they complain about the stupidity in Fallout 3 then turn around and praise Fallout 2.
I guess this might happen if you try really, really, really hard to pretend that F1 didn't have a proportionally high number of all the inane references and stupid jokes even in a middle of serious situations and that those things are an integral part of the original Fallout series.

Also, fixed:

It's always hard to take people seriously when they complain about the stupidity in Fallout 3 then turn around and praise Fallout NV.
 
Last edited:

Zboj Lamignat

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What I would put in FO 1 from FO 2?

Companion management
Size of the world
Additional weapons
Atachments
Car
Some of the quests
Politics between communities

Just from the top of my head.

The only major gripe I had with FO 2 were the overabundance of cultural references.
Agree with most of that, politics between communities is the definite highlight for me. Still, there are quite a few bigger things that should be added:

1. Despite the skill system still being far from perfect (way to many skills that aren't too useful), the improvement is still huuuge over F1, where it was completely broken.
2. All the weapon categories (outside of thrown) are viable and fun to use.
3. More quality of life improvements. Anyone who actually played these games a lot knows how huge being able to push a character out of the way is.
4. Actual quest chains that are interwoven and span over big parts of the game (outside of the main quest).
5. Combat system is still pretty shallow (though I still find it fun), but there are much more interesting shootouts and way more enemies that actually pose a threat to a high level character.
 

Sykar

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They have clean water and irrigation in the middle of a nuclear desert yet fresh fish would be a stretch. Ok.
Water is still pretty scarce at the time, to the point of Water Merchants being able to force the wasteland to use caps as currency, while their irrigation system is still pretty limited since you can use Science check to the farmer in Shady Sands. Jeez, why don't you look up the source material instead? This is what I find looking up the wikia http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fish_(Fallout:_New_Vegas)
wiki said:
However, according to various wastelanders' account in the first two Fallout games, many fish caught in Pacific Ocean were mutated by radiation, showing abnormalities such as three eyes, or gigantic physical size.
Fishes are perfectly edible food source in New Vegas because the Mojave landscape was practically untouched but by few nuclear warheads, thanks to Mr. House. Meanwhile, in Fallout 1....

And what would happen if they had decided that fish was eadible? There is nothing "logical" about this decision it was made arbitrarily made to fit their momentarily made up narrative to explain why there is no fish. It is just as easy to say that some fish are edible in some regions so this is not an argument whatsoever.
Game developers are humans, not gods. What they say is not gospel for anything.
 

Sigourn

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It's always hard to take people seriously when they complain about the stupidity in Fallout 3 then turn around and praise Fallout 2.
I guess this might happen if you try really, really, really hard to pretend that F1 didn't have a proportionally high number of all the inane references and stupid jokes even in a middle of serious situations and that those things are an integral part of the original Fallout series.

Also, fixed:

It's always hard to take people seriously when they complain about the stupidity in Fallout 3 then turn around and praise Fallout NV.

Let's see:

- Fallout 2: Scientology. Covering a town in shit. Ghosts, ghouls that live in coffins for months (I was willing to believe that maybe the one in the sarcophagus was just a gameplay limitation and that he was supposed to be enclosed for a couple days only, then I found the one in Golgotha and all went to shit...). Pop culture references every fucking step of the way, with people shouting out the most random of dialogue lines. 4th wall breaking all the time, complete inconsistency on the writing. Talking Deathclaws, plants, and intelligent radscorpions.
- Fallout: New Vegas: Bright Brotherhood, possibly. The Kings? Even though the whole Elvis aspect is VERY secondary to them and they are otherwise a very serious faction. There's Fisto, but sex robots are a real life thing (and will hopefully be fully functional in a few decades, fingers crossed).

For the record, the most "uncalled for" line I've ever saw in New Vegas was "I'm taking this basket of cakes to my grandmother's house", which was funny because it was sarcasm and not literally "YOU ARE PLAYING FALLOUT 2, NOT A ROBOMECH GAME HAHAHA" or random shit like Godfather or Goodfellas lines. The part with the dwarf in Broken Hills felt straight out of Monkey Island.

I honestly thought "too many pop culture references" was a meme, but it was very, very much true. Some of them were actually funny (I mentioned once coming across King Arthur looking for the Holy Hand Grenade, got a laugh out of me when he aimed at the same spot I had aimed for the Holy Hand Greande's location), but most of them are absolutely nonsensical.

New Vegas had the decency of leaving out the wackiest ones for Wild Wasteland encounters.
 

