Incline Dominions 4 announced

[Malakal]

Oh and by the way, scorpions are HORRIBLE patrollers due to their abysmal precision.

 

[JohnTheRevelator]

Hel doesn't have the strongest research for sure But your recruitables can forge Dwarven Hammers, Owl Quills and Skull Mentors without any help from Pretender. Once you get that forging factory up and running, you won't need as much researchers as other nations do. Just equip everybody with Skull + Quill, and you'll be fine.

Doh! Of course, you can forge research items easily. Not much reason to take magic scales. As I said I'm not an expert.

 

[Grimwulf]

As I said I'm not an expert.

You are not fooling me. I've seen some of your battles.

 

[Malakal]

You are obviously doing something wrong because I fought EA Xibalba in another pbem as Berytos and he was a very tough nut to crack with over 500 ozelotls and demon bats at around turn 40

This is easy. In most cases they are not needed though - raiding is going just fine with chaff-only. So you keep them in stealth in case your enemy brings a doomstack to the table.

He coudlnt fight off my 200 seir with normal bats, actually you seen ANY normal unit try fight seir? Not a good idea.

This was easy before the patch. Now EA Xib research sucks giant balls.

The game is ongoing both pre and post patch. Granted Xibalba is dead now, I killed it. But then again seir.

 

[JohnTheRevelator]

It's my second PBEM dude. Last one was first Codex Dom 4 PBEM which we didn't even finish cause llama just threw errors refusing to process turn. Well I was on brink of getting stomped by Johannes anyway...

 

[Malakal]

Hel doesn't have the strongest research for sure But your recruitables can forge Dwarven Hammers, Owl Quills and Skull Mentors without any help from Pretender. Once you get that forging factory up and running, you won't need as much researchers as other nations do. Just equip everybody with Skull + Quill, and you'll be fine.

Doh! Of course, you can forge research items easily. Not much reason to take magic scales. As I said I'm not an expert.

Helheim is very weak on the research front but at least your research slaves can be used as combat troops what cant be said for many nations with literally useless researchers.

I'd go magic3 and hope for good indies or even stupid shamans for research as Helheim. That or massed research items.

 

[Grimwulf]

You are obviously doing something wrong because I fought EA Xibalba in another pbem as Berytos and he was a very tough nut to crack with over 500 ozelotls and demon bats at around turn 40

This is easy. In most cases they are not needed though - raiding is going just fine with chaff-only. So you keep them in stealth in case your enemy brings a doomstack to the table.

He coudlnt fight off my 200 seir with normal bats, actually you seen ANY normal unit try fight seir? Not a good idea.

I wasn't speaking about any specific enemies. Berytos is another story. And AFAIK, Xib in your other pbem took W9 as a bless, no? It really doesn't work too well IMO.

The game is ongoing both pre and post patch. Granted Xibalba is dead now, I killed it. But then again seir.

Pre and post patch games are kinda ruined for all Xib players. You took low magic scales expecting research to ba an easy walk, and then cought a backstab from the devs.

 

[Malakal]

Yes, he took W9 which turns his ozelotls into murder machines but I do find it pointless - ozelotls are murder machines anyway, what with three strong attacks and being flying demons. He did kill off Kailasa but Kailasa is notorious for being bad in Dom 4. 15 of his blessed ozeltols could murder a kited Melquart in one turn.

I'd have to think about a good bless, your F9 isnt the best idea either tho. Maybe some minors? Dunno.

 

[JohnTheRevelator]

I've seen some of your battles.

What battles did you see anyway? Because I don't remember having any serious battles ... since showdown with hoverdog. I was just popping raw's raiding parties, then rolled over his territory with army entirely too big for task at hand... I smell bullshit.

 

[Malakal]

I've seen some of your battles.

What battles did you see anyway? Because I don't remember having any serious battles ... since showdown with hoverdog. I was just popping raw's raiding parties, then rolled over his territory with army entirely too big for task at hand... I smell bullshit.

He is trying to lull you into a false sense of security and then BAM - you got bat'd.

 

[Grimwulf]

Yes, he took W9 which turns his ozelotls into murder machines but I do find it pointless - ozelotls are murder machines anyway, what with three strong attacks and being flying demons. He did kill off Kailasa but Kailasa is notorious for being bad in Dom 4. 15 of his blessed ozeltols could murder a kited Melquart in one turn.

