Incline Dominions 4 announced

[you know what time it is]

Numbers aside, what's so deep about it ? The game is simple as fuck, vs ai you just bumrush and its over. In multiplayer "skill" of your opponents is defined by how sperg they are. It doesn't require anything but to learn what counters what, and since its TBS and you can't control battles directly, there's nothing else.

Considering that I'v heard so much about it and I'm always pulling for the underdog (in this case, fairly obscure developer), it's a major disappointment.

 

[Malakal]

Its more of a DF level of difficulty, with loads of stats, units, skills and abilities that are not well documented and with added horrible interface and a lot of micro management. The game itself isnt very complicated but theres the nice aspect of guessing what your opponent will do in battles.

 

[you know what time it is]

Yep. Though in 30-40 minutes DF becomes a completely different game and fun starts to ramp up (it starts faster obviously if you don't count pauses, but i'm a slowpoke and i like elaborate fortress designs), can't say the same about dom4.

 

[Nikolaj]

Numbers aside, what's so deep about it ? The game is simple as fuck, vs ai you just bumrush and its over. In multiplayer "skill" of your opponents is defined by how sperg they are. It doesn't require anything but to learn what counters what, and since its TBS and you can't control battles directly, there's nothing else.

Considering that I'v heard so much about it and I'm always pulling for the underdog (in this case, fairly obscure developer), it's a major disappointment.

You haven't played the game, right? The reason why the game is deep, is not because the rules are difficult, but because of the number of spells, items and units and the way they interact. Learning what counters what isn't as easy as you make it out to be, since you'll often come up against a combination of spells, items and units that all need countering, and depending on the nation you play, you might not have access to the most obvious counters. Also, while you can't control battles directly, setting up and equipping your troops properly is extremely important, and can win or lose the battle regardless of "what counters what".

Sure, you can bumrush the AI, because like in most other strategy games the AI is stupid. At least the AI in Dominions has the excuse of having to compete in what is probably the most asymmetrical strategy game ever made.

Also, the most important aspect in mp games is probably diplomacy. It doesn't matter how good you are if everybody gangs up on you in year 2. Besides that, I'd say that the ability to identify the strengths and weaknesses of a given nation and build a strategy around them (or how to deal with them, in the case of an enemy) is the second most important skill. Actually playing the game ranks well below those two.

 

[you know what time it is]

I'd hardly call this diplomacy, teaming up to get rid of the biggest threat is tactics 101 and in this case it's still based on numbers, in any other strategy i would still have a chance to defend from (if not defeat) a few scrubs that decided to cross me due to my superior skill, quick thinking or any other advantage i have as a player. Here its either A-move or knowledge about counters and army composition. PBeM is making this worse too, since you actually have nigh unlimited time to crunch numbers and go full sperg.

 

[Nikolaj]

I'd hardly call this diplomacy, teaming up to get rid of the biggest threat is tactics 101 and in this case it's still based on numbers, in any other strategy i would still have a chance to defend from (if not defeat) a few scrubs that decided to cross me due to my superior skill, quick thinking or any other advantage i have as a player. Here its either A-move or knowledge about counters and army composition. PBeM is making this worse too, since you actually have nigh unlimited time to crunch numbers and go full sperg.

I don't know what numbers you'd be crunching, since the default setting in Dom4 disables graphs, which means the only information you have on the other players is what your spies can collect and what you can see on the map. Hardly much basis for "going sperg". You should give MP a try before knocking it.

 

[Johannes]

You don't even know what you don't know

 

[Dim]

Depth without complexity is a board game. Do you play alot of those Time? What is a good strategy game in your opinion?
Developers fixed lots of the micromanagement and player sets it at game creation with number of provinces anyway. It did take them 7 years to fix the micro though.
Figuring out which spells are actually useful; that is a real pain.

 

[you know what time it is]

I cant think of a single decent TBS game that is actually good in multiplayer. I have a soft spot for homm 3 (and 3.5) for obvious reasons, but yeah.

In general though ? I guess brood war mp was quite great, but it hardly applies to how i feel about dom4. Don't get me wrong though, all i wanted is to vent a bit, due to reasons mentioned above. It's not a bad game, i'm just disappointed is all.

Actually tried it again with a friend after my last post, alas it's not a game for me.

 

[Malakal]

Civ 4 was really good in mp since it had simultaneous turns and was a good game in general. I fondly remember playing it 3 man mp.

Then there is HoMM3 but it took a looot of time indeed.

 

[TripJack]

I cant think of a single decent TBS game that is actually good in multiplayer.

wat

 

[you know what time it is]

Good - well designed, fairly balanced, high skill ceiling

Good =/= fun (they are not mutually exclusive though), hence why i mentioned heroes

Civ 4 is a good example, i guess 5th Civ sucked so bad that i almost forgot that previous installment was actually quite decent.

 

[coldcrow]

First person I put on ignore on a board. Can't even bother to argue back since he counters his own argument in the same post.
Besides, which strategy game isn't about countering or mounting a devastating attack?

 

[Nikolaj]

Version 4.04 of the manual had a couple of errors (notably in the path booster chart), but they've been corrected now, so people might want to grab the new version.

 

[KoolNoodles]

Anyone who has been on the fence about this brilliant game, either because they have Dom3 or were scared of the price: you can grab it over at Gamersgate for just under $9.

http://www.gamersgate.com/DD-DOM4TA/dominions-4-thrones-of-ascension

 

[Kane]

First person I put on ignore on a board. Can't even bother to argue back since he counters his own argument in the same post.
Besides, which strategy game isn't about countering or mounting a devastating attack?