Sykar

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It's always hard to take people seriously when they complain about the stupidity in Fallout 3 then turn around and praise Fallout 2.
I guess this might happen if you try really, really, really hard to pretend that F1 didn't have a proportionally high number of all the inane references and stupid jokes even in a middle of serious situations and that those things are an integral part of the original Fallout series.

Also, fixed:

It's always hard to take people seriously when they complain about the stupidity in Fallout 3 then turn around and praise Fallout NV.

Let's see:

- Fallout 2: Scientology. Covering a town in shit. Ghosts, ghouls that live in coffins for months (I was willing to believe that maybe the one in the sarcophagus was just a gameplay limitation and that he was supposed to be enclosed for a couple days only, then I found the one in Golgotha and all went to shit...). Pop culture references every fucking step of the way, with people shouting out the most random of dialogue lines. 4th wall breaking all the time, complete inconsistency on the writing. Talking Deathclaws, plants, and intelligent radscorpions.
- Fallout: New Vegas: Bright Brotherhood, possibly. The Kings? Even though the whole Elvis aspect is VERY secondary to them and they are otherwise a very serious faction. There's Fisto, but sex robots are a real life thing (and will hopefully be fully functional in a few decades, fingers crossed).

For the record, the most "uncalled for" line I've ever saw in New Vegas was "I'm taking this basket of cakes to my grandmother's house", which was funny because it was sarcasm and not literally "YOU ARE PLAYING FALLOUT 2, NOT A ROBOMECH GAME HAHAHA" or random shit like Godfather or Goodfellas lines. The part with the dwarf in Broken Hills felt straight out of Monkey Island.

I honestly thought "too many pop culture references" was a meme, but it was very, very much true. Some of them were actually funny (I mentioned once coming across King Arthur looking for the Holy Hand Grenade, got a laugh out of me when he aimed at the same spot I had aimed for the Holy Hand Greande's location), but most of them are absolutely nonsensical.

New Vegas had the decency of leaving out the wackiest ones for Wild Wasteland encounters.

You are misrepresenting what happened in FO2. Only 1 ghoul was in a casket for months. It was also meant to be a humorous quest line. Likewise there was only one ghost and the quest is easily missable/ignorable. There were not pop culture references every fucking step. There too many but spare us the idiotic hyperboles. There was one talking Deathclaw and how was that any worse than for example the Master in FO 1 who was a weirdly fused human to a Vault Overseer chair/computer? Goris at least has a believable explanation being a test subject. What was the Masters excuse again to end up like that? Oh right "FEV" the magic goo which can turn anything into everything.
There were exactly one intelligent plant and radscorpion in the game and it was again meant to not be taken too seriously.
 

undecaf

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Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2
Always funny in these Fallout discussions pissing contests how people dramatize their tripping over a few bad jokes.
 

Zboj Lamignat

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It's always hard to take people seriously when they complain about the stupidity in Fallout 3 then turn around and praise Fallout 2.
I guess this might happen if you try really, really, really hard to pretend that F1 didn't have a proportionally high number of all the inane references and stupid jokes even in a middle of serious situations and that those things are an integral part of the original Fallout series.

Also, fixed:

It's always hard to take people seriously when they complain about the stupidity in Fallout 3 then turn around and praise Fallout NV.

Let's see:

- Fallout 2: Scientology. Covering a town in shit. Ghosts, ghouls that live in coffins for months (I was willing to believe that maybe the one in the sarcophagus was just a gameplay limitation and that he was supposed to be enclosed for a couple days only, then I found the one in Golgotha and all went to shit...). Pop culture references every fucking step of the way, with people shouting out the most random of dialogue lines. 4th wall breaking all the time, complete inconsistency on the writing. Talking Deathclaws, plants, and intelligent radscorpions.
- Fallout: New Vegas: Bright Brotherhood, possibly. The Kings? Even though the whole Elvis aspect is VERY secondary to them and they are otherwise a very serious faction. There's Fisto, but sex robots are a real life thing (and will hopefully be fully functional in a few decades, fingers crossed).

For the record, the most "uncalled for" line I've ever saw in New Vegas was "I'm taking this basket of cakes to my grandmother's house", which was funny because it was sarcasm and not literally "YOU ARE PLAYING FALLOUT 2, NOT A ROBOMECH GAME HAHAHA" or random shit like Godfather or Goodfellas lines. The part with the dwarf in Broken Hills felt straight out of Monkey Island.

I honestly thought "too many pop culture references" was a meme, but it was very, very much true. Some of them were actually funny (I mentioned once coming across King Arthur looking for the Holy Hand Grenade, got a laugh out of me when he aimed at the same spot I had aimed for the Holy Hand Greande's location), but most of them are absolutely nonsensical.