I'd have to think about a good bless, your F9 isnt the best idea either tho. Maybe some minors? Dunno.

F9 made early wars even easier (small stacks of Jade Maidens, Sacred Scorps and Beast Bats can annihilate anything under F9 without help of Ozelotls or spellcaster). But it doesn't work in the long run. Hey, I had only one day to come up with idea about a nation I've never played before. Coz I was working on my map, and then raw comes out and "Fuck you, Grimwulf! TC goes to thesheep. You get Xibalba. Fuck you again and good luck". F9 seemed tolerable from quick tests.

I've seen some of your battles.

What battles did you see anyway? Because I don't remember having any serious battles ... since showdown with hoverdog. I was just popping raw's raiding parties, then rolled over his territory with army entirely too big for task at hand... I smell bullshit.

The one with a shitton of boars was the last I've seen. Let's be friends and never fight. Like, forever?

 

[Kane]

Hel doesn't have the strongest research for sure But your recruitables can forge Dwarven Hammers, Owl Quills and Skull Mentors without any help from Pretender. Once you get that forging factory up and running, you won't need as much researchers as other nations do. Just equip everybody with Skull + Quill, and you'll be fine.

What do you think I was trying to do?

 

[Johannes]

Pre and post patch games are kinda ruined for all Xib players. You took low magic scales expecting research to ba an easy walk, and then cought a backstab from the devs.

Does it really matter for that? The paths on the mages didn't change, so ideal magic scales are more or less the same. The researchers are pretty average, not always too useful in combat though. But that's p. common. Otoh those fuckers fly, unlike their shit researcher counterparts in other nations. With the price correction you just don't have as much money to buy chaff with as you would've otherwise.



I think the best Xibalba patrollers are simply the cheap batman chaff, at least early on. Their patrol value is a bit lower than that of a 7g militia, due to the low precision (patrol strength is somehow calculated from move speed and precision, with +1 from flying which the xibalban malus cancels out), but they are actually useful otherwise unlike human militia, you'd buy them anyway. Then there's simply the question, how much hunting/patrolling do you need done? When the unrest rises too high, simply fly the hunter to cast Imps or Break the First Soul in a battle, or just fly to another province to hunt. Even if you miss a hunting turn here and there you've got the hunting bonus to make up for that in comparison to other nations. It's also something to consider to simply hunt and ignore the unrest, you'll fail sometimes and lose some gold, but you save up a lot on not having to hire patrols.

What really makes it a great nation is the universal flight, most of all (and stealth). Like imagine Caelum that'd have passable melee troops. I'm sure managing a lot of it can be annoying, but the power's certainly there.

 

[JohnTheRevelator]

Actually does anyone have some kind of nation tier list? I would be interested in seeing what people consider good or bad and how wrong my own perceptions are.

 

[Kane]

Actually does anyone have some kind of nation tier list? I would be interested in seeing what people consider good or bad and how wrong my own perceptions are.

i saw a guy who did a survey on that question, no idea what came of it

 

[Joined on the 4th of July]

I stumbled on them just the other day:

https://sum1won.wordpress.com/about/

results

 

[Grimwulf]

Pre and post patch games are kinda ruined for all Xib players. You took low magic scales expecting research to ba an easy walk, and then cought a backstab from the devs.

Does it really matter for that? The paths on the mages didn't change, so ideal magic scales are more or less the same. The researchers are pretty average, not always too useful in combat though. But that's p. common. Otoh those fuckers fly, unlike their shit researcher counterparts in other nations. With the price correction you just don't have as much money to buy chaff with as you would've otherwise.



I think the best Xibalba patrollers are simply the cheap batman chaff, at least early on. Their patrol value is a bit lower than that of a 7g militia, due to the low precision (patrol strength is somehow calculated from move speed and precision, with +1 from flying which the xibalban malus cancels out), but they are actually useful otherwise unlike human militia, you'd buy them anyway. Then there's simply the question, how much hunting/patrolling do you need done? When the unrest rises too high, simply fly the hunter to cast Imps or Break the First Soul in a battle, or just fly to another province to hunt. Even if you miss a hunting turn here and there you've got the hunting bonus to make up for that in comparison to other nations. It's also something to consider to simply hunt and ignore the unrest, you'll fail sometimes and lose some gold, but you save up a lot on not having to hire patrols.