There are a lot of these people around here.

 

[Renegen]

I'm thinking of grabbing this game, being a big fan of TB strategy and Master of Magic but the indie nature of this game puts me off. Is it really that good of a game if all I'm planning to do is play against the AI?

 

[Berekän]

Consensus seems to be that, no, it isn't worth it to play just against the AI, but there isn't really much hassle in playing a game by email so I think you're really crippling yourself if you plan to only play singleplayer.

 

[KoolNoodles]

I'm thinking of grabbing this game, being a big fan of TB strategy and Master of Magic but the indie nature of this game puts me off. Is it really that good of a game if all I'm planning to do is play against the AI?

I would say that the consensus is it's a much better experience in multiplayer, but not necessarily bad in singleplayer. It just isn't challenging after a brief, albeit steep, learning curve, and singleplayer misses out on one of great aspects of Dominions multiplayer: it plays basically like Diplomacy(the old school backstab political game), unless teams are set.

If you are a fan of TB strategy and MoM you are doing yourself a disservice by not getting this for $9. Way back in the day when Dom2 and Dom3 were out, they retailed at $50-$60, and never changed. People still bought them up. The old great gaming magazine Computer Gaming World considered the Dominions series to be one of the definitive strategy games ever made. The classic Tom vs. Bruce columns illustrates this. You can read either their original Dominions 2 game here: http://www.1up.com/features/tom-bruce-11?pager.offset=0&cId=

Or the newer Dominions 4 game here: http://www.tomvsbruce.com/index.php/2014/01/08/tom-vs-bruce-dominions-4/

They are both silly, fun, and a good idea of how a game of Dominions feels to play. And that's important. It's a game that rewards thematic investment.

It's also a strategy game that still practically requires you to read the manual to know what's going on, and even then you are only touching the tip of the iceberg. Something is learned every time you start or finish a game, even for veteran players. Sure it's an indy game, the graphics are really old(but there are a ton of them!), and it may seem clunky, but get past all those superficial characteristics, and you'll find one of the great strategy games of our time, that thankfully keeps on ticking.

 

[Malakal]

I'm thinking of grabbing this game, being a big fan of TB strategy and Master of Magic but the indie nature of this game puts me off. Is it really that good of a game if all I'm planning to do is play against the AI?

Dont buy it if you want to play sp against the AI. Only buy it if you want to play mp using PBEM. But read this thread http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/dominion-disciple-game-sign-up-now.88964/unread first to learn why PBEM is shit and therefore you shouldn't buy this game ever at least until they implement a working mp.

 

[Arcks]

I'm thinking of grabbing this game, being a big fan of TB strategy and Master of Magic but the indie nature of this game puts me off. Is it really that good of a game if all I'm planning to do is play against the AI?

Dont buy it if you want to play sp against the AI. Only buy it if you want to play mp using PBEM. But read this thread http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/dominion-disciple-game-sign-up-now.88964/unread first to learn why PBEM is shit and therefore you shouldn't buy this game ever at least until they implement a working mp.

Whuh? I've always played dominions 3 without pbem with my mates. So I'm not sure what your problem is.

 

[Malakal]

I'm thinking of grabbing this game, being a big fan of TB strategy and Master of Magic but the indie nature of this game puts me off. Is it really that good of a game if all I'm planning to do is play against the AI?

Dont buy it if you want to play sp against the AI. Only buy it if you want to play mp using PBEM. But read this thread http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/dominion-disciple-game-sign-up-now.88964/unread first to learn why PBEM is shit and therefore you shouldn't buy this game ever at least until they implement a working mp.

Whuh? I've always played dominions 3 without pbem with my mates. So I'm not sure what your problem is.

Try playing PBEM with random people then ask me what my problem is. There is a reason why even the worst game can be fun with friends.

 

[Malakal]

I'm thinking of grabbing this game, being a big fan of TB strategy and Master of Magic but the indie nature of this game puts me off. Is it really that good of a game if all I'm planning to do is play against the AI?

Dont buy it if you want to play sp against the AI. Only buy it if you want to play mp using PBEM. But read this thread http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/dominion-disciple-game-sign-up-now.88964/unread first to learn why PBEM is shit and therefore you shouldn't buy this game ever at least until they implement a working mp.

It took a while to get the game going but the game is running fine now and as far as I can tell all involved are having a good time. I certainly am.

Right and one turn is what, 30 hours? 48? And you waited what, 3 weeks? 4? And how many times has turns not fired on time by now? Server issues? How many players have not submitted their turns on time? Thats a good working mp for you?

Theres absolutely no excuse for tolerating this kind of mp.

 

[Mortmal]

So far missed turns on this game have not been cause of server issues. Anyway if people have problems i can put t on hold just have to ask before. I dont know why people still asking if it worth buying, especially at this price , if you cant afford 9$ you probably have much bigger issues than that.

Yes its indie, yes it looks 8 bit crap and yes its the best thing ever done , even agaisnt the AI its not worse than usual strategy game.

 

[Nikolaj]

Right and one turn is what, 30 hours? 48? And you waited what, 3 weeks? 4? And how many times has turns not fired on time by now? Server issues? How many players have not submitted their turns on time? Thats a good working mp for you?

Theres absolutely no excuse for tolerating this kind of mp.

Networked mp sucks because everything moves too fast and the people I play with keep dropping out of the game. Oh, and sometimes there are server issues. Don't buy Starcraft!