New Vegas had the decency of leaving out the wackiest ones for Wild Wasteland encounters.
You can't expect me to treat you seriously when you approach this like "in f2 everything is dumb, but in fnv when a guy gives you a quest to get him a sex robot cause he wants to fuck it and the robot's name is Fisto and it has these funneh lines when you turn it on is all perfectly fine b... b... because right guize". And it's not like you just dug yourself a huge gaping hole, because that's hardly the only totally-not-stupid-fallout-shit thing about only this one quest alone.

Anyway, my point wasn't really about comparing the amount of inanity, I like Fallout and I don't really give that much shit since the stupidity was there from day 1 for all to see. All I'm pointing out is these weird perception disorders you cucksuckers suddenly get when comparing certain games that are much more similar then you'd like to admit.
 
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I am slowly replaying Fallout 2 now. Slowly because it must be around 10th playthrough by now. It's still fucking great. Only boring parts are in beginning until you finally grab a decent firearm, doesn't last long when you're no longer noob at it.
 

Jimmious

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I am slowly replaying Fallout 2 now. Slowly because it must be around 10th playthrough by now. It's still fucking great. Only boring parts are in beginning until you finally grab a decent firearm, doesn't last long when you're no longer noob at it.
Do you use the "rebalancing" mod? I'm thinking of trying that but I want someone to tell me if it's worth it
 

Black Angel

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And what would happen if they had decided that fish was eadible? There is nothing "logical" about this decision it was made arbitrarily made to fit their momentarily made up narrative to explain why there is no fish. It is just as easy to say that some fish are edible in some regions so this is not an argument whatsoever.
Game developers are humans, not gods. What they say is not gospel for anything.
If they're edible, then it would finally justify the existence of fishing villages; and makes one wonder why there's none if fish is edible at the time. I know you mentioned 'fishing villages' to give example of what kind of towns that can be added to the map of Fallout 1, and I'm merely asking if fish is edible at that time considering it was only a 84 years after the nuke hit, and like I mentioned above it was said by one of the NPCs that they caught mutated fish, which is not edible.

TimCain Chris Avellone is there any edible fish at the time of Fallout 1/2? And if not, why there isn't any?

I guess this might happen if you try really, really, really hard to pretend that F1 didn't have a proportionally high number of all the inane references and stupid jokes even in a middle of serious situations and that those things are an integral part of the original Fallout series.
'proportionally high number'? What? You can't be talking about all the easter eggs, because they're rather minimum compared to Fallout 2's. I don't remember most dialogues of Fallout 1 off the top of my head, but I'm sure as hell Fallout 2's got significantly much, MUCH more compared to 1 in terms of inane references and stupid jokes in a middle of serious situations.
 

Sigourn

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You are misrepresenting what happened in FO2. Only 1 ghoul was in a casket for months. It was also meant to be a humorous quest line. Likewise there was only one ghost and the quest is easily missable/ignorable.

Oh, come on. It being "humorous" doesn't make it any less stupid. Just because a quest is easily "missable" (I have to ask what do you even mean by that, it's common practice in RPGs to talk to everyone and it doesn't make much to hear about the ghost of Anna being next to the house) doesn't make it any less real.

There were not pop culture references every fucking step. There too many but spare us the idiotic hyperboles.

Of course there weren't references "every fucking step", but one of the first NPCs you meet in The Den already goes full Joe Pesci on you. The problem aren't the "references", the problem is how uncalled for a lot of them are. Look at the Maltese Falcon, look at "I’m here to kick ass and chew bubblegum... etc.") east of the Hub when fighting the raiders, among others. That phrase in particular has become so ingrained in popular culture few people even know what the reference is (I only found out last year), but something like the Italian NPC repeating lines from Goodfellas for no real reason stands out a lot.

Since you brought up Goris, I think it is pretty clear he is an E.T. reference too. But it would be very different if one of his barks was "Goris phone home".

There was one talking Deathclaw

You mean the Vault filled to the brim with them, and a Mother Deathclaw constantly making more talking Deathclaws?

and how was that any worse than for example the Master in FO 1 who was a weirdly fused human to a Vault Overseer chair/computer?

Both are miracles of science, but the peaceful talking Deathclaws are just silly.

There were exactly one intelligent plant and radscorpion in the game and it was again meant to not be taken too seriously.

That's the issue with FO2 in a nutshell. "It's not meant to be taking seriously", then why the hell add it in the game? I personally dislike the Bright Brotherhood in New Vegas because it's just a pointless faction for just one quest.
 

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