What really makes it a great nation is the universal flight, most of all (and stealth). Like imagine Caelum that'd have passable melee troops. I'm sure managing a lot of it can be annoying, but the power's certainly there.

Hard to argue with anything, but Xibalba is still a bitch. Strong and everything, but still.

Also, Ah Nakom is a trap. Using it early on for blood hunting, before you get Call of the Winds / Cross Breeding patrols usually results in constant 50+ unrest. I don't know how you manage to hunt and ignore unrest, because I usually get roughly half the virgins when unrest rises to 50+.

Other blood hunters are expensive. Xibalba needs dat gold. It's all manageble, of course, it's just feels wrong. Like you play the nation and get this feeling that it's not how it's supposed to be played.

Maybe it's just not my cup of tea.

 

[Kane]

results

I think what can be gleaned from this is that most people actually don't know how strong or weak a nation is.

And Xibalba troops sound like someone is making porn.

 

[Grimwulf]

results

EA Xibalba made me giggle.

Actually, Xib in every age got pretty much the same result: DON'T CARE KNOW

 

[Malakal]

results

I think what can be gleaned from this is that most people actually don't know how strong or weak a nation is.

And Xibalba troops sound like someone is making porn.

Nope, its actually p spot on and I agree with most results there.

 

[Kane]

results

I think what can be gleaned from this is that most people actually don't know how strong or weak a nation is.

And Xibalba troops sound like someone is making porn.

Nope, its actually p spot on and I agree with most results there.

It's not that I disagree with them, but every single nation has at least around 30% "i don't know votes", and most have over 50%. That's a lot of blackboxing bro.

 

[Malakal]

People dont vote for what they havent played. I think Pangaea is a little low tho.

 

[Johannes]

My rough tier list for EA (land nations):

GREAT
Xibalba
TNN
Sauromatia
Lanka

GOOD
Pangaea
Mictlan
Fomoria
Berytos

AVERAGE
TC
Arco
Ermor
Agartha
Machaka
C'tis
Caelum
Vanheim
Helheim
Niefelheim
Hinnom
Kailasa

BAD
Ulm
Ur
Marverni
Abysia
Yomi


Mostly judging by how confident I'd feel about winning a ~8 player FFA with them. Thing is though that most nations in EA are actually pretty damn solid. In some sense I feel I'm underrating Vanheim and TC for example, which would be scary neighbors to have early on - but their cap centricness makes them kinda awkward to actually win games reliably, even if they're good nations to reliably grow big with. A truly strong nation doesn't have to rush against time, but can hold back and turtle for a moment if it fits the situation. But when I haven't thoroughly tested all the nations it's hard to say... Maybe I should put Arco, or Caelum, or whoever higher but it is what it is now, nothing too serious.

Change the game type and the list'd change a lot too, make it a duel or a disciple game and it's different. Whether you get 13 or 20 provinces per player, it's different. Context is the most important thing to keep in mind.

 

[Kane]

Version 4.20
This update focuses on the underwater part of Dominions. A new underwater nation is available as well as a bunch of new underwater pretenders to choose from. Many of the old underwater nations have also got some new recruitment options. There has also been some work to make the AI better as well as more modding, more random events and the usual bug fixes.

Game
New nation: Therodos
UW resources increased 25%
Press 'r' when designing pretender to get a random design
Dominion less likely to spread across sea-land borders
Horror chances altered
Being dead will make horror marks fade away over time
New summon spells: Flame Jelly, Bishop Fish
Oceanian lore rewritten
Oceania turmoil in coastal provinces, order in land/sea provinces
Haliades replaces Bishop Fish as oceanian priests
Initiates of the Deep, deep seer: lore remake
Witness of the Deep, Soldier of the Deep
Capricorn and Siren coastal recruits and chaos rebate
New unique items for Marignon and R'lyeh
Improved magic item info
UW pretender rebates and nation restrictions
Dagon remade (grab and swallow instead of trample)
New story events
Save and exit also marks turn as unfinished
Pelagian/oceanian name lists
Replaced some iron with meteoritic iron
Starting position improvements
Mummy Nazca Arena fix
Chakram flysprite
Double flysprite bug removed
Academy underneath didn't produce lab
Rainbow enchantment now affected buy own luck effect
Bodyguard mrl bonus bug fixed
Philosopher icon
Fullscreen resolution defaults to desktop resolution instead of highest
Updated tip of the turn
Some new bronze and iron weapons and armors
Some more units got weapons and armors changed
Giants reanimated into correct shape
Berserk bless (war-dance)
Lanka description now mentions blood hunt bonus/malus in turmoil/order
Couldn't cast spells if you had two 'life long protection' items
Send Dream Horror castable at UW provinces
Assassins must be stealthy to be able to assassinate
The four Balams are now unique
EA/MA Pelagia nation descr changes
Pelagian Mystic
Iron armaments rust in the sea
Rust permanent until repaired
Damaged weapons/armors lower dmg/prot
New poptypes: Ichtyid shaman, Bone Tribe barbarians
New mermen/ichtyid sites
Mermage & Pelagian Mermage remake
Pelagian Explorer
Enkidu Headhunter & Bone Tribe Headhunter Club -> Skull Club
EA Pelagia Hero
Turtle Warriors Javelin -> Coral Tipped Javelin
New Pelagian coastal recruits
Mermage/priest sprite remade
New 'rusty armor' icons
UW indeps a bit weaker
Lower throne no longer appears UW
Divine Glyph and Baphomet magic beings
Can't compete in arena while sneaking
Ancient kraken doesn't lose Ink attack if equipped with weapons
Abomination doesn't lose tentacles if equipped with copper arm and weapons
Macaw and Condor got headslots
New switch: --listnations
Some new throne defenders can appear now
Some nations got pretender discounts
Many typo, stat and event fixes
Non-commander communion possible
Theurg Communicant -> not commander
Theurg Communicant rec-limit 1
Theurg Communicant cost 35 -> 50
Option --partamount didn't work properly
Battlefield spell didn't affect everyone in enormous armies
Particles effects didn't look properly in huge battles
Minor memory leak fixed
National underwater PD takes precedence for local UW PD
Faster battle deployment for huge skirmish armies
Murdering Winter less effective vs commanders
Murdering Winter cost 50 -> 40
Flames from the Sky cost 35 -> 30
Thetis Blessing research level 9 -> 7
Therodos got proper names
Music can now start with a rare tune
Sirens are cheaper to recruit when Lure of the Deep is up
Looming Hell slightly harder to defend against
Vengeful Water less effective and cost 50 -> 70
More ability modifiers printed
Shambler base cost 25 -> 20
Cannot try to send more than 32 messages
Friendly Currents didn't affect encumbrance properly
Soul Leech and Consume Soul cannot be repelled
New network option (--maxholdups) to run over serial stallers
New network option (--timeleft) to set nbr of hour to first host
Auto refresh for html statuspage
Auspex could be pathed though the sea, fixed
Looming Hell vs stealthy didn't work properly
Berytian Melqarts reduced blood sacrifice
Land/Water shape recruitment fix

AI
Certain nations more likely to go for good bless effects
Smarter pretender god design
Can make pretenders with high levels of blood magic now
Fixed bug where AI for blood and death nations could waste up to 80 DP
More likely to buy holy units when having a good bless
Army and PD strength evaluation improved
Higher score for scripted spells

Modding
#aigoodbless, #aimusthavemag
#aifirenation, #aiairnation, #aiwaternation, #aiearthnation
#aiastralnation, #aideathnation, #ainaturenation, #aibloodnation
Deserter abilities now work for non commanders too
New unit mod commands: #incscale, #decscale, #reform, #domrec, #haltheretic
New item mod commands: #incscale, #decscale, #reform, #haltheretic
New nation mod command: #noforeignrec
Eventmodding #req_notnation didn't work
#blessbers, #uwheat, #hpoverslow, #poisonskin, #xploss, #enchrebate50

Linux
no multi processes on low memory machines

 

[pakoito]

Mofos are mostly ritual invoke, with only 3 commanders in cap, one being slow to recruit. Base commander invokes require D1, but only the slow guy has a 25 + (25 * 10%) of getting it.

Priests can call spectres.